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 The Palace or the Way?

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Multi-Facets

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PostSubject: The Palace or the Way?   Fri May 15, 2015 3:37 am

Is there truly no happy medium there? Is there no way to choose both?

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PostSubject: Re: The Palace or the Way?   Fri May 15, 2015 3:42 am

@Multi-Facets wrote:
Is there truly no happy medium there? Is there no way to choose both?

I'd say there isn't. The Way always seemed to be about freedom, to hunt, running free. The Palace is about being imprisoned (within the walls of the Palace), exploring, immortality... It seems like two very different life styles.

It's like people who enjoy City Life, and those who enjoy Country Life. You still have a home. But one is surrounded by concrete walls, the other is surrounded by open fields.
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PostSubject: Re: The Palace or the Way?   Fri May 15, 2015 11:30 am

Keeping the Palace in the Holt was a way to have both-- but that could only ever have been temporary.

Being in the palace, and immortal, has to mean more than some sort of imprisonment. It seems to be very fulfilling to many of the elves... moreso than living outside.

Living in a city is not about imprisonment- it's about human interaction, things going on around you, culture, stimulation, the ability to do a lot of different things- from movies, to plays, to museums, to concerts, to bars, to dance clubs, to any kind of food you might want, etc... on any day you might like. It's about career and motion and enjoying the business around you. And we can always drive to nature. I don't know that I would chose to live in the city if I couldn't.

What do the elves get out of the Palace that is equivalent? Right now, they can also "drive to nature"-- what would it be like for them if they could not?

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Tymber

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PostSubject: Re: The Palace or the Way?   Fri May 15, 2015 11:44 am

@Lunakat wrote:

Keeping the Palace in the Holt was a way to have both-- but that could only ever have been temporary.
Being in the palace, and immortal, has to mean more than some sort of imprisonment. It seems to be very fulfilling to many of the elves... moreso than living outside.
Living in a city is not about imprisonment- it's about human interaction, things going on around you, culture, stimulation, the ability to do a lot of different things- from movies, to plays, to museums, to concerts, to bars, to dance clubs, to any kind of food you might want, etc... on any day you might like. It's about career and motion and enjoying the business around you. And we can always drive to nature. I don't know that I would chose to live in the city if I couldn't.
What do the elves get out of the Palace that is equivalent? Right now, they can also "drive to nature"-- what would it be like for them if they could not?

Heh - I live in the city. What I had meant, for folks like Wolfriders, who are used to just roaming the woods at their will, would probably not feel at home (and perhaps a little imprisoned) if they're very much into "The Way" (such as Strongbow).

As for what's in the Palace that's like the city? (Granted, I am so far behind in my reading and forgotten everything except OQ, KotBW and SaBM) - but there's the constant tickling of magic, the "speaking" to the spirits of the dead, the Scroll of Colors is like a movie theater, and that's just what we have seen (or that I remember). I am sure a Palace that huge must have had much more, yet unseen, that the High Ones did as they were zipping around space for kicks and giggles.
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PostSubject: Re: The Palace or the Way?   Fri May 15, 2015 11:51 am

I think there will be some who'll try to make a new Way, the middle-way. Skywise most of all, he'll want to create the perfect mix between safety and excitement.

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PostSubject: Re: The Palace or the Way?   Sat May 16, 2015 2:55 am

Im not exactly providing an answer here, just an abstract thought.

I have been spending a lot of time attributing the Magic the Gathering Color Wheel to Elf Quest. (Sorry for all thr caps! Smile

As such, the question of the Palace (White) and the Way (Green) becomes interesting.

The color wheel has five distinct colors arranged in a particular fashion. These colors represent personalituly or intent. For example Black is selfish and parasitic. The colors are so arranged so that "enemies" are across from each other and "allies" are next to each other. Green and White are allies, in that their goals of preserving life are similar, but they go about it slightly different: Green is about creatures, wild instinct, growth, while White is about preservation through laws, rules, and control.

The colors can be split or looked at as a spectrum: the boundry between white and green is hazy: blurred as the goals align, but in the case of Elf Quest, the Wolfriders are on the Red side of green, where freedom and emotion are strong. The High Ones, while protective, were explorers, seeking knowledge, which is on the Blue side of white. Guess what? Blue and Red are enemies ( as in they dont work well together. Blue is about controlling all others through manipulation of learned information and planning, and Red is about chaos, freedom, emotion, and impulsiveness.) As such, you end up with conflict between these seemingly friendly Elves. Not that they ARE enemies, just that their specific goals clash. Wolfriders would have to give up a little freedom and instinct, and the Palace folk would need to strive a little more for growth.


Back to EQ, though, I got the impression that Timmain knew ahead of time what she was doing for the Wolfriders, and I thought it was stated "my gift to you is that you are children of this world" and that they would have the choice to release their spirit to the world or the palace, whatever they felt most pulled to. I had thought she knew full well that this would alienate them from the Palace, but at the time establishing them in the World of Two Moons was far more important with the Palace lost ( and from her perspective at the time, unusable permanently). To me, this says the Wolfriders need to fight for their place in the world, as its as much theirs as the creatures they share blood with.

I further think they should pull out the stops: campagn for aid from friendly humans, then use the power of the palace to put their enemies in their place before marking their territory and shutting their enemies out. This wont happen, but its the only way they will find any peace.

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PostSubject: Re: The Palace or the Way?   Sun May 17, 2015 4:23 am

@TrollHammer wrote:
Im not exactly providing an answer here, just an abstract thought.

I have been spending a lot of time attributing the Magic the Gathering Color Wheel to Elf Quest. (Sorry for all thr caps! Smile

As such, the question of the Palace (White) and the Way (Green) becomes interesting.

The color wheel has five distinct colors arranged in a particular fashion. These colors represent personalituly or intent. For example Black is selfish and parasitic.  The colors are so arranged so that "enemies" are across from each other and "allies" are next to each other.  Green and White are allies, in that their goals of preserving life are similar, but they go about it slightly different: Green is about creatures, wild instinct, growth, while White is about preservation through laws, rules, and control.

The colors can be split or looked at as a spectrum: the boundry between white and green is hazy: blurred as the goals align, but in the case of Elf Quest, the Wolfriders are on the Red side of green, where freedom and emotion are strong. The High Ones, while protective, were explorers, seeking knowledge, which is on the Blue side of white.  Guess what? Blue and Red are enemies ( as in they dont work well together. Blue is about controlling all others through manipulation of learned information and planning, and Red is about chaos, freedom, emotion, and impulsiveness.)  As such, you end up with conflict between these seemingly friendly Elves.  Not that they ARE enemies, just that their specific goals clash. Wolfriders would have to give up a little freedom and instinct, and the Palace folk would need to strive a little more for growth.


Back to EQ, though, I got the impression that Timmain knew ahead of time what she was doing for the Wolfriders, and I thought it was stated "my gift to you is that you are children of this world" and that they would have the choice to release their spirit to the world or the palace, whatever they felt most pulled to.  I had thought she knew full well that this would alienate them from the Palace, but at the time establishing them in the World of Two Moons was far more important with the Palace lost ( and from her perspective at the time, unusable permanently).  To me, this says the Wolfriders need to fight for their place in the world, as its as much theirs as the creatures they share blood with.  

I further think they should pull out the stops: campagn for aid from friendly humans, then use the power of the palace to put their enemies in their place before marking their territory and shutting their enemies out.  This wont happen, but its the only way they will find any peace.

Interesting thoughts Hammer. But you left out one thing the color green also means Hope. So maybe there's hope to be found for all those concerned.

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PostSubject: Re: The Palace or the Way?   Sun May 17, 2015 5:47 pm

@Redhead Ember wrote:
I think there will be some who'll try to make a new Way, the middle-way. Skywise most of all, he'll want to create the perfect mix between safety and excitement.

Basically bungee-jumping Suspect (was my first thought)
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PostSubject: Re: The Palace or the Way?   Mon May 18, 2015 2:49 am

I Wonder why it has to be an absolute choice? And... is the Wolfriders way the only option? Wavedancers way, Go-Back's way?

It hits me that living in Palace is becoming more and more like living in Blue Mountain; imprissoned, like Tymber said. And... I don't know, isn't that what the elders of the Wolfriders, Treestump, Clearbrook, Strongbow and Moonshade as well, along With Arroree were trying to avoid? (From right before Cutter and Rayek had their battle)
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PostSubject: Re: The Palace or the Way?   Mon May 18, 2015 2:03 pm

Had a thought on the way to work.  Several of the wolfriders, throughout their history, barely clung to the High Ones as more than an exclaimation and to a degree it could be interpreted that those that felt the pull of the palace left with Two Spear. Those that stayed behind didn't seem to feel any pull to the palace until after they were already close to it (years later).  The tribe split was much more complex than that (indeed, I can't even remember the story clearly, I'm just drawing a parallel between the Go Backs that were driven to go back and (unknowingly) shed their wolf blood, and the wolfriders that stayed with their wolves...) (it should also be noted, I'm not 'in the now' with the series, not having the recent issues)

(EDIT: Just brushed up on Two-Spear, at least the last issue and a little in Kahvi... I found it a little strange that they were shunning magic but seeking it out in the cave. This (and the moniker 'Go back') may have lead me to feel more strongly that they were seeking the palace out, at least subliminally. I still think this is worthy of note, that Two-Spear took several with him in a quest to seek out the home and relics of the High Ones, and those that stayed were more 'bound to the land'.)

Anyway, from a standpoint of 'who would stay where' or 'who would choose what', the 'middle bloods' would be just as content in the forest, listening about the Palace from a storyteller over a pile of dreamberries.  Those with less wolf blood (or none at all) would be drawn to the Palace more strongly (and those with high wolf blood had already left and bonded stronger to nature anyway).

The only one that I can see having a major issue with a choice would be Cutter: He strives strongly for both the Way and for progress and safety for his extended kin... as being one of the story's main protagonists we are jammed in the middle of things from his perspective in a lot of ways, and the only way I have to resolve it is to just see what happens.  Perhaps there won't even be a choice (and I'm only surmising what I have brushed with here and there by comments others have made, I need to get back into reading the current issues).  In a way, it's more fun not knowing what will happen next!

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