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manga

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:54 am

@Nightsea wrote:
If that was a joke about Petalwing, I totally missed it...even after a reading it twice.  pale

Petalwing, showing Ekuar and Rayek where to find the Forbidden Grove, chirps "Petalwing take good care of Sharpdark Highthing and Shiny-Head Highthing!"

Rayek promptly responds "Ekuar, if I were free to choose... I'd ask you to kill me -- NOW."

It's the kind of levity that Wendy has used before. In fact, a similar part of one of my fanfics was once praised for being Wendy-like and I was pleased that I'd "caught" her style so well.

However, here it's a jarring note. Did we just not see that he is in fact free to choose, and if that's the case this is a moment of gravity akin to when he took the Palace to the future? Somehow I can't see Treestump slapping Cutter on the shoulder and saying "Well, at least we don't have to listen to Petalwing's singing now!"
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:01 am

Holy moley, guys! My Elfquest dream came true!

Months ago - maybe a year - I dreamed that Rayek had done something monumentally bad - like something written by an 11-year old Cutter fan with an axe to grind - and I was writing an email to Wendy that started "What. the. HELL?!!" when I woke up.

I was so glad it was just a dream... But apparently it wasn't.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:05 pm

Laughing Pike Manga!

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:31 pm

@manga wrote:

However, here it's a jarring note. Did we just not see that he is in fact free to choose

I found that strange, too. That's what makes me think Rayek knew Winnie wouldn't submit to healing without a fight.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:28 pm

The moment with Rayek was handled poorly. I really liked the build up I even liked the concept. Done well it could have been a really interesting moment for his character-- maybe a moment of truth or of facing yourself. But it was just over so fast with the bare minimum of explanation and no one reacting to this monumental decision he just made-- for himself and another individual. And Ekuar just being all smiley-happy and dottering along after him caused me to lose respect for Ekuar. Ekuar used to be Rayek's mentor, loyal support and moral compass. Now Ekuar just looks like an enabler.

And the joke about Petalwing falls flat for exactly the reason Manga stated. Rayek absolutely has a choice. And he made a despicable one. Besides, it really doesn't matter now if he dies or if someone kills him-- since there is no danger from Winnowil anymore in the way there was. All that his death would mean is that Winnowil could get healed in the Palace. So... if someone killed him now that might not even be a bad thing. Ergo-- it' a terrible joke that just highlights how wrong the situation he chose is. And you know that's not deliberate on the part of the writers. So it isn't funny at all. It's just uncomfortable. The joke just makes it look like he's in extreme denial. And so is everyone else.

The Skywise-Timmain thing doesn't bother me. It's been in development for decades. Even the dream he had about Tier in Ember's tribe indicated he didn't view Timmain primarily as a wolf. And everything that has happened to his character so far in Final Quest has been a set up for it. First, they killed off or paired up all his remaining girlfriends-- even Aroree.

(Side note: It's hard to believe that, after desiring to commit suicide to be with her, Windkin is so content now to be elsewhere. I don't mind him hooking up with Aroree, since a one night stand would not necessarily detract from his long term relationship. But-- he appears to have not come back. At least if Ahdri's statement to Two Edge is valid. And yeah, I get that he wanted less to die to be with Ahdri, than to simply end his life out of ennui-- but still, he said it.)

So... anyways. The Skywise-Timmain thing doesn't bother me. I get that some people are bothered that he's essentially down to shag his uber-great grandmother... but I don't care about that either. It wouldn't be a concept that bothered the elves. I mean-- keep in mind that Strongbow and Moonshade were originally going to be mother and son... but also lifemates. They nixed that because it was too icky for audiences to swallow. Whatever. With Skywise and Timmain-- there have been enough generations in between that they aren't that closely related anymore. It would be more like hooking up with your distant cousin. Besides, if you look at it that way-- all the Wolfriders are equally related, so none of them should get involved. They are all distant cousins.

I just wish a little more focus had been given too it. There was all this build up for what should have been a monumental moment-- and then, wham-bam, it was over. Just like with Rayek.

I think I agree with whoever said it earlier. The problem with this story isn't the events that happen. It's the pacing at which they happen. The prelude, so far, has had the best pacing. And secondly the early issues focusing on Ember worked because they focused on two main characters- Ember and Teir. The rest of Final Quest is jumping around and giving everyone else equal time... which doesn't really work. It makes the story feel incoherent. I think it would work better if, instead of a dozen things happening at once, maybe three characters were chosen to be the main focus for a while. And everyone else could satellite around them. But storywise, this is like a painting with no real composition-- no first and second read/center of focus. Or a meal with all, equivalently portioned, side dishes. What's the actual meal? You don't know where to look. Yes, it's a little of everything... but that's just confusing.


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PostSubject: Fixed it! ;D   Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:56 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:07 pm

We all wish!

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:24 pm

In "Siege," Rayek said "She tricked me... mocked me... even in joining!"

This spin on "Rogue's Curse" makes me feel like Wendy was tricking and mocking Rayek fans in "Rogue's Curse."  The whole time we were following and feeling along with him, sympathizing with his defeats and hoping for a happy ending (whether or not that meant him with Winnowill, at least on my end of things) - and it was all a tale of tragedy on scale with "Kings of the Broken Wheel."

When it seemed it was his karmic pay-back for the years Cutter suffered, it was one thing. But now it's just the tally of suffering he's inflicted on someone else.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:54 pm

I completely agree. She decimated his character in one fell swoop.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:23 am

Is Snakeskin thinking of giving his chieftainship to someone else? When the Palace pod came for him, he mentioned he wasn't sure how long he's going to qualify as a chief. Or is he thinking of leaving with the Palace and giving leadership of the Wavedancers to someone who can keep all the different tribes together?

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:52 am

That's foreshadowing, Angrif's fleet is going to kill most of the Wavedancers (hey, all the Wavedancer, who matter are safely away at the party!*), hence, there'll be no tribe left he could lead. I wonder how they will explain, that the palace can't come to the rescue (or maybe that's part of hare hare Timmain's design of no-palace-pick-ups)




*Brill's sisters and former lover are thrown in for a good measure of tragedy

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:52 am

I have a scene in my head where Timmain comes out headed towards Skywise, sees Cutter and BAM! Skywise yells "I'm so sick of this! It's always you!" And goes for Cutters throat. I don't really have any desire for Cutter and Timmain to be together. I guess I just resist the idea of Timmain and Skywise because we've been spoon fed it so long. I really want something else to happen. I just don't feel those two as a couple, but I don't feel much for any relationship in this story.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:46 am

I think Timmain should be a mother figure but somehow she comes across cold and distant. It's hard to relate to her. It's not clear what her intentions are, and it is becoming harder to believe that those intentions are benign.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:13 pm

She comes off lacking in empathy most of the time, which is why she's perceived as cold/distant. I realize she's got that alien and wolf thing going on so she's going to be a little weird anyway, but in general it's just emotionally lacking. I still can't get over the whole NO PODS, and how those who are somehow able to get to the palace with find ME thing. It's hard to see a character's motivation as anything but questionable when it's already lacking in empathy and then says weird ass things like that.

Anyone ever see the V Series remake? It was SO BAD at times, but I LOVED IT because it was kind of hilarious. Anna, the visitor queen, reminds me of Timmain, how she keeps talking about her BLISS. And has everyone on the ship going around in this glassy-eyed post-labotomy state.

And yes, it would be hilarious if Timmain suddenly recognized Cutter out of nowhere. I don't want it either but it's fun entertainment.
Part of me always sort of wanted Kahvi and Cutter to end up having a kid, like when she was trying to find his cocoon in the Kahvi series, and cut Nightfall instead. She's always had a talent for making interesting kids, and I have no doubt this kid would've been something else.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:59 pm

@Miss Gillespie wrote:
That's foreshadowing, Angrif's fleet is going to kill most of the Wavedancers (hey, all the Wavedancer, who matter are safely away at the party!*), hence, there'll be no tribe left he could lead. I wonder how they will explain, that the palace can't come to the rescue (or maybe that's part of hare hare Timmain's design of no-palace-pick-ups)
*Brill's sisters and former lover are thrown in for a good measure of tragedy

This will all explained away that the origional cone-heads' home planet was actually... (drum roll please....)









Gallifrey!
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:25 pm

@TrollHammer wrote:


This will all explained away that the origional cone-heads' home planet was actually... (drum roll please....)

So would that make Timmain The Master? Because she sure as heck ain't The Doctor!









Gallifrey!
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:38 pm

Rule number one.... the doctor always lies.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:18 am

Let's begin.

Wendy's art is gorgeous as ever.

Now that's out of the way...

The story with ShenShen. I hate it. There's nothing I like about that story. And I feel like Wendy has ruined ShenShen, who was much better as Leetah's playful sister (a complete opposite to the often less than playful Leetah). So they had that great dynamic. That is now gone and out the window.

Egg. Does he have spaghetti hair? What the heck? He looks horrible. I get it, he was Egg. At least Kudos to Wendy for drawing a not so attractive elf, finally. But of course, it's a "handicapped" elf - like Ekuar was. And I understand he was Egg - but how did he survive all that time since Blue Mountain fell? I always supposed that Winnowill was "feeding" them, perhaps through magic. But an elf has got to eat. How did he live? Seems entirely too far fetched. Disliked it.

The Rayek and Winnowill storyline, never liked it. Was an interesting concept initially - but it's dragged on entirely too long and damaged Rayek as a character. And him showing up - just to leave? Seems pointless. But maybe there's more there to be told. And why did the call stop, just to have his daughter one panel later, trigger it again. Seemed pointless.

I love Two-Edge, but his rhymes in this issue? Horrible. And his speech? "You invite Two-Edge to sup?" (Sup for supper?) "Why offer him a friendly cup?" Groan.

Skywise's sudden infatuation with Timmain seems out of place, and diminishes the character, I feel.

Dre-Ahn, in his first few panels with the chiefs, reminds me of an elf version of Jack Sparrow.

And Timmain at the end - suddenly shifting to "Wolfrider" size and apparently recognizing (possibly?) Skywise.

Shoot me now.

I honestly continue to buy this out of nostalgia, of characters I once loved.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:53 am

It's not exactly sudden; Skywise was drawn to Timmain before the Shard War. I think I'm remembering that time frame correctly anyway. (My mind operates on a twisted version of wolfsong.) But yes, Recognition and Jink seem imminent.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:55 am

*raises hand*

Um... did I miss something? Did Timmain change the "No helping the new elves" rule at some point and I totally didn't see it?

The new elf that came out of the pod... did he reach the Palace at some point? When did they pick him up? Was he in issue 9 and I missed it? Or is this another unwritten "assumption" that he did make it at some time during the time skipping and it just wasn't shown?

There's like three time skips going on in this issue that's left me totally lost and confused.

And I guess he *sang* to Skywise at some point and that's how Skywise knew so much about him already?

Shocked scratch Shocked scratch

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:18 am

Skywise's infatuation with Timmain is hardly sudden. He's been mooning over her for several storylines. She walked directly to him in Book 7 (Cry from Beyond) and they've been tied to each other's hip ever since... minus that 10,000 years that Skywise was time travelling.

As far as the new guy is concerned... I thought he stepped out of the palace. Why would he step out of a pod? I don't think Skywise had time to leave in a pod and pick him up-- he was kicking it with Cutter just a panel or two earlier. This was part of the same scene-- right? I think singing guy showed up in response to the call some time ago, and came along with the Palace when it flew to the Holt. Skywise would have known something about him, because he's been traveling back and forth (remember him picking up Moonshade?)-- I figured he just walked in and ushered the guy out.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:27 am

I got massively confused because that scene was thrown right in the middle of all the pod travelling to pick up Ember and then the Wavedancer chief. That’s why it appeared to me that it was a whole pod travelling thing still. So my bad there. It was just crammed in so damn fast.

That and in the beginning of issue 10, we see the new elf clearly not at the Palace yet because he was in the panel of distant elves when the call *stopped* after Rayek screamed.

So yeah…. Would have been nice if just one panel was drawn where it showed he made it to the Palace at some point

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:51 am

Yeah- I just reread it. He definitely comes out of the Palace.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:06 am

@Multi-Facets wrote:
It's not exactly sudden; Skywise was drawn to Timmain before the Shard War. I think I'm remembering that time frame correctly anyway. (My mind operates on a twisted version of wolfsong.) But yes, Recognition and Jink seem imminent.
@Lunakat wrote:

Skywise's infatuation with Timmain is hardly sudden. He's been mooning over her for several storylines. She walked directly to him in Book 7 (Cry from Beyond) and they've been tied to each other's hip ever since... minus that 10,000 years that Skywise was time travelling.

You're right. I guess I forgot it. And he didn't seem to be pining over her in Final Quest (or that's not the impression I got for these last 10 issues), he seemed more concerned with the Palace - and then all of the sudden in Issue #10, he's like, "Oh My High Ones! You know what? I can't seem to get my mind off this High One, who just the issue before acted like a Supreme Bitch that would put Winnowill to shame!"

@Kindredsoul wrote:
*raises hand*
Um... did I miss something? Did Timmain change the "No helping the new elves" rule at some point and I totally didn't see it?
The new elf that came out of the pod... did he reach the Palace at some point? When did they pick him up? Was he in issue 9 and I missed it? Or is this another unwritten "assumption" that he did make it at some time during the time skipping and it just wasn't shown?
There's like three time skips going on in this issue that's left me totally lost and confused.
And I guess he *sang* to Skywise at some point and that's how Skywise knew so much about him already?
Shocked scratch Shocked scratch

New Guy (with the big No Hump) definitely came from the Palace - because there was the Call - and then when it says he stopped - it shows him looking around in a single panel (along with a few others who suddenly no longer hear the call).

But then - BLAM - he's suddenly there. Which begs to question - how does Skywise know so much about him if Skywise was just hanging out with everyone a second ago? It's not like we saw Skywise greet the new guy.

This book is making a lot of ASSUMPTIONS (emphasis somewhere specifically in that word) which in my mind, is poor writing.

The writing feels like it's everywhere. Some things I feel have been dragged out to death, while other things are entirely skipped and assumed. It feels like they've lost their ability to pace the story - something they once excelled at so much.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:22 am

@Tymber wrote:

Some things I feel have been dragged out to death, while other things are entirely skipped and assumed. It feels like they've lost their ability to pace the story - something they once excelled at so much.


That. Exactly.

NOTHING when a whole new elf arrived at the Palace!? To at least see his expression, greeting new faces, and the like? Isn't THAT a monumental occasion, ESPECIALLY since he's the FIRST!?

But we get how many panels of ShenShen (again) with humans (again) and repeated dialogue (again),

Like I said, I'm STILL TRYING to like FQ, but each issue is making harder than the last, and I was at LEAST hopeful for some GRAND welcome to the FIRST newcomer....

But nothing....   Sad  Sad  Sad

I'm trying... I really really am....

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