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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:37 pm

Tymber wrote:

And that's another thing - in issue #9, she was being completely bitchy to Skywise. And in Issue #10, he's like, "Man, she's a hottie! I can't get her out of my mind!" Then by the end of Issue #10, Timmain's like, "Oh! Look! I shaped myself to be your size! Let's go make beautiful music together!"

Oh man. How many single guy friends do you have? When has a woman being bitchy ever turned them off? Trust me-- most of them like it. It drives them crazy-- they can't figure her out, and they're frustrated, and they want her... but they can't have her... but she gives them a little of what they want, except she makes them work like dogs for it! Yes, most men lap that shindizzle up! Not kidding.

This bit of story struck me as completely plausible!

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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:54 pm

Besides, how bitchy was Leetah to Cutter? About a thousand times worse than just saying "no" one time. I think Skywise can just get over it.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:00 pm

You know... I actually like the art quite a bit in this issue. I like how the characters are drawn. The story is meandering, yes-- but I think that's because it's trying to give equal time to everyone, which is hard to pull off. It's better, as in the Ember-Teir arc, to focus on one or two characters, while having the rest be background. I think when the main story gets going-- which it probably will soon-- and not just this wrapping up of loose ends and positioning of elements, it will pick up again.

The issue cut off at an odd place. It was suppose to create a cliff hanger-- but it would have been more gratifying, I think, to have focused on what was happening with Skywise and Timmain a bit. Maybe it will read better as a graphic novel-- without the story cuts.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:01 pm

Yes, but we also got Leetah's side of it and her obvious internal conflict. Externally it might look the same situation-wise with the ''NO' but we knew she recognized Cutter and how she valued her sense of independence, and wasn't even sure at first what a soul name was.
The problem is that we're not seeing anything internally going on with Timmain. We are only guessing, Oh it's because she's an alien / was a wolf for a long time, that's why she's coming off as she is , etc.. It's being taken for granted that because of these circumstances and her background, this is acceptable, for her to come off as she is. But it's like wasted opportunity, because all the MORE reason to show what is going on with her.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:07 pm

Lunakat wrote:

The issue cut off at an odd place. It was suppose to create a cliff hanger-- but it would have been more gratifying, I think, to have focused on what was happening with Skywise and Timmain a bit. Maybe it will read better as a graphic novel-- without the story cuts.

That's exactly what I mean, it would be great to focus on this.
Come to think of it, I'm not even sure if Skywise and Timmain are recognizing. I mean, maybe she just wants to get some and it's been a long time, and Skywise is her chosen elf.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:55 pm

I think we don't see what's going on inside Timmain because we are supposed to understand her as the Wolfriders do-- as this remote and inscrutable figure. And that's how she is coming off. That's how she comes off to the other characters, except Skywise-- which is why Cutter reacts that way. He's as uncomfortable as we are.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:11 pm

Tymber wrote:
Certainly! But the word "bro" has been around for a long time too. But would you be okay, if he made the rhyme of, "Don't look to me bro, you must decide where to go!"

To me, it seemed very out of place. Because a word exists doesn't mean it "feels" right (to me) in the ElfQuest universe. "Sup", "bro", "dude" and a mess of other slangs that people in the "real world" use does not necessarily mean it would translate well being used in ElfQuest.

But it wasn't just the "sup" - but Two-Edge's rhyming in general seems very... lack luster in this issue.


"Sup" means "to eat". It isn't a shortened form of "what's up" which I assume you mean when you place it amongst "bro" and "dude". "Sup" is not out of place. Shakespeare used the word. I don't feel like it's "un-Elfquest" at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:25 pm

I just keep thinking of Ella Fitzgerald singing Cole Porter's 'Too Darn Hot':

"I'd like to sup with my baby tonight,
Refill the cup with my baby tonight.
I'd like to sup with my baby tonight,
Refill the cup with my baby tonight,
But I ain't up to my baby tonight,
'Cause it's too darn hot."

Yeah, it's definitely older than Cole Porter and dates way, way back.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:26 pm

Lunakat wrote:
I think we don't see what's going on inside Timmain because we are supposed to understand her as the Wolfriders do-- as this remote and inscrutable figure. And that's how she is coming off. That's how she comes off to the other characters, except Skywise-- which is why Cutter reacts that way. He's as uncomfortable as we are.

Sigh. I miss Cutter. I mean, I miss the story sort of being more through his eyes. It is so much more fragmented now.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:17 pm

Lunakat wrote:
Besides, how bitchy was Leetah to Cutter? About a thousand times worse than just saying "no" one time. I think Skywise can just get over it.

Well for the Cutter/Leetah thing; there was Recognition. And we got to see Leetah's conflict about her feeling and the pull of Recognition. Timmain (again, based on Final Quest, and perhaps my horrid memory) simply went from "I am all powerful and mysterious" in the first couple of issues, to "We will not pick up anyone! They can walk their candy asses here!" in issue #9 (clearly I am paraphrasing) to "Oh, hey Skywise, I think I like-like you!" in issue #10. Nowhere do we see Timmain's thoughts on Skywise in Final Quest. And Skywise's thoughts (again could be my soddy memory) don't really reflect on Timmain in Final Quest until issue #10, and just before she's like, "Let's do the ramba in the sheets!"

Lunakat wrote:

You know... I actually like the art quite a bit in this issue. I like how the characters are drawn. The story is meandering, yes-- but I think that's because it's trying to give equal time to everyone, which is hard to pull off.

It's really just the plot feeling like it's everywhere that I have a problem with. I bet some of the things I dislike happening - Shenshen turning into a human, Timmain & Skywise, etc - would settle MUCH better with me, if it was developed further in the story. To you and I - it makes sense that ShenShen would become a human, because she loves being a mid-wife and this is the easiest way to be accepted by them. But that didn't really get developed. She didn't have any conflict of, "If I do this I may never see my family again" type of stuff - and if she did, it was extremely brief. Same with Timmain and Skywise. I would have liked to have seen that developed in Final Quest, as if Final Quest was the first time I was exposed to ElfQuest.

Deep down, I guess, it feels like Final Quest alienates new readers because Wendy is shoving so much into it, rather than breaking it up in arcs. Like one arc (maybe 3 issues) should have focused on Ember, Tier and whatever that human's name is, with a page or two dedicated to the Palace stuff, so you know it's happening in the background. Issues 4 through 6, build up ShenShen and Skywise and Timmain, issues 7 through 10 focus on Rayek and his approach to the Palace, etc.

Instead, it feels like the book jumps in EVERY issue, because she's covering so many elements at once, in EVERY issue rather than focusing on stuff, and eluding to other stuff.


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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:53 pm

Yes, she is definitely eluding somethings, like any real reaction to Rayek's decision. And she's barely alluding to others, like what the heck is going on with the ents.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:32 pm

@Tymber-- I think you pretty much nailed it. Except for the Skywise Timmain bit. We aren't supposed to know Timmain's thoughts-- because she's supposed to read as enigmatic. And Skywise has been mooning over her for numerous books now. He mooned over her in Hidden Years, in Full Circle and at the end of Shards. It's not out of the blue. I think Final Quest just isn't written for new readers.

@Manga-- I'm so, so sorry. Really. My sincere condolences. I also agree that wasn't cool.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:32 pm

Ents... nothing. Nothing is going on with them so far. Only one guy in ten years made it to the Palace. Timmain should have let Skywise give them a lift.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:24 am

Lunakat wrote:
Ents... nothing. Nothing is going on with them so far. Only one guy in ten years made it to the Palace. Timmain should have let Skywise give them a lift.

Well, we don't know that for certain. It's possible that there are many new elves back at Blue Mountain with the Palace. Dre-ahn (capitalized 'A' or not?) might've gone along in the pod because he's a chief, or there's some special reason for him being there we don't know about yet. Maybe that's what Skywise was about to say before he was cut off.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:32 am

Still processing what I've read (I got my issue today), but I did want to add to what's been said about "sup." "Sup" is not modern slang, but an archaic form of "to eat supper."  See for instance this Mother Goose rhyme:

"To bed, to bed,"says Sleepyhead.
"Tarry a while," says Slow.
"Put on the pan," says greedy Nan,
"We'll sup before we go."

The Mother Goose rhymes come down from the 1600s-1700s, I think.
So Two-Edge's use of the word seemed fine to me-- he is often old-fashioned in the way he talks.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:28 am

KR Wordgazer wrote:

So Two-Edge's use of the word seemed fine to me-- he is often old-fashioned in the way he talks.

And by old fashioned you mean... crazy? Smile

Two-Edge, to me (despite his insanity, or perhaps because of it), sounded "old fashioned" in that he seemed very well spoken.

I don't know, the "sup" just didn't read well for me. Wasn't that big of a deal, the word itself (though, like most of what I have read in Final Quest - it was a bit jarring). But his "speech" over all seemed weaker than usual. And I think, as someone else pointed out - he went from, "Go away!" to "Hey, let's be best friends!" (Granted, crazy people can be like that). But it feels like a lot of this issue felt that way. From Two-Edge's attitude, to even Skywise's (apparent, for those that don't remember the previous stuff or are new readers) attitude and liking of Timmain, and even Timmain going from, "Everyone can walk!" to, "Hey Skywise! Hold me, hot stuff." Even Moonshade leaving (I can't remember clearly, but didn't she leave in issue #9?) and issue #10, she seems like, "It's been a zillion years! All those feelings from the last 9 issues of not knowing my place are resolved for reasons none of the readers get to know! But I want to be with you forever Strongbow! HOLD ME!"

All in one issue. There just feels like a lot that is being left for the reader to assume. I remember a time that ElfQuest focused on this type of stuff; gave it to the reader, let them know the inside of all these character's minds, and let it develop so you really got a feel for them.

That, I think is what is missing.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:40 am

Moonshade doesn't say she's staying forever-- just for the season.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:42 am

Otherwise, yes.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:59 am

That's because women are fickle and don't know what they want!

/runs away screaming! Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:18 am

Tymber wrote:
That's because women are fickle and don't know what they want!

/runs away screaming! Laughing


Yes we are and you best remember it.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:31 am

Tymber wrote:
That's because women are fickle and don't know what they want!

/runs away screaming! Laughing

Of course! Very Happy
We still expect you men to always know and we get mad if you don't get it right!

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One person I'm kinda curious about is the woman seen in that scene were Shuna starts wondering whether the Djunslanders will choose a new form of leadership - just before we goes to Angrif's death scene.
She's clearly pregnant and by judging by her stature and the fact it seems like she is the one to greet the Travellers, I wonder if she's the Chief; not a Chief's mate, but Chief in her own right.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:41 am

Lunakat wrote:
@Manga-- I'm so, so sorry. Really. My sincere condolences. I also agree that wasn't cool.

Mmm? For what?
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:42 am

Redhead Ember wrote:

One person I'm kinda curious about is the woman seen in that scene were Shuna starts wondering whether the Djunslanders will choose a new form of leadership - just before we goes to Angrif's death scene.
She's clearly pregnant and by judging by her stature and the fact it seems like she is the one to greet the Travellers, I wonder if she's the Chief; not a Chief's mate, but Chief in her own right.

Sharp eyes and thoughts, Ember! Bee did say that many of the other tribes were matriarchal.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:46 pm

Exactly! Very Happy

Is it weird to be so curious about a character that appears once and doesn't have a name?
A name that we know that is, I'm assuming she has a name.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:56 pm

Lunakat wrote:
Ents... nothing. Nothing is going on with them so far. Only one guy in ten years made it to the Palace. Timmain should have let Skywise give them a lift.

I read the issue twice, and it really looks to me between the end of the last issue and the end of this issue, it has been four months.  Six at the outside.  Certainly not 10 years!

The Palace moved to Blue Mountain in the winter. Aurek comes almost immediately upon its arrival.  Then Moonshade comes to visit Strongbow at the beginning of spring, and Shenshen does her first human midwifery, birthing Shuna's granddaughter (the mother looked about five-six months pregnant when Shenshen first arrived).

So.  Four to six months.

Also, not just one guy, but him plus Aurek, Rayek, Ekuar and all the Go-Backs. Very Happy

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