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 Final Quest #10

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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:33 am

@Manga... I don't think we need to see the aura lines. It's implied. The fact that the Sun Folk are evolving has been talked about before-- so there is set up for it. And everyone else has concluded that Rayek is not just talking about height. It's communicated. We don't need it to be so explicitly illustrated.

I don't think that this development in Rayek needs to ret con Rogue's Curse. How long has it been? He's been wandering around with her inside him for many years at this point. Someone other than me can go back and calculate how long it's been since Shards. Long enough for the events in Rogue's Curse to have happened.

And the fact that Rayek can't let go doesn't negate his sacrifice. Someone did need to contain Winnowil back then. That was very necessary at the time, and his act was definitely for the good of others. But this does add a very Rayek dimension to it. It, likewise, makes a good degree of sense-- he's been spending so long holding her in, it would naturally be hard for him to let her go. But it also makes a lot of sense in terms of the history of his character.

Honestly, Rayek's fate always gave me the heebie jeebies. When he was with Leetah, he was possessive- and they had a power struggle happening in the relationship where she ran away and he tried to keep her. When it was time to let her go, he couldn't do it. With Winnowil, he has a very literal variation on that theme. He is literally imprisoning her, with the goal of making her love him. But you can never "make" anyone love you. Holding her in is one thing. But the whole of Rogue's Curse, he is insisting that he can convince her to love him or accept his love. That's not healthy. She was never going to do it. So this is the final test. He has to let her go. If he can let her go-- he may even get what he wants after all.

This reminds me of something. There is kind of a thing that is known to happen with addicts and their families or significant others. Basically, the family or romantic relationship has been shaped around this person's addiction. The family members or significant others have spent much of their time compensating for and resenting the addiction. Then, the addict goes through therapy and tries to change. But coming back-- the family or significant other is still functioning in the same way. So there's a conflict. It's like- you have to let yourself let this person let go of his/her addiction. And it's not easy like you think it would be.

That's sort of how I'm reading this moment with Rayek. That, and-- has he really changed? Can he really give up control? We will have to see.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:57 am

Lunakat, SOME of the events of "Rogue's Curse" could possibly still have happened.  But several story lines - including the one where Winnowill shapes Rayek to High One stature, which he conclusively lacks at this point - take place 400 years later.(See this page for reference.)  So unless "Final Quest" somehow wraps around to enfold "Rogue's Curse," then any failure on Rayek's part to allow Winnowill her healing will indeed change the story from one of sacrifice to one of selfishness.

I'm not going to derail this into another discussion of the depths of Rayek's psyche but I will just point out that Leetah actively encouraged Rayek - it was not simply that he would not let go.  And he did in fact do just that at the end of Book One, though admittedly it's not necessarily a complete job.  And he was able to respond properly to Suntop's "Please rescue Father because you love my mother" gambit. (Of course it would have been better if he hadn't needed the prompting but I feel credit should be extended for choosing the right thing over the satisfying thing.)

There is so much good in him and he's "shed so much sickness already."  I won't be able to stand if if that's all thrown away.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:34 pm

I didn't realize 400 years had passed. You are right-- it was less than 100 at most. Because Shuna and her son are still alive. Shuna is still alive because of magical intervention, but he refused it. So he can't live longer than a normal human life span.

I don't want to derail the conversation either. The only way this moment would negate Rayek's good deeds is if he doesn't let her go. I guess you are right-- it could go either way in the next panel. We will just have to wait and see.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:36 pm

As far as Leetah is concerned-- I never meant to say that the situation with Winnowil was an exact parallel-- just that Rayek's character has always had certain tendencies... and the thing with Winnowil just always struck me as a variation on a common theme. I would love to see him move beyond it. I really hope he does.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:43 pm

Yeah, I have to admit, it would be kind of ridiculous to make it like Rayek is holding on to her and that's the reason why he continues to carry her. I'm wondering if it's going to be like, Oh you're so fused to her that if you let her go, you have to die, and Rayek won't give up his earthly shell. Which would be annoying. I sometimes get the impression that the Pinis don't much care for Rayek as a character, and yet won't commit to killing him off either so instead he's kept in this purgatorial state because 'he deserves it' on some level, and not a lot of thought beyond that.
None of his storyline has added up for me with the Winnowill thing , considering the supposed power of the palace. I cannot see Rayek as so lacking in a conscience that he is unaware of holding on to her. To have him and Ekuar wandering around in Rogue's Curse for as long as they do and not even have Ekuar mention it, like , Hey, haven't you had enough of her trying to kill me, kill you, and kill everyone else?

It just doesn't add up, and it would be nonsense to make it seem like Winnie wants to be let go of and can be healed and yet he won't let her. It would totally discredit the author(s), it would make the writing extremely sloppy.
I adore Rayek, he deserves a better treatment as a character other than just being some out of control control freak love addict lol. Better treatment being more care and consideration as a character.

OK ok, rant over. Sorry.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:46 pm

What's going on with Skyfire and who she recognized, why was she brought up? Did I miss something in those panels?


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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:06 pm

@Lunakat wrote:
As far as Leetah is concerned-- I never meant to say that the situation with Winnowil was an exact parallel-- just that Rayek's character has always had certain tendencies... and the thing with Winnowil just always struck me as a variation on a common theme. I would love to see him move beyond it. I really hope he does.

Hear, hear.

Zadzi, Miss Gillespie brought up the guy Skyfire Recognized - she seems to have read the whole issue, though how I don't know. I wish she'd share her time-portal. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:44 pm

Yeah, I was wondering about that, Manga! I keep obsessively checking Dark Horse comics on my iPad just in case it's come out early, but, alas, no luck.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:49 pm

@Miss Gillespie wrote:
Btw , is it certain  that the guy skyfire recognised, is dead?

According to the "Blood of Ten Chiefs" novels, the Dreamsinger was killed by Stonethrower, a former follower of Two-Spear who either came back to Skyfire's tribe, or never left. Stonethrower was, in turn, killed by the Dreamsinger's wolf, who later bonded with Skyfire and accepted the name Song.

The problem here is the novels claim Skyfire had a daughter named Nightstar before she had Freefoot; Nightstar inherited the Dreamsinger's magic and then relinquished it to help Skyfire defeat the Dreamsinger's lingering spirit. Which puts Freefoot's parentage into question.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:11 pm

Ok, so I looked on my iPad Darkhorse app, and the preview for this issue is different on there. It starts from the 1st page, which is not the same as the preview from my laptop. The regular preview on my computer starts with Rayek, but that's like the 3rd page of the issue. Nothing especially pivotal happens these first 3 pages, btw.

Oh, and I tried to fool my iPad into thinking it was the 22nd by changing the date, which made the new issue appear for purchase, but when I try to purchase it, the app freaks out and gives me an error. Grrr.

I've read on the Facebook pages that the app is more successful on an Android, but I have no idea. Soooo......

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:00 pm

And after all that time of being totally ignored Ingen and Yarrah remember they had a son, and Rayek remembers he has totally all right living parents. How random does that feel...This was always a huge plot hole, and this does not feel like a good solution.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:09 pm

Yeah.  It's nice to see him with his family (3-generation shot!  Woo!) and see him continue with his more humbled attitude...

But I just feel like his parents should put their hands on his shoulders and apologize for not fighting for him as a youth - it might do a lot for his ability to let Winnowill go. (Wendy wrote at the end of "Shards" that Ekaur was the only source of paternal affection Rayek has ever known - this is clearly more than him having been a snot of a kid.)

(Though a shared apology from him for being a conceited little snot back then would not be amiss, I know. Acknowledging it to yourself is a good start - now keep going, Rayek!)
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:48 pm

Elf blood is thinner than water after all...
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:26 pm

BTW, does it strike anyone else as odd that Treestump can't remember Little Patch, the human his tribe raised and who lived with them for 15-20 years, but Moonshade can remember Aurek, who she never actually met? ;D
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:40 pm

Yeah, actually! That's weird! Guess Wendy didn't feel like squeezing in a panel where he introduces himself.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:57 pm

I don't think Rayek's parents owe him a favor. They didn't force him to do anything he didn't very much want to do. And he himself admits he rejected them. He's a big boy. And for them it's been over ten thousand years... (remember when he jumped through time in the Palace?) Can u imagine remembering back over ten thousand years?

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:31 pm

Maybe I'm wrong, though, and Moonshade did meet him off-screen. Maybe The Egg laid the seed for her disassociation from the Wolfrider Way.

On the topic of Rayek, what a sad little world it would be if we only ever got what we were owed. Certainly by that measure Winnowill isn't owed the healing they are trying to accomplish. Some things you do because others need them. I think Rayek needs his sense of abandonment addressed. If they can remember that he is their son after 10,000 years, then I'm sure they can remember the failure of that relationship. If the elves put the responsibility for that soley on the shoulders of a 10-year old, then they aren't worth our time.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:47 pm

Is it a sense of abandonment ? I always thought it was a superiority complex.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:59 pm

I always thought of it as a superiority complex developed in part to cover the sense of loss. "It's not that they didn't care about me - I left them."
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:38 am

He just couldn't connect with his parents. Rayek was a completely different creature, and yes, he was a brat as a kid growing up, but I felt it was very much in line with a sort of disconnect and contempt at not having a mentor (this was pre Savah being his mentor and essentially his mother figure, while Ekuar became a father figure).
He felt alone and he sort of was. No one else, save Savah, and maybe Suntoucher, had these gifts in the Sun Village. Compare Suntop and his upbringing or even Leetah's, with Rayek's upbringing. They grew up during relatively peaceful times which weren't plagued with drought or whatever (up to a point). They had full emotional support from their parents, who tried to nurture their gifts from day one, not to mention both sets of parents had a certain high standing (status-wise) within their communities. Rayek's parents did not. They really were "dirt diggers" as he calls them lol. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, I'm just pointing out that the differences can definitely contribute to him having a 'superiority complex' ... he's either putting himself too low or too high, he has had to try to always find himself within a community and tried to stand apart because it's a close echo to how he grew up...

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:30 am

I usually get the issues one day early on my app (android), so yes, I read the new issue yesterday


issue #10 spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:45 am

No way! That sucks! Ug. I hate that that happens. It seems completely wrong.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:57 am

What the #$%^!!!! That really sucks.


UGH. I might give up on the series. This is sloppy treatment of a character if this is really the case. Now I'm all mad Evil or Very Mad

Who am I kidding. I'll keep reading though I'll probably be occasionally fuming Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:35 am

Also, how does Aurek come by his fairly sophisticated clothes if he spent an eternity living on nothing but grubs, lichens and meditation? He would have to hunt some fairly large game to get that much leather... If it is leather...
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:53 am

Hm, if they jump the shark, I'd probably quit reading, right now it's only on train wreck-level.

The scene made me actually feel bad for Winnowill. Could it be, that she will be released next issue?

If Egg is guarding some evil spirit, can't it be cleansed by Sunstream with the help of the palace and all the Sun Folk (and their signs of becoming high ones)? He is standing right on top of it!

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