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Stargazer

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:49 pm

I pulled out my old Original Quests last night, and...it's hard to believe it was written by the same people. The OQ had story, and depth, and rounded, interesting characters. With FQ I think the Pinis are trying to follow too many people and end up following no one. It's just a muddle. There's no plot. It's hard to maintain interest when nothing seems to happen. I think they ran out of steam after Kings and never found their groove again. This FQ is just a sad parody. I agree with those who say EQ has jumped the shark.

I did like the Two Edge scenes though.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:51 pm

Somebody, please tell me to shut up and stop commenting on the main Elfquest page. I know it's futile and I can't stop myself.
Damn this PMS (sorry, tmi).

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:03 pm

Zadzi, stop commenting on the main EQ page. Save your sanity. Rayek Devil
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:31 pm

Zadzi-- what's your real name? (PM me) I want to read your comments!
Also- stop it!

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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:42 pm

It's the same on the old site. Ok, I will stop. I promise!

thank you guys for keeping me sane Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:52 am

Pretty much anything I want to say has been said various ways, with minor variances if any. For my part, Ive always thought Rayak was "Oh, I get it now that Im not the all powerful center of attention, but Im still a better judge of whats right and wrong than anyone else", and to a degree this chapter neither added or took away from that feeling, if anything it was rushed.

Rant:
Spoiler:
 

I will say, though, that I am enjoying having some more story to read, regardless of whether it lives up to expectations (which may or may not be inflated due to waiting).
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:20 am

It's good to hear that Picknose is in it, at least. I would like to see the Dre-Ahn's character design. We need more Elves of color- but somehow I suspect his story will be buried in the muddle. Will he be called Doctor Dre after he graduates university? I think we have seen more characters with Ahn in their name. Has the meaning ever been explained?
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:44 am

Hello everyone!
I'm glad I was able to find this issue quickly, as I'm leaving on holidays tomorrow (poor me... Wink )
Most of my thoughts have been said in the comments above so I won't comment on the Rayek/Winnowill/passive spectators of the Palace...

Some other points of irritation:
- Dre-Ahn... I really hope the Pinis will give us a bit of backstory for this character, I hate to see him appearing out of the blue like that. How can Skywise know so many things about him yet? Wasn't he supposed to stay away from the ones who wanted to reach the palace?
- Timmini... although it was obvious, I still don't see the point. Skywise didn't need that. "Stand eye to eye with her"? "hold her to [you]"? How on the World of Two Moons were you doing with Aroree?
- Trinket... baby girl Trinket... how many years have passed since the reappearance of the Palace? 50? 60? Enough for Shuna to be an old woman who would be "withered and hobbling" save for Leetah's magic, but not enough for a Troll girl to reach adulthood?

Ok I stop ranting... for now.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:48 am

I thought this issue was neither better nor worse than any of the others. I feel like I've enjoyed the last two more, but I think that's because I no longer really expect anything better.

Richard has said that Wendy had this all in her head from the beginning, but I agree with Troll hammer, it feels like instead of some great new story to tell, they have this laundry list of unfinished business they want to clean up instead, and they want to get it over with as soon as possible. Although I agree with other's comments that if all this is set-up, I'd rather move on now. I'd give up some questions about other past stories to get other answered about this story.

Why are Mender and Dart starting a Troll war? Just to give Treestump a quiet place to work? Surely, they could start a new forge elsewhere. Or in the palace, as it provides all they need. Once Two-edged starts tinkering, won't they need to make replacement parts from time to time?

Why are they having this meeting of chiefs?

Why is there an interruption every time someone new comes in the palace? Honestly, these guys are crawling up from the ground and crossing the globe. Don't they deserve at least a minute of undivided attention?

And what about Aurek? He seemed a pretty together guy in Kahvi. Now he seems pretty shell-shocked. Sometime after Kahvi left him, he must have encountered this suspicious force. I'd like to know more about it.

Reading this is like trying to watch a movie in 20 second clips found on you - tube in random order and trying to make sense of it.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:22 pm

Sorry for the double post. Seems I've once again brought the conversation to a grinding halt.

I have an alternate explanation of Rayek's behavior.

When Leetah tried to heal Winnie before, Winnie risked her life rather than be healed. Rayek must know her fear about it. He can't just offer her up to something she doesn't willingly submit to.

Maybe he learned his lesson well about free will and making choices for others.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:14 pm

I love your interpretation, Outlier. Mind if I adopt it?
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:26 am

@Outlier wrote:
Sorry for the double post. Seems I've once again brought the conversation to a grinding halt.

There is not much to discuss on, we all agree that the story is underwhelming and hold together by plot devices.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:47 am

Timmain: This is an emergency council. Sunstream will soon be sending out The Call and Rayek will be responding to it. We must have a plan.

Savah: Surely there is enough power and skill in the Palace now to heal Winnowill?

Timmain: Of course there is. The real question is what will happen if we have a healed Winnowill and Rayek in our midst. Neither of them will show throat as Skywise did. They will insist on action. The peace of this place will be shattered.

Sun Folk: *mutters of dismay.*

Savah: We can talk to them--

Timmain: Exactly. Ingan, Jarrah: You will appear just long enough to discomfit Rayek. Glider spirits - none of you will contact Winnowill. Especially you, Voll. Savah, you and I must put Rayek's back up. They will dig their heels in to their respective positions and depart to fight it out somewhere far away from me.

Savah: But-

Timmain: No buts. I have spoken.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:20 pm

I have read it, too. I feel like there is not enough room in the story for all the characters and there is a lot going on that is just not shown. But I don't know.
I liked seeing Dart and Kimo again. I want to see more of Dart and Mender, and also more of Korafay and Reef.
And I liked Moonshade chosing to be with Strongbow again, but I don't know... Their storyline just doesn't touch me anymore the way it did in the earlier comics.
I don't get the Rayek thing.
Hopefully the next issue won't focus too much on Skywise and Timmain. tongue I really don't care about them at all.
Oh and I want to know about the tree elfs! bounce

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:52 pm

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but does anyone know what the deal is with the wolves mortality rate? It seems they used to live really long time, and now it seems like every other issue there's a new wolf. Is it just the time jumps that are confusing me? Is there something with the wolf blood getting thinned out? I know Tier's wolves aren't tied to the elves. Don't the Wolfrider wolves have a drop of elf blood or something? Has it thinned out entirely?

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:05 pm

Ok...I just gotta say a few things.  Others have made some good comments thus far though!

1. What the heck happened to Venka's nose in that one shot?  Her going all manga on us is just so icky!  It is only in the one panel, but either Sonny or Wendy or both just really blew it by giving her a dark smudge instead of nostrils as per normal.

2. I do like the square-buckle-design (it is on all 3 of them) to tie the little Rayek family together style wise.  Now if only there was anything else binding them as a family that would be good too.

3. Winnie is asking to be let go...but she doesn't say "into the palace to rule you all" or "free from all constraints so I can wreak havoc"...erm...uh...hmmm.  Heck even the Djun gets his big speech at the end. And yeah...math...retcon....issues all over the place. Rogue's Curse is how he gets her back, grows taller, and still keeps her a prisoner after the palace flies off without fixing her?  What?!?

4. I dig some of the creative coloring of panels.  The soft focus in the panel where they pull out Winnie by staring...(stupid idea) makes great use of colors, Sonny!  I always like a "not-so outlined" look to it once in a while.  Even to heal Strongbow they made some fancy new capes and stood in a special circle.  Anti-climactic anyone?

5. Math...Trinket is a teen still, the human child that got burned is apparently at least crushing on Khorbaishi(or however you spell that guy's name)...Shuna is as old as dirt yet her son doesn't look too bad yet...the Pinis could not get more all over the map here if they tried.  Timeframes have to exist...even in a magical realm full of Palacepalooza.  Get a timeline going for yourselves if you can't be bothered to pick a century, let alone a decade, for us fans.

6.  Two-edge goes all ryhme-time mental, then he's all, "Sweet. Let me teach elves stuff" as soon as someone invites him to dinner.  Mkay.  He's just moody then, not really mental.  Heh.

7. I realize they can do this just for kicks now...but can everyone just pick a holt already?
What is with the shuffle?  It's got to mean something eventually with the plot...right?  

8.  OMG...does no one even find it icky that Skywise is gonna bang his great-great-great-repeat-as-needed-for-ten-generations Grandma?  I get that elves are so different and all, blah blah blah...but...EW?  Really...ew.  Incest isn't an issue for them the same way and all...but why would
they have any genetic impluse to join genes with their own descendants?  How is that  "science" of recognition wired exactly?  If they don't recognize I can stand it better I think.  A roll in the furs is just a thing...but having offspring due to a soul bond with your own ancestor...erm...that's literally going to make me sing that "I'm my own grandpa" song if they hop in their timemachine and get procreative.  Urgh.

9. She says, "Don't go get them" then Skywise just pops out and brings in No-voice.  Then she rewards him by shrinking to his size.  

10. Aurek looks like he has been thru the ringer, and I wish he could be the more cool Egg instead.
I hope he gets to that in the Palace.  I like him and Ekuar meeting.

11.  Rayek is now suicidal...so he can be with Winnie/thePalace.  No one mentions this after reading this issue?  Elves know what happens when they die so is it even a big deal?  Khavi's "Oh no duckling, you don't get to have it as good as me" makes me think even very tough elves really do like being sprits better, so why shouldn't he/they?

12.  I'm agreeing that the writing has gone downhill.  It is less clear, potent and generally cohesive.

13.  As for the art, I still like it, and I think it is getting slightly better as the issues go on in this series.  Wendy was getting very "square, blocky" body pose during Masque and now the flowing lines are taking over again.  I do think the coloring in this issue is kinda all over the place too.  I love Leetah and Cutter looking at old (timeline issues again) Filcher...as far as the colors go I mean.  Then we get to the shading on the rocks behind the big Ember as she gets the "chiefcon invite" and I facepalm again.  Crude crosshatching there..yuck.  I am a very demanding fan.  They have set the bar higher in the past.

Anyway, that's my rant for now.  I will of course not stop reading even if I complain about jumped sharks too.

--Nightsea
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:20 pm

@Zadzi wrote:
I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but does anyone know what the deal is with the wolves mortality rate? It seems they used to live really long time, and now it seems like every other issue there's a new wolf. Is it just the time jumps that are confusing me? Is there something with the wolf blood getting thinned out? I know Tier's wolves aren't tied to the elves. Don't the Wolfrider wolves have a drop of elf blood or something? Has it thinned out entirely?

Comments I've seen elsewhere seem to indicate the elf blood has thinned, but what you're seeing could just as easily be the time-frame. The Original Quest was 7 or 8 years. There was a three-year break and then "Siege at Blue Mountain" and "Kings of the Broken Wheel" were a few weeks or months at most. There's the 500-year gap then a few years (not more than 10), then the Shards War, then the next few stories are a couple years down the road and there start to be time skips... so I think the life-span of the wolves has probably changed less than their screen-time.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:21 pm

Nightsea:

I don't think Rayek is suicidal. I think that was an ill-advised joke regarding how much he loves having Petalwing around.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:39 pm

Don't even talk to me about the wolf thing. Don't even.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:42 pm

@manga wrote:

Timmain: Of course there is.  The real question is what will happen if we have a healed Winnowill and Rayek in our midst.  Neither of them will show throat as Skywise did.  They will insist on action.  The peace of this place will be shattered.

I keep thinking of the comment about "hare Timmain" and Monty Python ' s Holy Grail. To me it's Rayek saying: "On second thought,  let's not go to the palace. It's a silly place."

You almost got to respect him for not being caught in that hot mess.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:13 pm

@manga wrote:
@Zadzi wrote:
I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but does anyone know what the deal is with the wolves mortality rate? It seems they used to live really long time, and now it seems like every other issue there's a new wolf. Is it just the time jumps that are confusing me? Is there something with the wolf blood getting thinned out? I know Tier's wolves aren't tied to the elves. Don't the Wolfrider wolves have a drop of elf blood or something? Has it thinned out entirely?

Comments I've seen elsewhere seem to indicate the elf blood has thinned, but what you're seeing could just as easily be the time-frame.  The Original Quest was 7 or 8 years.  There was a three-year break and then "Siege at Blue Mountain" and "Kings of the Broken Wheel" were a few weeks or months at most.  There's the 500-year gap then a few years (not more than 10), then the Shards War, then the next few stories are a couple years down the road and there start to be time skips... so I think the life-span of the wolves has probably changed less than their screen-time.

OKay, that makes sense. I kind of miss the wolves' personalities figuring in more to the story, it's what got me thinking about it. Now it's a snapshot here and there and that's it. I'm just waxing nostalgic, I suppose, but the wolves now just seem barely peripheral at times. The goddamn palace again. It ruins everything. Strongbow was right.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:21 pm

@Nightsea wrote:

8.  OMG...does no one even find it icky that Skywise is gonna bang his great-great-great-repeat-as-needed-for-ten-generations Grandma?  I get that elves are so different and all, blah blah blah...but...EW?  Really...ew.  Incest isn't an issue for them the same way and all...but why would
they have any genetic impluse to join genes with their own descendants?  How is that  "science" of recognition wired exactly?  If they don't recognize I can stand it better I think.  A roll in the furs is just a thing...but having offspring due to a soul bond with your own ancestor...erm...that's literally going to make me sing that "I'm my own grandpa" song if they hop in their timemachine and get procreative.  Urgh.

9. She says, "Don't go get them" then Skywise just pops out and brings in No-voice.  Then she rewards him by shrinking to his size.  

--Nightsea

I find it 'icky', but fitting because of Skywise's abandonment issues from the loss of his parents. I just don't get any romance between those two, and never have. Their dynamic gives me the creeps. It was at its best when Timmain was there for him after he lost Starjumper. Now? It's just creepy. And perpetuates the weird codependency thing Skywise has always had a problem with.
And yeah, the jump from 'NO. NO PODS' *GLARE* to shrinking down to his size is just uh, um, wtf? Ooookay. Suspect
And he calls her a maiden? Even Cutter was all, Maiden? Oookay. I mean, even Cutter wasn't buying it.
In general a lot of the dialogue was VERY clunky this time around to me, especially with the Skywise scenes.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:01 am

I didn't think Skywise got a pod and went and picked up the guy... I thought he was, like, the only new elf at all to make it to the Palace-- and that Skywise just sort of knew because he had been traveling back and forth a bit.

I don't mind that Skywise is hooking up with Timmain. That's really not out of the blue at all. Did you guys read "Full Circle"? Remember him mooning over her? It's happened quite a lot. This isn't the first time he's said or thought something along the lines of what he said to Cutter.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:21 am

No, it was only out of the blue in KoTBW, when Timmain returns in wolf form and someone says something like "she wanted to return to her children, especially Skywise".

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #10   Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:07 am

If that was a joke about Petalwing, I totally missed it...even after a reading it twice. pale

I don't think it is "out of the blue" and I know it has been suggested for ages, but I still think
"ew" on the Skywise-Timmain pairing. I liked it when she was a wolf that bonded with him and
then Cutter when they needed wolf-friends...just find it not so great that she'd be less maternal
and more girlfriend. Don't think they really needed to go there, that's all. I can see the series going
off the rails with the time distortion angle and really hope Skywise isn't actually his own grandpa (X10). Him leaving his wolf blood behind makes that seem even more a possible thing of course,
as otherwise Timmain wouldn't have had to actually bond with a real wolf for them to get the blood...or...causal loop problems insert here....paradox stuff, etc.

Oh and I forgot to mention before my other takeaway from this issue: Two-Edge has purple eyes!
Who knew? What does that mean for Winnie's original eye color?

Oh and speaking of things that have changed (eye colors): at least Krim got her funky ears this time.

--NS



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