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G0lden

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:47 pm

Winnowill, she has never accepted that she is wrong, has always been wrong.

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Tymber

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:58 am

G0lden wrote:
Winnowill, she has never accepted that she is wrong, has always been wrong.

Yeah, but to me that's all about her character. Just like Magneto, from the X-Men. In his head, the things he did was for the right thing for mutants. Sort of like what Winnowill believed was right for the Gliders, in her own demented way.
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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:26 am

Tymber wrote:
Redhead Ember wrote:
Poorly written characters does not make me dislike them, it just makes me not care. I dislike Winnie because she's well written, as a dislikeable character.

Take the example of characters dying.
With a poorly-written character I'm just "Oh... he died. Whatever."
With a well written character I'm either "Waaaah! NO! Not [insert character]." or "Yay! Suck it, BITCH!"
And then there was Winnie were it was mostly "Oh, SHIT!"

So there isn't a single character - when they appear on panel, you go, "Blah. Them."

Like when Original Quest came out, for me it was Rainsong and Woodlock. They were so just... in the background... lack any "Urmph!" that made them stick out. Ever.

Guess what you refer to as dislike is what I refer to as not caring about.
Even so it's still a very few I don't care about at all; I'd absolutely love to learn more about the Baker for starters, you know even though she only appears once and isn't even named. Take a character like Zey; we don't really know anything about him other than the fact that he usurped cheif-ship over the Go-Backs - and possible killed Urda, or at least had something to do with her death - but his actions in attacking Sorrow's End was enough to make me dislike him, due to his well-writteness - as little as that's possible for a character appearing so little - as a dislikeable character.
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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:40 am

Winnowill.



Think of it...



...as the absence of love.

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:46 am

Paraphrasing what I lost in the post I tried to write a moment ago... #@%&*...

If you had said "character" Id have a hard time choosing between Greymung and Guttlekraw, with Greymung probably being the least liked of the two, as the main difference between them is that Greymung let himself turn slothful and gluttonous but Guttlekraw let his defeat strengthen him. They are both vile creatures though, ruining the image of the whole Troll race.

My list of Elves I dislike has included most of thr main characters at one time or other, but the ones I dislike the most are:

Rayak: (had a better version but lost it) he cant get his head out of his rear long enough to listen to anyone. If he would he might be the perfect elf he thinks himself to be, but he reinterprets anything said into a pat on the back. He redeemed himself when he absorbed Winnie, but he seems to be sliding back into his old "Im right, you'll see!"

Tier (or teir, or tear, or whatever, lost the will to care). To a degree, he wouldnt have made the list except for the stupid swooning lovesick look he has anytime he is drawn with Ember.  There is a joke about the selfie "duckface" and the porn star "animal struck by car" faces (or however Jeff Foxworthy put it)... Teir has his own stupid look that makes me gag every time I see it.

Sunstream: just barely makes the list just because he doesnt seem like the child of either Cutter or Leetah to me.  He seems a little too flamboiant and girly or something. Havent ever been quite able to put my finger on why he makes me want to skip the parts he is in.  It isnt as bad anymore and he might fall off the list, and I actually enjoy him when he takes on Winnie (even if he was badly outmatched and lost for a time), but Discovery about made me want to puke.

Had some others on the list but cant remember them at the moment.  Generally its the characters that are being unrealistically stupid in the story (like Rayak most of the time) that rub me the wrong way.  Elves like Winnie (who is evil and flawed, but realistically so) make good storytelling (I have actually known several people that revel in other's misery, even their own, to the point of self destruction. They are aware of whats going on around them, listen to others, and try to manipulate things to fit their needs. I guess there are a few people that resemble Rayak in that unthinking holier than thou blunderdon approach to life, causing havoc and believing everyone is the better for it, but they disgust me more than those who understand that they are making others miserable and revel in it- at least they are being honest to themselves.
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Tymber

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:34 pm

TrollHammer wrote:

Rayak: (had a better version but lost it) he cant get his head out of his rear long enough to listen to anyone. If he would he might be the perfect elf he thinks himself to be, but he reinterprets anything said into a pat on the back. He redeemed himself when he absorbed Winnie, but he seems to be sliding back into his old "Im right, you'll see!"

I like Rayek, for the fact that he was the character I loved to hate, and hate to love! He's so arrogant and such - but that's what made him so different than everyone else - made him stand out!
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Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:45 pm

TrollHammer wrote:
Sunstream: just barely makes the list just because he doesnt seem like the child of either Cutter or Leetah to me. He seems a little too flamboiant and girly or something. Havent ever been quite able to put my finger on why he makes me want to skip the parts he is in. It isnt as bad anymore and he might fall off the list, and I actually enjoy him when he takes on Winnie (even if he was badly outmatched and lost for a time), but Discovery about made me want to puke.

Nothing wrong with being flamboyant and spending a large part of your life as a rainbow coloured fish! sunstream
As for not seeming like the child of Cutter or Leetah; the moment that made me go "Yup! That's Cutter's kid right there!" was just after Korafay's birth and he was all "Euhm... excuse me, sir, could you maybe not eat my newborn daughter for breakfast?" (sightly less polite and with fewer words.)
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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:52 pm

Redhead Ember wrote:
TrollHammer wrote:
Sunstream: just barely makes the list just because he doesnt seem like the child of either Cutter or Leetah to me.  He seems a little too flamboiant and girly or something. Havent ever been quite able to put my finger on why he makes me want to skip the parts he is in.  It isnt as bad anymore and he might fall off the list, and I actually enjoy him when he takes on Winnie (even if he was badly outmatched and lost for a time), but Discovery about made me want to puke.

Nothing wrong with being flamboyant and spending a large part of your life as a rainbow coloured fish! sunstream
As for not seeming like the child of Cutter or Leetah; the moment that made me go "Yup! That's Cutter's kid right there!" was just after Korafay's birth and he was all "Euhm... excuse me, sir, could you maybe not eat my newborn daughter for breakfast?" (sightly less polite and with fewer words.)

See, I agree with Trollhammer. Suntop, after Siege and Broken Wheel... just seemed... off.

Like he is neither (to me, anyway) - son of Cutter or Leetah. I'd be more inclined he acts like the son of Leetah and Rayek, more than Cutter.
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Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:57 am

But isn't that exactly the thing with Suntop/Sunstream? He's allowed to be who he is, rather than simply the son of Cutter and Leetah. A lot of his early struggles stemmed from the fact that Cutter simply didn't understanding him, and - in Full Circle - from the fact that he felt like he ought to act more 'wolfridery' to get Cutter's approval.
Suntop Uncomfortable sunstream
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Tymber

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:42 pm

Redhead Ember wrote:
But isn't that exactly the thing with Suntop/Sunstream? He's allowed to be who he is, rather than simply the son of Cutter and Leetah. A lot of his early struggles stemmed from the fact that Cutter simply didn't understanding him, and - in Full Circle - from the fact that he felt like he ought to act more 'wolfridery' to get Cutter's approval.
Suntop Uncomfortable sunstream

Which is absolutely fine (that he should become his own person) - but it was something that I think sort of ruined the character for me. Not sure if how it was handled, or just simply disliking the personality he developed.
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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:45 pm

Modern-day Redlance and Pike, because of the chin-hiding beards. Bearclaw and Strongbow, too -- to a lesser degree. I do understand Wolfriders eventually grow "face fur" -- that's been established early on, and it makes sense, too. Personally, subjectively, I just don't think it suits them aesthetically.

Also, Dart's thistle-hair. Why? WHY? drunken

I liked Disney's Little Mermaid but could never warm up to the Wavedancers, old or new. They just seemed too cartoony to feel elfin to me, if that even makes sense within an EQ comic book context. Their personalities seemed "plastic", too -- I didn't give them much of a chance, admittedly. I dunno. Just not my thing.

Winnowill once she was cut loose from all belonging. Almost unapproachable. All about muahaha-ing revenge. Making random monsters. This just wasn't very interesting to me any more. She had overstayed her welcome -- at least the welcome I had given her.

Somewhat similarly: buckles-and-puffed-sleeves Rayek, blasting stuff superhero-style. There's only so much self-unaware arrogance and overpowered magic I can take in a single character. Maybe it's because I'm not into superheroes in general. That's just not a side of comic books I really care about.

Honourable non-elf mention: that insect tribe!

Honourable elf non-mention: Teir. I always liked him.
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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:09 pm

hmmm....i was just reading this thread, but everyone's answers got me thinking, and i began to wonder "who IS my least favorite elf?" i know i like a fair majority of the female elves, especially the pregnancy obsessed ones because that reflects me. guys i'm kinda meh about, i can take or leave most of them.

ya know...i think because i can think of reasons for it, i'd say Kahvi. just because...well i'm kinda disappointed about how underwhelming she could be at times! and such an abrasive attitude...i kinda fail to see how she could have inspired the Go-back's to follow her for so long. and it seemed she had SUCH potential, being the daughter of a mad chief...abused and abandoned, immersed in a pool soaked in high ones ages old magic. come on! i betcha there could have been some damn cool things done with that. so that's my answer until i can think of more.
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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:59 pm

See, and I love Kahvi for the bulldog she was. I do agree that there were some directions she could have gone that would have been more flavorful, and her end seems to underline what you're saying.  In a way, though I can relate to her experience, and perhaps that's what makes her special to me, among other things.

Tymber wrote:
See, I agree with Trollhammer. Suntop, after Siege and Broken Wheel... just seemed... off.

Like he is neither (to me, anyway) - son of Cutter or Leetah. I'd be more inclined he acts like the son of Leetah and Rayek, more than Cutter.

That would be a funny twist... we already know Elfin sexuality has no human comparison... wouldn't it be funny if it turned out that if an elf Recognizes two different partners at the same time, they could conceive by both simultaneously? She just never says anything about it to Cutter, and Rayak's all "thanks, BYE!"... or, of course, the whole Kahvi/Venka thing and Leetah ends up with the same thoughts of hiding it from him...

(And, yeah, I know Suntop has blond hair and lighter skin... well Ember has red hair that isn't really explained away... and further it seems to me that a healer of Leetah's ability might have been able to play with such things pretty easy, perhaps even in her sleep without even realizing it, making Suntop 'Cutter's son'. Winnie Evil )

It hit me that there's another thing that bothers me about Suntop/Sunstream.... As far as I can tell, he's been training his whole life to be this conduit for all the others to communicate with each other (which now seems to be more like a beacon to the Palace, or automated telemarketer for the palace... or something, I'm not quite sure anymore).

Now we find out that he is just setting up the voicemail/phone-tree for the Palace, and after he hands that off he will serve NO purpose at all?  

Its like a telecom tech that was put through years of school to do the cabling and equipment setup for a business, then once it's all installed: "Thanks for the help, you're fired. Hope things go well for you in the future!"

But in this case, instead of the telecom tech being able to just hire on at a new business.... there was only the one who fired him that he knows how to work on the equipment... AND he's supposedly immortal, so therefore he has a nice long time to... do what?

The final kicker is that he seems OK with all of this, like it was all well worth it: getting wrapped for years, Recognition Separation Disorder, getting his mind seized by Winnie for a time, then by the Scroll for another period of time....  Naw, it was all worth it to be used and discarded.

I'd thought originally that the whole thought was that he would become a fixture of the Palace, like the original High-Ones who were wrapstuffed and dedicated to whatever task they needed to oversee (remember the pilot?)  It's almost like in the interim, WP decided "Oh, that's to extreme, people won't like it, I just have him do this for a little while..."

So much buildup for so little results... Anti-climactic for me.
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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:21 pm

He is probably going to be some vice-master of the palace or something like that. I mean, he can read other people's mind, he discovers new magic abilities (the stuff he can do in fish-form), has probably a better grip on palace-stuff than Skywise...

But yes, his main task is finished. He will become a background character like Savah.

Kahvi was cool in the beginning, but the mini-series ruined her story (as a character as well as story-wise)

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:52 am

TrollHammer wrote:
well Ember has red hair that isn't really explained away...

Always figured that was basically a mix between Leetah's darker auburn and Cutter's blond hair.
Leetah Smile + Cutter Smile = Ember

And human-genetics doesn't apply to elves anyway, how did blond Sunstream and dark-haired Brill end up with a blueish-haired daughter?
Unless of course Christina's theory - that the parents of Brill and Krill were Haze and Farbright - is true.
:haze:
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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:03 am

TrollHammer wrote:

Tymber wrote:
See, I agree with Trollhammer. Suntop, after Siege and Broken Wheel... just seemed... off.
Like he is neither (to me, anyway) - son of Cutter or Leetah. I'd be more inclined he acts like the son of Leetah and Rayek, more than Cutter.
That would be a funny twist... we already know Elfin sexuality has no human comparison... wouldn't it be funny if it turned out that if an elf Recognizes two different partners at the same time, they could conceive by both simultaneously?

I actually did this in Stonehowl. A female (Skyshade) recognized twins (Warsong & Wardance) at the same time (the idea that the twins are of the "same" person) and conceived twins (Dusk {son}, Dawn {daughter}).

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:16 pm

Tymber wrote:
So there isn't a single character - when they appear on panel, you go, "Blah. Them."

Like when Original Quest came out, for me it was Rainsong and Woodlock. They were so just... in the background... lack any "Urmph!" that made them stick out. Ever.
No, there isn't. Not to this extent.
I like characters ... because they are well written, likeable ... and sometimes just because. I couldn't even tell why they ring a bell. I like to dislike characters ... for the same reason.
And I'm indifferent towards others ... because they are badly written, boring or too much extras. Slightly annoyed about one or the other but more likely curious how they could be if they'd get a spotlight.

I never go "Blah" or "Kill'em off!" ... well, I did with Kureel but that was his role. ^^ I simply don't take enough notice, don't invest enough passion to get annoyed or "wish them off".


Well ... I took the effort to think seriously about it. Do I dislike a tribe, a character because of the way they are written? Because of their decisions? YUP, I've found one.

I found a tribe I basically like, want to learn more about - and dislike because of certain mind set. The Go-Backs.
And I found a character I dislike . She suffers from her tribal stamp - and poor decision. Krim.


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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:31 pm

I don't like the Wavedancers. I was kind of fond of the original ones, but they don't count anymore, so...

I don't like how so many of the female characters have to be "shaped" to be Good Mothers/nurturers. It happened with Kahvi in her miniseries, with Nightfall, with Leetah later on. As if they couldn't be good characters unless their personalities included those trains.

I stopped liking Winnowill when she stopped having motivations for her actions and turned into Snidely Whiplash after Kings.
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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:12 pm

Embala wrote:
And I found a character I dislike . She suffers from her tribal stamp - and poor decision. Krim.


ROFL

Yeah, I liked her until she's all "Im gonna die no for no good reason"

I mean, the Gobacks are like the Klingons "it is a good day to die" way of going into battle, but neither "race" throw their lives away if theres an option. I mean, shoot,if it means my family will be garanteed safe, Ill fight to the death, but Im not gonna go "oh, hey, castration of someone annoying is worth my life"

I mean, how hard would it have been to move the blade one inch to the right or left and hit the femoral artery? Dont tell me she never butchered a deer. Boom. No more Djuns, and no more Djun.
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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:03 am

No more Angrif, yes, but more Djuns after. Angrif still has brothers or sons, I think.

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:26 am

I thought he killed them all on the way "up", or was that an ancestor?
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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:04 am

Unless Junn isn't something like a family-name* ("Windsor"), then there will be Junns for times to come Razz Just because one dynasty of kings disappears goes the institution as well



*which doesn't seem to be the case

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:21 am

Redhead Ember wrote:
TrollHammer wrote:
well Ember has red hair that isn't really explained away...

Always figured that was basically a mix between Leetah's darker auburn and Cutter's blond hair.
Leetah Smile + Cutter Smile = Ember

And human-genetics doesn't apply to elves anyway, how did blond Sunstream and dark-haired Brill end up with a blueish-haired daughter?
Unless of course Christina's theory - that the parents of Brill and Krill were Haze and Farbright - is true.
:haze:

Suntop and Ember's hair makes perfect sense. Ember has red hair because her mother and aunt have red hair. Ember's is lighter because her dad had pale blond hair. So he probably gave her highlights. Sunstream has Joyleaf's hair.

If elfin genetics have no rhyme or reason-- then why did Wendy go to the trouble of drawing characters to look like their parents. Why does Tyleet have orange hair? Why do Ember and Sunstream look like a combo of Cutter and Leetah in their facial features. Why does Dewshine have her dad's hair? Why does Dart look like a combination of his father and mother? Why did Crescent? Why is Skywise almost a carbon copy of Sh?ale... with his mother's personality? Why does Windkin look a lot like a pre-shaped Tyldak? Why did Pike have Rain's bushy red hair? Why did Rainsong and Woodlock give birth to a trio of blond kids? Why did Wing share his mom's round cheeks and big eyes? Why does Rainsong mention her father when she knows her son will be a healer? Why was there an expectation that Redlance "son of treeshapers" would learn to shape plants? And so on and so on.

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:17 pm

Basically, i agree with this:

Embala wrote:
I like characters ... because they are well written, likeable ... and sometimes just because. I couldn't even tell why they ring a bell. I like to dislike characters ... for the same reason.
And I'm indifferent towards others ... because they are badly written, boring or too much extras. Slightly annoyed about one or the other but more likely curious how they could be if they'd get a spotlight.

And this:
Davrille wrote:
I stopped liking Winnowill when she stopped having motivations for her actions and turned into Snidely Whiplash after Kings.

That would be my main complaint about any character. I don't like it when they become two dimensional. Winnowil used to be fleshed out and complex. She was flattened to a revenge seeking madwoman. Rayek got pretty flattened out as well, I think. I really hope that they regain some depth in Final Quest.

Davrille wrote:
I don't like how so many of the female characters have to be "shaped" to be Good Mothers/nurturers. It happened with Kahvi in her miniseries, with Nightfall, with Leetah later on. As if they couldn't be good characters unless their personalities included those trains.
I hadn't noticed this-- but now that you point it out, I can see it. It's a pretty standard trope for women/female characters, isn't it?

Maybe Ember was intended to break that.

Regarding Sunstream, TrollHammer wrote:

TrollHammer wrote:
I'd thought originally that the whole thought was that he would become a fixture of the Palace, like the original High-Ones who were wrapstuffed and dedicated to whatever task they needed to oversee (remember the pilot?)  It's almost like in the interim, WP decided "Oh, that's to extreme, people won't like it, I just have him do this for a little while..."

Yes, you are right-- that seems to fit better. It did strike me as odd that he would just stand there, frozen. Isn't he going to get tired? Given his current state of being, wrapstuff makes a lot of sense. I mean... what is he going to do? Stand for ten years in the scroll room, without eating or drinking?

Maybe Sunstream gets more action in the next issue. Or maybe, before they wrapstuffed him, he needed to get his magic going. Maybe he will end up in a cocoon after all-- taking Orolin's place in that chair?

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:17 pm

but didn't Angrif say he hunted them down and killed them so there wouldn't be any claims to the throne?*checks*

ah yes. issue 4 of final quest, page 6. "by a pretender, one of Grohmul Djun's thousand bastard spawn, whom i've, since, systematically eliminated" so supposedly, Angrif is the last of the line now. unless one of his women/his wife just so happens to be pregnant from before he got neutered.

also remember, both sons were killed by Ember's tribe.

though i can agree....Krim really should have sliced an artery and just KILLED Angrif instead of severely wounding and slowly possibly killing him. killing Angrif would have been worth her life, rather than stabbing him in the cajones. but then i guess we wouldn't have a familiar antagonist to drive the storyline. sigh.
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