3D Printing, Resources, Discussion, etc...

I don't know who else is even interested in 3d modeling and/or printing besides possibly those in the dolling threads, but in setting up my printer I came across a resource that I'd not really thought of along the way.

As such, it might be useful to tabletop RPG players, maybe the Dollers (I don't really know what is desired for that), and anyone in general that is trying to lay out ideas for stories or anything else of that nature.

For printable RPG tiles and figures:
http://www.fatdragongames.com/

and their map builder:
https://studio.dungeonprint.com/



This is a group that has a lot of youtube videos on 3d printing, targeted at tabletop RPG models. The website link is to their... CAD program? Anyway, it's a program that helps lay out scenes and maps for roll play, and they have models as well. While their models are not Elf Quest inspired, and to a degree it might be hard to generate maps from a Elf's perspective (since they don't really need trails), there are a few things that might be useful.  As a format, it might be something that would allow EQ models made (I'm thinking the Father Tree for one) that would be compatible with this.

Anyway, as there isn't much out there I know of for EQ models besides a few on www.thingiverse.com (very scarce), and there wasn't anything here about this, I'd start a thread, post up a few things I've been looking at, and see what others know.

So far, what I'm using:

Blender, for 3d modeling, its free, but can be... trying to learn. Lots of support and tutorials out there though.

Thingiverse for models, however I've been downloading from archive.org as someone uploaded a couple million files there and the proper web-site is problematic for mobile users to browse models now.

Ender 3 is the printer I'll be using. They have a new model now so the old one is on sale for $165 US on amazon.  The above Youtube channel has an assembly video that is quite in-depth and had a lot of stuff I hadn't thought about when I was looking at printers.

I have been playing with MakeHuman, which is a free program that is intended to make it easier to generate characters, to the point of potentially bringing into rendering software like Blender to make photo-realistic (their words, not mine) I don't know about the photo-realistic part, but it does seem to be easy to morph the features of the character into a variety of characteristics and poses. It does not have a lot of clothing options, and be forewarned, until you select clothes there aren't any on the model.

Anyway, I tried to figure out how to make a elf with it, to see if there is any kind of EQ like figures that could be made up. I also figured I wouldn't set gender and whatnot to try to make a 'base elf' that could further be modified into the various characters. There is enough freedom to put points on the ears and point the skull into a 'conehead' type, but it doesn't seem like I can get it right, and the ear settings max out before getting to quite the right shape, and far too small to be Elfquest elves. Also, it seems to glitch out around the sids of the eyebrows when the ears get close to the right shape and it gets ridges at the temples.

Anyway, I don't know if its glitchy or if I didn't do things right (which is highly likely) but the face turns into a scowl when I try to get a pointy chin and small lips, so when I tried for a High-One (using Timmain as a reference), it ended up looking more like the grumpy old Wavedancer leader (Surge?).

There isn't anything I have found to add fins and whatnot for wavedancers, as it is intended to be used for making humans (as the name implies), and I haven't looked at the developer's notes to see if the range of changes can be set for something else (haven't tried trolls yet, but so far I haven't seen a way to make figures that stocky).

The good thing is that if all the other stuff can get figured out, it results in a fully rigged model that could be used for mocap, games, or animation without much additional work. Considering that characters were half the hang up on making the game I was attempting, this is a nice solution, especially for free.

If someone wants to see and critique what I've gotten so far I can post or PM a screenshot. or if someone has messed with this program and got somewhere with it and wants to compare notes, let me know.


As far as 3d printing goes, though, its all good and bad. I can't seem to track down what makes a good print and what makes a bad one, since I can print out a skull model or catapult and it comes out great, but a dash panel looks horrible and most things end up with the bottom layer messed up. Learning curve, I tell myself.

When I finally get something printed that is EQ related and not embarrassing to show, I'll post up.

I  response to:

Yeee wrote:

So without further ado, she got a rough-tough outfit with a Monster High tunic (this is supposed to represent a rat's paw), an old cut-up gold chain, and a treasure chest from our "Tedi" store.

She was searching for a good place to hide her treasure...



"Oh, a sandbox! " she squealed, "that's just the place I need!"
She's been living with me ever since.

I figured Id mention a few things I learned to minimize printing artifacts. Theres plenty of videos and other how tos out there, and many more knowledgeable than I am, but I still like thinking about these things.

Different filaments will result in different finishes and can be post-processed differently, and I've learned they have some different ways to get the most out of them. Some of these methods do run the risk offending some people's senses (odors) or raise alarm bells (chemicals or whatnot) use your judgement on what is acceptable for you.

PLA: for figures and other "non use" items this is my go-to. It can be printed at almost any speed, and certain types have really great results. My first printing experience was printing a fox miniature and a DnD skeleton guarding treasure using Ovation PLA Silk in plain white, and they came out amazing. Only issues seemed to be on the last layers, and Ill get to that in a moment. PLA is a really low temperature plastic, and hot glue will melt it. A trick for sticking things is to use a "3D Pen", which amounts to a tiny hot glue gun sized to use printer filament. They can be purchased for $30 or so and use the same filament used in the original print, making such repairs, changes, additions and whatnot fit in better and with more control. Using PLA in general I have had good layer adheasion and smooth layer transitions compared to others. The only major down side I have had is lower durability: any shock can break it easily (brittle) and it flows when under pressure- if a joint/socket or a cover for something is initially snug and tight it will relax over time and get loose at the contact point. Interestingly, this makes running screws into it good in that the material will flow around the threads and get better over time, but the clamping force on the screw head backs off as the force pushes the material away.  There is supposedly a way to vapor smooth PLA but I dont remember what the solvent is to be used. In theory, a heat gun could help too, but I have have messed up prints with a little too much heat gun.

PETG: I ended up running a lot of PETG after the first roll of PLA, as we got a pack with a lot of colors, so it sas around almost exclusively for a bit. It felt like a mistake at first, because the stringing was horrible and required a lot of worm to fix later, but I learned how to optimize the print settings and fix this a bit, and a flash of a heat gun removes what bit of stringing is left. I have not found a solvent that will smooth it, but found the standard methods (below) help drastically, az well as printing very slowly. I seem to have trouble on my printer with "inside dimensions" more than any other and have not figured out if its the material or printer settings: if I print a tube, say with outside dimension of 1 inch and inside diameter of 0.75 inch, the print outside will be nearly perfectly 1 inch, but the inside diameter is always around 0.005 inches or so smaller than what I sent to it. I think this is due to the material 'dragging' from the nozzle while still hot, which wraps it tight on the outside dimensions but draws it in for inside dimensions (I mostly model and make more mechanical/functional designs than organic shapes, so bearing surfaces can be frustrsting to get right). The other thing with this is, while it seems to be a usual practice to sand prints to remove defects and hand fit parts together, for me sanding makes the surface 'fluff up' and get a worse fit, using a drill to ream inside diameters and holes likewise has a less than desireable effect (the plastic stretches out of the way so a half inch bit clearing a half inch hole still resjlts in it being too small for a balf inch pin to fit without a press). On the plus side, though, its really durable and handles stress better than PLA. I make tools, machine parts, and game figures from it and have really good results. I have not found a solvent that will smooth it though or affect the finish, but it is compatible with a lot of lubricants, so joints can be relatively tight and still move smoothly without the plastic breaking down from most greases. (Its resistsnt to most petroleum products, in my experience. PETG is almost identical to pop bottle plastic and I have used a pop bottle as a fuel tank for a lawn mower that lasted for years).  PETG really bennefits from planning the model's orientation and using 'random layer start' for smooth surfaces, or forcing the layer start to an edge on prints that have sharp edges.

ABS: most people get their defenses up when ABS is brought up, stating toxicity and fumes and smell... admittantly I have onlh had the one roll of Ovation ABS to go from but cant defect a smell when printing with it. Its a pain to print, doesnt want to stick to the bed, and is tricky to get to print accurately as it expands and contracts greatly with heat and cold. It is, however, far better for printing stuff that is going to be used outside, and is, in theory, better for impact. It has a major benefit, though- it vapor smooths with acetone very well. If done right, the surface can be like glass, with few if any layer lines showing. It also trims and cuts predictibly compared to PETG. Again, not everyone's cup of tea, but has some good points to consider. ASA has many similar results, so Im told.

ASA: I havent worked with it but a friend of mine swears by it. He says it has all the same benefits of ABS without the smell and holds up to weather and sunlight better (like for car parts).

In general (just realized, this is all mostly for Filament (FDM) printers, but resin can benefit from some of this as well)

1) Orient the print so it is not aligned with any single motor axis. I use an Ender 3 to print with and it has a single motor movement for each axis, so my prints come out best when flatish faces are near 45 degrees to either the X or Y axis. This isnt as crucial as the Z axis, as the step smoothing is better on the Z for my printer, but the difference it made on the XY was tremendus: I made a dash panel for my wife's truck that is almost flat, but curves slightly, and with it aligned with the Y axis it had a bad wood-grain looking pattern in it that looked horrible from the stepper motor hardly moving. Rotating to 45 degrees on my printer not only fixed this issue, it printed faster, since non-print travel could use both X and Y motors at full speed in transit.

2) Don't fear the Z: I print a lot of things vertically. The panel mentioned above was printed standing on edge, which might seem counter-intuitive, but it helps with a lot of things-
     Prints faster in some print jobs, since the X and Y axis dont have to spend as much time traveling from point to another on transits. There are more Z steps, and Z axis is slower, but it always moves in one direction and doesnt backtrack, whereas X and Y will backtrack to catch things it couldnt get on the first pass.
     Less support waste: sure, the supports are taller, but especially if using 'tree' supports, they are hollow and the cross sectional area is much less. If I had printed the above panel on its back, it would have doubled the support waste. (Worse in some prints)
     Control of layer line grain (see below) I printed the above mentioned panel on its side because I liked the verticle grain that resulted.  In the case of printing figures or organic shapes, its hard to plan around, but in the rat-print in the quote above, Id tey printing the head cut in half sideways, so the layer lines would be verticle and appear to flow with hair better. This doesnt get rid of them, but creative layer lines can help add to instead of detract from a print, especially if the material refuses to smooth with other methods.
     Removal of layer line grain from horizontal curved surfaces: if I had printed the dash panel on its back, it would have horrible 'wood graining' as each step in the Z axis is a hard step and cannot be smoothed easily without some major time taken to rework the way the slicer treats these lines or increase the print quality (step height) to absurd levels. I have not had good results with smaller Z layer steps, other than to make the print job take much longer and likely to fail on bottom layers.
      Less bottom layer issues: mind you, Im not saying 'first layer' issues, I mean any layer that would be considered an 'under side' in a print job, especially those using supports. I dont know if its a common issue, but with my printer the bottom most layers on supports end up having all sorts of adheasion and finish issues, and if I can reduce the 'support' surface area using any meams, I reduce the areas with issues. Putting flat things on their side cuts down on the support contact area and this problem.

There are other benefits to printing on edge, but thats the major reasons for me.

3) be careful with infill, especially with thin outer wall prints. When designing the panel for my wife's truck I had a lot kf trial and error, and didnt want to waste filament if possible. On one print, I went with single layer outer wall and like 10% infill, and it made horrible lines through the print. It actually did  far better with zero infill, and printed it hollow (kind of like "vase mode") and, while the center deformed a bit, the outer edges and anchors I was testing came out great and it looked smooth, except for a ripple (next)

4) clean EVERYTHING on the printer. Unless your printer is in a clean room for making electronics or hard drives, it will get dusty, and the dust will affect everything. Dirty filament can cause dirt in your print, plugged nozzles, layer adheasion issues, and more. My worst issue is with the axis guides and rollers getting buildup- at one point (above panel print in #3) I thought it was clean but the finishe showed a very noticeable wave in it from dust buildup in the axis ways. You couldnt feel or or measure it, but it was very prominant in PETG. A thurough cleaning fixed it.  I also seem to have issues with the layers having some layer micro-shift at random, making the irregular layer lines like in the quote above- Im guessing the Z axis screw or belts have dust in them causing the base plate to shift a bit ar random, or my Y axis similarly has random dirt tipping the base plate at random... when the printer was new and clean I didnt notice the random shift as bad as when it has been sitting a while. (This should not be an issue with resin, but I dont have a resin printer).

5) if possible, sand, fill and paint your prints (organic shapes). The right kind of paint should fill in layer lines and smooth the print, plus you can influence the surface pattern with various spray paints (hammered, granite, flocking, flat, gloss, candy apple, iridescent, and more). Air brush can add more detail, but specifically the layer and glue lines can be hidden with filler and paint.

6) plan your print out to minimize supports and use printer artifacts to advantage: layer artifacts are addressed above, here I want to highlight breaking up the model to further help your print. If the print as a line of semmitry, consided 'cutting' the model in half along this line and setting this edge on the flat of the bed, then gluing it together later. This can be done without remodeling the object in the slicer by dropping the object half through the bed in software, duplicating the object, flipping it 180 degrees and doing it again for the other half. I did an airplane like this and it required no supports this way. Only bad thing with this method is there are no alignment features, so it relies on your ability to align the parts while glueing.

Im sure Ill remember more later, post your experiences as well.