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kathleen3.0

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Fri Feb 26, 2016 2:16 pm

A female is a dog or a bear, a person is a woman, or girl. Also, amazingly, there's more than one way to BE a woman or girl, and being kind, quiet, or shy is just as valid a way of being a woman as being vivacious, athletic, or witty.
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Miss Gillespie

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:08 pm

Disney is a company that sells merchandise and are as such free to portray whatever they think will sell best. Why should they be obliged to produce stuff just to satisfy public sentiment? Of course, there are more ways to portray a woman or a girl, but if those kind of characters don't sell, well...

Speaking of one-dimensional characters, are there that many types of male characters? Do we have ugly, uncool male leads? Aren't they all not basically the same trope?

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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:35 pm

I world for them as an artist, in products and animation. They are very much a bout what sells.

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Miss Gillespie

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:29 pm

I'm not saying that the artists of Disney don't put a lot of effort and work into it, but I'm also pretty sure they don't have a lot of say in what Disney publishes and what not.

The personal opinion of an animator is for the management board likely not as important as the result of some market research.

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:08 pm

Well... There is a difference between features and tv and direct to video. They all have different departments and processes. I worked in direct to video and they were all about churning out product- sequels mostly- that would sell to kids. I mean- the artists and directors cared, sure... But quality of story and art was not a big priority to the management. They wanted to churn it out. I don't know about TV- I think they had more flexibility episode to episode. Features-- it's the director. What gets made is determined by managent-- but the director determines the look and feel of the film. The artists care a lot and they slave over making it just right. I watched the evolution of Rapunzel-- because I was in consumer products at the time and we were designing style guides based on her. Her face just kept getting rounder and her eyes bigger and bigger. We agreed that the designer was probably basing her on his daughter. Big eyes and round face have been a thing since little Mermaid-- but Rapunzel pushed it-- and Frozen ran with it. (Frozen... Ug. Frozen was like watching an elaborate advertisement for dolls. and ball gowns.) I don't think there is any going back any time soon.

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kathleen3.0

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:05 pm

I dunno. Moana doesn't look as bad, and I'm digging what I've seen of her so far.
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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:22 pm

You mean this girl?


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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:34 pm

Or these girls? Cus- frankly- what's the difference?


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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:37 pm

Someone stole my face!


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kathleen3.0

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:29 pm

... That's a fan manip.
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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:46 pm

The others arent

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:48 pm

It's the same face. Over and over again. Just with different eye and hair color and very slight changes.

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:59 pm

I just googled Disney characters female and got this. Now, I disagree that they are all the exact same face-- but they are all almost the exact same face and certainly the same style of face. Rapunzel, the two chicks from Frozen and this new princess though have the exact same face- barring coloring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP5UkYPECm4




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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:24 pm

Was wondering when Disney's reuse of the same face would show up.

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:57 pm

It probably saves on production.

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:07 am

It's just them being lazy. Or if that Disney artist is to be believed, it's because 'women are hard to animate' so they keep to the same base.

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:20 am

Honestly, though, that's been going on since the eighties. Seriously, flatten Rapunzel out and there's not much difference between her and Ariel, and it gets worse in black and white.

Moana is different, though not by much, but a lot of people in the Pacific Islander community seem pleased with her from what I've seen. She has a much larger, wider nose, different shaped eyes, and a firm, determined mouth(but that's just judging by art release, it could all go to it by the time the movie comes out). She still falls under that unfortunate Disney style, too large eyes, round face, etc. Her body is thin, but she has muscular legs, which I really like, it makes her look like she's got her feet planted firmly on the ground.

I'm also excited about this movie because after a million years of frozen, Baby sister might finally have a new heroine.
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jaRf

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:29 am

> same base of face for all female Disney chars
That's just "corporate identity". ;-)


On topic start: Wow. Was she drunk when she wrote it? Sounds like from the depth of web-browser war or OS wars.
I haven't seen that snow princess movie (nor any other Disney movie for years (except Starwars) since I hate all the sudden dancing and singing) but I found nothing about that doll or whatever it is horrible or repulsive.
Okay, if it does not go with the character's behaviour in the movie that is not awesome and clearly a mistake in communication between the script authors / movie makers and the merchandise makers.

Also that smirk... well, this is one of the possible expressions on a human face. To everybody with a full set of facial muscles and control over them. So there is no patent on facial expressions. And nobody "invented" that special expression. Maybe even the apes from >100'000 years ago did it.
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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:42 pm

@jaRf wrote:
> same base of face for all female Disney chars
That's just "corporate identity". ;-)
No it's not. They didn't do that with their earlier princesses. Aurora, Snow White, Cinderella, etc. all have varied facial structures. I know- because it worked with the team that first tried to design the character of Cinderella for her direct to video sequel and they had a terrible time of it- because she was so human looking. Then I worked for the team in products that dealt with streamlining princesses and other characters (but mostly specifically the princesses) for sales purposes (illustrating backpacks, greeting cards, toy packaging, etc.) The classic princesses do not have the facial structure. Nor do Mickey, Goofy and Donald Duck. Yet somehow corporate identity remained intact.

And it's not just Disney that does this with female characters. So it's not their unique visual trademark.
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On topic start: Wow. Was she drunk when she wrote it? Sounds like from the depth of web-browser war or OS wars.
She was probably just referring to that expression by its most popular name as a trope:" the Dreamworks smirk."
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I haven't seen that snow princess movie (nor any other Disney movie for years (except Starwars) since I hate all the sudden dancing and singing) but I found nothing about that doll or whatever it is horrible or repulsive.
Okay, if it does not go with the character's behaviour in the movie that is not awesome and clearly a mistake in communication between the script authors / movie makers and the merchandise makers.
It's not a mistake. It's just a lot of money thrown into a movie with a lame script and chaotic art direction.
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Also that smirk... well, this is one of the possible expressions on a human face. To everybody with a full set of facial muscles and control over them. So there is no patent on facial expressions. And nobody "invented" that special expression. Maybe even the apes from >100'000 years ago did it.
But lately, in animated movies, they use it over and over and over again on the faces of female characters (and particularly in advertising) as code for 'this is a smart, savvy, capable, modern girl'-- and it's getting really old. About as repetitive as that facial structure.

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:52 pm

I get where she is coming from with this- but at the same time... I see your point. Yes, maybe that was just a little too much vitriol for a reaction to a cartoon. Maybe she was having an off day. Twitter doesn't really leave room for reflection or editing.

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Mon May 02, 2016 7:11 am

Frozen's art is one of the prime reasons I dislike CGI. That and how slipshod the story was and how Disney has become Princess obsessed. In Rapunzel and Snow Queen, the main girls were peasant not princess. Anyway, Wendy definitely goofed on her post and you should never hold animal life above that of people.
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