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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:51 pm

Well, I personally think Frozen is an incredibly bad movie with some of the best animation I've seen. I think the character designs are cliche and so are most of the expressions on Elsa. That doesn't matter though-- because I'm pretty sure the entire point of the film is just to sell toys and pretty dresses to little girls-- possibly also big girls.  

I also think that sculpt of Cutter is pretty lousy, frankly. I wouldn't choose to buy it myself. It's a terrible likeness. For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure I could do it better, personally- but I don't have time (unless someone wants to pay me?). I've never really seen a good sculpt of an Elfquest character... which confuses me because they are drawn so three dimensionally.

I don't know why anyone would complain about seeing this expression on Elsa- she wears it through most of the film. It can't be proprietary of Flynn Rider or any Elfquest character or any other character-- because it's a common expression that's been used for decades. This whole level of upset strikes me as kind of pointless from every angle.

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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:58 pm

PS-- If anyone cares, I used to work as an artist for Disney Consumer Products. It would have been my job to correct the errors on the Elsa doll. Her hair is the wrong color. Her smirk is bad. She should have one eyebrow raised to pull off that smirk. I think Wendy's redo is also quite pointless- except to point out the hair color-- because it changes the expression of the doll instead of fixing it. All in all- this isn't my job anymore, though.

The bottom line is--  sometimes these things just happen. Disney, or companies manufacturing Disney products, churn out a lot of merchandise. They don't always have time to go back and revise this.. .and sometimes it's not in the budget.

For example-- i once had to correct a shoe manufacturer that was making Little Mermaid plastic clogs. Ariel's face looked like it had been run over with a truck. I got them to fix everything except-- they couldn't seem to figure out how to make her eyes look straight at you instead of cross eyed. Finally, my boss told me "that's enough-- just leave it like that" because there wasn't enough money in that budget for them to redo it one more time and it had to ship. Sometimes this shit just happens.

Reality check:  There is no point in anyone getting outraged over it... it's a doll.

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:28 pm

oookaaaaaaaaaayyyy

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:51 pm

Ok! Very Happy Like

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:33 am

That kinda sounds like an awesome job, Lunakat. Interesting. I would go crazy finding all kinds of discrepancies and go into obsessive mode looking for the details.

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:06 am

[img][/img]

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:06 am


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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:09 am


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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:09 am

Tymber wrote:


That's why at the beginning of the thread, I said "This is why you should never follow someone you idolize" or whatever... because they begin expressing opinions that will smear whatever image you have of them in your head. I had the good fortune of meeting Wendy and Richard at SDCC _MANY_ moons ago (we're talking like 10+ years ago) and they were very kind. I was you typical crazed fan who broke out a pile of books, and the ElfQuest RPG to top it all off, and had them sign in. And they did so with wide smiles.

Then, comes the age of Facebook - and I started seeing a different light. And then there was a huge fall out between Richard Pini and myself over the forums. And I was seeing more of this human side - where anger, emotion, and (often times) irrational behavior was shining through.

And it just keeps increasing. It's weird.

wolfmoonsky wrote:

I just readed the last comments on facebook. A guy changed the "expression" of the doll.
Wendy: @Shawn - sorry. A sugar-glitter covered dog turd is still...you know.

.... yeah I just don't... yeah..

/sigh

[/quote]


I had the dubious honour of meeting the Pinis waaaay back in 1984 at an Elfquest convention in Scotland. Original Quest had just finished if I remember correctly, and I was a huge starry-eyed fan girl. I even spent half the weekend cosplaying as Winnowill...but despite fangirlishness, despite going with high expectations of the creators of this amazing comic, I didn't like them. The Pinis struck a slightly off, slightly jarring note even then. ConQuest was quite a small, intimate kind of convention compared to events like ComiCon, and maybe I saw a side that's usually well masked. nothing I've seen from the Pinis in recent times has surprised me - it's just not new behaviour.
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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:13 am


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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:14 am

Interesting.

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:17 am

elephant


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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:23 am

But seriously though-- what kind of crap artist would use that smirk? I can't even imagine!

You know, Dreamworks didn't invent that smirk-- and neither did Wendy Pini. It's on a sheet of standard expressions handed out by Disney animation. It's an expression that's been a standard character expression for decades, well before Elfquest. And well, well before 3D animation was invented!

The problem with it... and what Wendy is probably trying to complain about without actually articulating it... is that it's now an overused shortcut for communicating that a character is smart or savvy. It's so overused in animation lately that's it's kind of annoying.

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:58 am

The way I understood it Wendy's problem with the doll is not the smirk as such, but Elsa is never that self-confident in the movie.
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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:30 am

Redhead Ember wrote:
The way I understood it Wendy's problem with the doll is not the smirk as such, but Elsa is never that self-confident in the movie.

That's actually a pretty valid criticism, I think. The story is lame. It has plot holes you could drive a truck through-- and it doesn't handle Elsa's character well at all. The other sister is developed well enough-- but Elsa is just sort of random. They give her that expression as a short cut so they don't have to show character development. It's like "oh- she's smirking now. She must suddenly have become more clever and confident!" But why? And how? It's just a visual way of telling so they don't have to show. And wtheck with those rock people? Seriously?

I didn't get that that was her problem from the snippets of twitter that got posted here. But then, I guess I didn't see the whole shabang.

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:41 am

Kids don't care though. Kids love it. And kids are the primary market, I guess.

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:36 am

I'm with Wendy somewhat on this Frozen movie, I have seen it and I'm still not sure why people are so into it. Also, I hate that song. God I hate it. And now it's stuck in my head. Let it go, let it go... Pike Rolling
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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:30 am

My sister (who is 30 years old!) STILL stalks me on my phone and Facebook to try and get me to watch it Shocked

And my little nieces were chasing me around the house last week singing the song at the birthday party because they know I won't watch it Laughing

But yes, the prime audience is the kids, not adults, and millions upon millions of $$ were made, but to verbally bash to the point of claiming the Asian culture doesn't even get it right? Huh?

Quote :
But seriously though-- what kind of crap artist would use that smirk? I can't even imagine!

Ok, I'll admit I'm not the smartest apple in the bunch, but now I'm lost. There's different kinds of smirks? Cuz I drew/draw them on my characters and I'm just wondering now what kinds make them crappy so I know not to draw the crappy ones  Shocked

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:37 pm

Kindredsoul wrote:
Ok, I'll admit I'm not the smartest apple in the bunch, but now I'm lost. There's different kinds of smirks? Cuz I drew/draw them on my characters and I'm just wondering now what kinds make them crappy so I know not to draw the crappy ones  Shocked

I was being sarcastic. Wendy has drawn the same expression numerous times on different characters.

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:57 pm

*facepalms myself* okay, my bad!! I totally didn't catch it ><

I've been missing things left and right with my brain all week >< ><

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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:57 pm

It's not a bad movie and basic theme is the friendship and love between two very different sisters. As opposed to some nice Princess getting married to some Prince Charming she barely knows in apparently every other Disney movie in the last few decades. This movie subverts the Prince Charming cliche and it was lauded for it. But that really isn't a big deal- the big deal is that this legacy of Disney Princesses that have been forced down girl's throats for decades finally gets some subverting. It's not that this movie is so good- it is that so many others before it now look bad in comparison.
And that song is the worst earworm ever. Lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:02 pm

^ Yeah.
In most other Disney movie the plot would be solved when the Princess meets her Prince Charming, they get married and live happily ever after!
In the the main part of the plot is set into motion when the Princess meets her "Prince Charming", who of course turns out to not be so charming after all.

Been thinking a bit more about the Smirk.
The only time Elsa smirks like that in the entire movie is right at the end of Let It Go, when she's just pretending to be all cool and in control.
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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:49 am

I thought Tangled was the worst. Here's this young woman who escapes an isolated and abusive home situation. As women from abusive backgrounds often seem to do she throws herself in the arms of the first guy who shows her some kindness. He happens to be a professional thief, a habitual liar, and about as much of a narcissist as her mother was. Sure he seems reformed at the end of the movie, but IRL that rarely lasts. But then this is a fairy tale...Real life does not apply?
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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:02 pm

I'm taking this waaaay too serious don't I? Laughing Pike
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PostSubject: Re: Let it go... Let it go....   Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:01 am

Redhead Ember wrote:
^ Yeah.
In most other Disney movie the plot would be solved when the Princess meets her Prince Charming, they get married and live happily ever after!
In the the main part of the plot is set into motion when the Princess meets her "Prince Charming", who of course turns out to not be so charming after all.

Thankfully ElfQuest has an original idea...
Original series, fight humans, lose home, seek Palace... turns out to not be as great as they thought.
30 years later, Final Quest, fight humans, drama with the Palace... turns out to be not as great as they thought.

Completely original. Rolling Eyes

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