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Shadowpath

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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:48 pm

Reading Love and Memory has made me rediscover how much I love Zarhan. The amount of time he spends arguing with his cock is amazing.

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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:17 pm

That I can set goals and meet them.

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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:01 pm

@Shadowpath wrote:
Reading Love and Memory has made me rediscover how much I love Zarhan. The amount of time he spends arguing with his cock is amazing.

He... what?
Why was he arguing with his cock?
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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:35 pm

Because he's basically Recognition's plaything.

A lot of the story is him thinking back to his own history of Recognition and how he deals with it, how he feels about it.

He recognizes Wreath just as he's about to leave and it weirdly keeps coming back to bother him while he's looking for Rahnee.

He's thinking about Rahnee, seeing her face in his mind's eye and she turns into Wreath because they look similar and he jumps into a cold river because his body starts reacting to it. At one point he's running in circles, freezing from another dip into a river (at least I think he does it twice, I was laughing at that point) to physically exhaust himself from being able to get an reaction from the lingering Recognition feeling.

At another point he's scolding himself because he didn't notice the river was going to be cold and his mind just informs him 'well you wouldn't be here and be cold if you had stayed in the furs with Wreath you dummy.'

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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:12 pm

That's a great discovery, Trollbabe! Very Happy Good luck! Like

*interesting ... one day I must read those prose stories* Problem is ... first time I've tried I got a MASSIVE migraine ... and this memory sticks.
Hmm... that's a kind of discovery, too!

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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:05 pm

That DETOXING from bad food, bad media, toxic people...makes you feel free.

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Shadowpath

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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:31 pm

*Closes book* Discovered Anthology-canon Timmain would likely just go 'Yes you have helped me gain access to the Palace, now go away.'

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Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:42 pm

@Shadowpath wrote:
He recognizes Wreath just as he's about to leave and it weirdly keeps coming back to bother him while he's looking for Rahnee.

He... recognized Wreath? And Wreath also recognized Prey-Pacer, Zarhan's son!

Guess it's a good thing elves don't have family reunions...
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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:58 pm

@Redhead Ember wrote:
@Shadowpath wrote:
He recognizes Wreath just as he's about to leave and it weirdly keeps coming back to bother him while he's looking for Rahnee.

He... recognized Wreath? And Wreath also recognized Prey-Pacer, Zarhan's son!

Guess it's a good thing elves don't have family reunions...
The story suggests, really, Zarhan suggests Wreath's Recognition kinda terminated itself because Prey-Pacer is just too wolfblooded and Zarhan was a much better choice and had to happen since he was leaving.

I'm not sure there would have been much of an issue between Zarhan and Prey-Pacer, tho. 
Zarhan kinda comes of as treating Recognition as a part time job he has.
Prey-Pacer is a really, really mild character, he's likely to duck his head if it came out.

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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:47 pm

You know, I feel really sorry for Wreath in the anthologies. Sure, she is described as cunning and beautiful and is able to manipulate anyone. But though the story of how she and Prey-Pacer recognizes treats her very unfairly.

Both Softfoot and Prey-Pacer treat her with a lot of suspicion. Wreath has just recognized Prey-Pacer, it was a massive issue how it was going to play out between her, Softfoot and Prey-Pacer now. The whole secret thing, it was just so stupid in the first place, but accepted it.

She then suggests that Prey-Pacer should be chief because he actually is bringing a solution to the problem they're having, the allos. The story frames this as cunning, when to be frank, this is a great way to solve the "we're without a leader." She displays great courage to kill an allo, and Softfoot sacrifices herself for her.

Then less than a week (can't remember exact days right now) after this sorry mess, Wreath is worried about Softfoot, and just as Zharhan is leaving, she recognizes Prey-Pacers father. Which suggests that her recognition with Prey-Pacer and the whole convoluted mess about keeping it secret was for nothing. But to tell this would compromise the very secret that Softfoot nearly lost her life too.

Which is why I think Wreath kept the recognition between her and Zharhan a secret from everyone.

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Shadowpath

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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:49 pm

*Checks book* It seems to happen two months after.

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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Tue May 01, 2018 9:15 am

Oh, two months? I thought it was few days.

Regardless, what I just said still stands.

I discovered that I have missed studying. My job and a few assignments has had me in the tight ropes for weeks. It feels good to devote some days to good old fashioned studying.

I also discovered that our teacher, who I already liked, is really generous. There was a message when I logged into fronter this morning. The tests results isn't in before Thursday, and the retaking of the test is next Wednesday. But to give the people who has to retake it some time to prepare, the teacher decided to send them an email about it. Since I haven't gotten an email, I can only deduce that I have passed my test. But going out of your way to tell the people who didn't pass to get some extra days to prepare is super nice of them.

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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Tue May 01, 2018 10:17 am

@Shadowpath wrote:
@Redhead Ember wrote:
@Shadowpath wrote:
He recognizes Wreath just as he's about to leave and it weirdly keeps coming back to bother him while he's looking for Rahnee.

He... recognized Wreath? And Wreath also recognized Prey-Pacer, Zarhan's son!

Guess it's a good thing elves don't have family reunions...
The story suggests, really, Zarhan suggests Wreath's Recognition kinda terminated itself because Prey-Pacer is just too wolfblooded and Zarhan was a much better choice and had to happen since he was leaving.

I'm not sure there would have been much of an issue between Zarhan and Prey-Pacer, tho. 
Zarhan kinda comes of as treating Recognition as a part time job he has.
Prey-Pacer is a really, really mild character, he's likely to duck his head if it came out.

Isn't there a bit in the Two-Spear comic (or maybe the section of the BoTC dealing with that whole splitting-the-tribe mess) referring to Two-Spear (or rather Swift-Spear) being allowed to be present for the birth of Skyfire, specifically because she was the child of Prey-Pacer and Wreath?
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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Tue May 01, 2018 11:11 am

Yeah, but we're not talking about Two-Spear comic right now, we're talking about the anthologies. The stories are vastly different from each other. Annoyingly enough the anthologies are even different in the stories. Zwoot

In the first book Prey-Pacer and Wreath recognizes first. Softfoot is injured in the tale, so in it Skyfire HAS to be the first, no question about it.

Then in the next book, two months later, Zarhan recognises Wreath. Softfoot is still injured, but depending on when she recovered and when she and Prey-Pacer got it on, she could conceivably have born Swift-Spear in the same month or year as Skyfire.

Then in book three and onward it goes in all different directions. It suggests that Softfoot and Prey-Pacer had a daughter, Dove then it was Swift-Spear, then Skyfire. Or Dove, Skyfire and Swift-Spear. Or Swift-Spear and Skyfire.

The anthologies are full of these contradictions, unfortunately, and it is especially glaring in this. So when you read it, you just have to decide what interpretation of the anthology story you like best. I'm partial to the Zarhan theory myself because of the tension it brings.

In the Two-Spear comic there is a different view of things, and it's considered more canon per say. But everything in that timeline is kind of muddy. So when I'm writing fanfic in that timeline, I usually pick some things from the anthologies that I like, but mostly stick to things in the Two-Spear comic.

And like, in Zarhan's case I mostly defer to the anthologies because he only shows up once in the BoTC comic.

Hope this helps!

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Shadowpath

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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Tue May 01, 2018 11:23 am

@Redhead Ember wrote:
@Shadowpath wrote:
@Redhead Ember wrote:
@Shadowpath wrote:
He recognizes Wreath just as he's about to leave and it weirdly keeps coming back to bother him while he's looking for Rahnee.

He... recognized Wreath? And Wreath also recognized Prey-Pacer, Zarhan's son!

Guess it's a good thing elves don't have family reunions...
The story suggests, really, Zarhan suggests Wreath's Recognition kinda terminated itself because Prey-Pacer is just too wolfblooded and Zarhan was a much better choice and had to happen since he was leaving.

I'm not sure there would have been much of an issue between Zarhan and Prey-Pacer, tho. 
Zarhan kinda comes of as treating Recognition as a part time job he has.
Prey-Pacer is a really, really mild character, he's likely to duck his head if it came out.

Isn't there a bit in the Two-Spear comic (or maybe the section of the BoTC dealing with that whole splitting-the-tribe mess) referring to Two-Spear (or rather Swift-Spear) being allowed to be present for the birth of Skyfire, specifically because she was the child of Prey-Pacer and Wreath?
He's allowed there because he Prey-Pacer's child and the chief to be and because his father wanted him there.



I'm still making my way through, but I always had the notion Skyfire's supposed heritage is exposed later.

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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Tue May 01, 2018 11:33 am

But the narration (from Skyfire's PoV?) clearly says "our father."

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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Tue May 01, 2018 11:51 am

Of course. She believes Prey-Pacer is/was her father. That's what her mother or Prey-Pacer himself, has told her.

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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Tue May 01, 2018 11:53 am

Well, Prey-Pacer and Wreath must have known whether or not they did the hanky-panky.
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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Tue May 01, 2018 12:13 pm

-Prey-Pacer and Wreath fucked. 
-They decide to keep it a secrect because Softfoot is Prey-Pacer's chosen mate and she will be the one to give the Wolfriders a heir.
-Zarhan decides to leave to find Rahnee.
Recognition: Errrh, Prey-Pacer/Wreath was a bad idea, the hunt will be reborn, can't have that, go bang his father! NOW!! *Terminates previous Recognition* 
-Wreath goes to pester Zarhan as he's packing what little he owns and Recognizes him then and there.

Zarhan: Well ok.
Wreath: But...I Recognized your son!
Zarhan: Noooot very well it seems.
Zarhan and Wreath fuck, Zarhan leaves.

Wreath never tells Prey-Pacer the truth and just sticks with their original plan.

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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Tue May 01, 2018 12:18 pm

Oh, but no matter what theory you subscribe to, Wreath and Prey-Pacer did have sex! It's just that Skyfires believed parentage was, no matter how you look at it, kept a secret.

Wreath and Prey-Pacer recognizing was a nuisance, no matter the storyline you choose. In the anthologies it was because Prey-Pacer loved Softfoot, and to prove that she hadn't suggested him becoming chief was a step up for her, Wreath kept the secret.

If you believe in the Zarhan theory, then as I suggest, it may be out of pride or just not wanting the secret out as it'd compromise what Softfoot got hurt for. Or not admit that thepregnancy terminated.

Or in the Two-Spear comic it's because Skyfire was a child of recognition. By admitting that the chief had recognized Wreath it could compromise Swift-Spear coming chieftainship. The irony was that by trying to avoid that becoming an issue... it became an issue because of it. After they learned the secret, Rellah and Talen immediately campaigned for Skyfire.

In the Zarhan theory it was a double secret, where Zarhan being her father was a secret that Wreath kept.

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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Tue May 01, 2018 12:20 pm

I just discovered that this is almost as if taken out of a telenovella.

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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Tue May 01, 2018 1:02 pm

@Shadowpath wrote:
-Prey-Pacer and Wreath fucked. 
-They decide to keep it a secrect because Softfoot is Prey-Pacer's chosen mate and she will be the one to give the Wolfriders a heir.
-Zarhan decides to leave to find Rahnee.
Recognition: Errrh, Prey-Pacer/Wreath was a bad idea, the hunt will be reborn, can't have that, go bang his father! NOW!! *Terminates previous Recognition* 
-Wreath goes to pester Zarhan as he's packing what little he owns and Recognizes him then and there.

Zarhan: Well ok.
Wreath: But...I Recognized your son!
Zarhan: Noooot very well it seems.
Zarhan and Wreath fuck, Zarhan leaves.

Wreath never tells Prey-Pacer the truth and just sticks with their original plan.

But there's nothing in the comics indicating that a Recognition can overrule another one.


@Startear wrote:
Wreath and Prey-Pacer recognizing was a nuisance, no matter the storyline you choose. In the anthologies it was because Prey-Pacer loved Softfoot, and to prove that she hadn't suggested him becoming chief was a step up for her, Wreath kept the secret.

And this seems much more reasonable to me.
Wreath and Prey-Pacer recognized, Wreath knew Prey-Pacer loved Softfoot - and didn't care much for him herself anyway - but they both knew that it was impossible to deny Recognition, so they went on with it, deciding to keep the identity of the father of Wreath's child a secret.

BTW, weren't Prey-Pacer and Wreath cousins? Wreath being the daughter of Laststar, Rahnee's sister. Gives a whole new meaning to the term "kissing cousins"; "unwillingly shagging cousins"...
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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Tue May 01, 2018 1:22 pm

@Redhead Ember wrote:
@Shadowpath wrote:
-Prey-Pacer and Wreath fucked. 
-They decide to keep it a secrect because Softfoot is Prey-Pacer's chosen mate and she will be the one to give the Wolfriders a heir.
-Zarhan decides to leave to find Rahnee.
Recognition: Errrh, Prey-Pacer/Wreath was a bad idea, the hunt will be reborn, can't have that, go bang his father! NOW!! *Terminates previous Recognition* 
-Wreath goes to pester Zarhan as he's packing what little he owns and Recognizes him then and there.

Zarhan: Well ok.
Wreath: But...I Recognized your son!
Zarhan: Noooot very well it seems.
Zarhan and Wreath fuck, Zarhan leaves.

Wreath never tells Prey-Pacer the truth and just sticks with their original plan.

But there's nothing in the comics indicating that a Recognition can overrule another one.


@Startear wrote:
Wreath and Prey-Pacer recognizing was a nuisance, no matter the storyline you choose. In the anthologies it was because Prey-Pacer loved Softfoot, and to prove that she hadn't suggested him becoming chief was a step up for her, Wreath kept the secret.

And this seems much more reasonable to me.
Wreath and Prey-Pacer recognized, Wreath knew Prey-Pacer loved Softfoot - and didn't care much for him herself anyway - but they both knew that it was impossible to deny Recognition, so they went on with it, deciding to keep the identity of the father of Wreath's child a secret.

BTW, weren't Prey-Pacer and Wreath cousins? Wreath being the daughter of Laststar, Rahnee's sister. Gives a whole new meaning to the term "kissing cousins"; "unwillingly shagging cousins"...

No, there isn't. 
But nowadays the comic claims Recognition can put on standby or ignored or the spirit of High One can split some of its soul into pieces and steal a forming body, so  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
In my headcanon, and something said by Zarhan, supports this, Recognition in that was rather...whimsical.

Zarhan mentions he's Recognized a lot (I'm thinking small liberty of soul names here) and the book says 'sometimes there's children, often not. Each partner looked forward to the next lightning-like encounter.'

Recognition is a broken mechanism, trying to figure out how to work when something like mortality has suddenly come into the picture.

Wreath is the daughter of Rahnee's full sister, Laststar. I kinda assume that's why the Recognition terminated itself. They're  too close, Prey-Pacer has too much wolf and the child would have become a Hunt, which nobody wanted to return from what Zarhan says.

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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Tue May 01, 2018 1:23 pm

And again, we’re not talking comic canon, we’re talking anthologies and fringe canon, regarding a popular theory from that story.

I thought that the kissing cousins was the reason why Prey-Pacr’s recogntion with Wreath was twrminatd in the storyline.. Laststar is Rahnee’s sister, so then it’s not cousin/cousin anymore

Of course later we have more kissing cousins like Teir/Ember and Scouter/Tyleet, but at that time it was less of a direct issue.

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PostSubject: Re: What have you discovered today?   Tue May 01, 2018 1:45 pm

@Shadowpath wrote:
No, there isn't.
But nowadays the comic claims Recognition can put on standby or ignored or the spirit of High One can split some of its soul into pieces and steal a forming body, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That was a special case, only possible with the aid of two healers - one being the strongest healer alive - and a palace pod.
Besides, if there's disagreement between the novels and the comics, I'll go with the comics any day.


@Shadowpath wrote:
Zarhan mentions he's Recognized a lot (I'm thinking small liberty of soul names here) and the book says 'sometimes there's children, often not. Each partner looked forward to the next lightning-like encounter.'

So it's entirely possible that the Wreath-Zarhan Recognition - if it ever happened - was one of those without children...


@Startear wrote:
I thought that the kissing cousins was the reason why Prey-Pacr’s recogntion with Wreath was twrminatd in the storyline.. Laststar is Rahnee’s sister, so then it’s not cousin/cousin anymore

I hardly think cousin/cousin was ever an issue. Given that all the Wolfriders are descended from the same guy...
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