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kathleen3.0

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:55 am

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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:14 am

@kathleen3.0 wrote:
http://comicsbulletin.com/exclusive-preview-elfquest-the-final-quest-12/

good lord Shocked


Thanks for the link , Kathleen. You're really on the ball Wink

It's weird, people have talked about specific instances of this with water in cupped hands and bending flame , etc., and it was odd to see those exact instances.
I don't really know how I feel about it yet.
The main thing I feel weird about is that .... no one recognized Timmain at the beginning of her introduction. Recognized, as in felt familiarity of her essence...I would think SOMETHING would be sensed to tip off the others. But it's always been simply awe and a level of worship, and that's it.
So yeah. Not really sure what I think of all of this, time will tell when the issue comes out, i suppose.
what's that last panel of Cutter? Is he flying off or something lol?


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kathleen3.0

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:17 am

Tumblr's been spamming me with it all day. It's driving me up the wall.
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wingthing

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:32 am

Shocked Wow. I... just... wow.

Spoiler:
 

That's your final answer, Wendy? You sure? Okay, just checking.

I'd run like hell too, if I were Cutter!
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:51 am

(stunned silence)

....
....
....
....
....

What.

So.... um, if I have this right, the splintering was involuntary? Was this really the Pinis' plan all along, or something they made up to just tie up loose ends somehow?

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sun girl

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:15 am

[rant]
… you know what, I don't even know what to say.
[/rant]
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:27 am

The splintering was involuntary, from what I can tell. And Timmain "went out" to escape from being in the pit in her wolf-form. She was drawn to the Wolfriders, being her direct descendants, and found a body to inhabit with the Tam part.

I think they made it up later. It doesn't fit what they've revealed about the origin of the story. It may have been added later on; I recall an editorial in which Richard said Wendy had told him the fates of teh characters, and that if he were offered to know his eventual destiny, he'd say no.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:17 am

If I were Cutter, I would run away from such a bad storyline, too. Rolling Eyes Or does he fly off? It's hard to tell.
This preview gives me the same feeling as the last few issues did: it's so unconvincing.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:16 am

Final Quest is kind of a guilty pleasure, the story is stupid and does not fit with the previous stories (you can recognise an elf, share thoughts and feeling but to 'really know a soul' you need "spirit eyes" Actually Winnie could've told Rayek, or maybe Cutter's parents, they are never far away). One gets to see familiar faces again and again (in the shape of copy/pasted pictures, page 3 I'm talking to you!).

And I love the reaction it evokes here on the forum Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:41 am

@kathleen3.0 wrote:
http://comicsbulletin.com/exclusive-preview-elfquest-the-final-quest-12/

The next time I sit down with my papers and wonder 'is this too weird?', I'm going to point at the whole Timmain-Cutter thing and go 'Nope. Nope, it's fine.'
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manga

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:40 am

Um, since when has Skywise longed for a child of Recognition? She said "unspoken" but this seems to be completely unknown, even to Skywise! He has NEVER acted interested in having a child of his own, let alone in Recognition. That was half the joke in that "Heart's Way" story, with all his little lovelies asking him which one he thought he would Recognize and him ducking the question just as fast as he could. That may simply have been "politik" when juggling that many girlfriends but a "yearning for Recognition" has never before been presented as part of his character.

And can I just say "wow" for Timmain's survival abilities? She was with the trolls for some unknown amount of time and so close to the edge of death that her spirit left her body "to continue the learning" (What learning? She'd been a wolf so long she'd forgotten she was an elf. I'm sure that's been said more than once.) AND then survived on that edge of death for another 28 or so years until Cutter and Company retook the Palace. But NONE of the other High Ones managed to be that tough?
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Sifra

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:13 am

Skywise did hug Yun that one time. That must mean he has an unspoken longing for a child...

Miss Gillespie: I have more fun with the reactions on this forum than with the comics themselves... Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:35 am

@manga wrote:
Um, since when has Skywise longed for a child of Recognition?  She said "unspoken" but this seems to be completely unknown, even to Skywise!  He has NEVER acted interested in having a child of his own, let alone in Recognition.  That was half the joke in that "Heart's Way" story, with all his little lovelies asking him which one he thought he would Recognize and him ducking the question just as fast as he could.  That may simply have been "politik" when juggling that many girlfriends but a "yearning for Recognition" has never before been presented as part of his character.

I think that's supposed to be part of the soul-bonding with Cutter -- that is actually supposed to be for-reals Recognition with Timmain in a weird, sideways kind of way. Timmain even calls him one of Cutter's "Recognized soulmates" in issue 11.

Quote :

And can I just say "wow" for Timmain's survival abilities?  She was with the trolls for some unknown amount of time and so close to the edge of death that her spirit left her body "to continue the learning" (What learning?  She'd been a wolf so long she'd forgotten she was an elf.  I'm sure that's been said more than once.) AND then survived on that edge of death for another 28 or so years until Cutter and Company retook the Palace.  But NONE of the other High Ones managed to be that tough?  

Ye-ah, this is what I'm tripping over, myself. I know the Pinis said elfin spirits can exist in two places at once and outside of time. So I'm guessing the assumption we're supposed to make is that Timmain "went out" outside of time back to when a Wolfrider child was being conceived.

.. But then, why not Nightfall? She was born a year or so after Cutter -- her conception would have been 'sooner'.

And was there a spirit that was shoved aside to make way for Tam-Timmain to have a body? Or was it timed so perfectly that "two spirits didn't join to give life and breath to a third"?

This is really creepy. At least we've been told this is a one-time deal.

This is also why "timey-wimey stuff" is a PITA.
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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:41 am

@Sifra wrote:
If I were Cutter, I would run away from such a bad storyline, too. Rolling Eyes

That just made me laugh, Sifra.

I mean. I guess if all descendants of Timmain are Wolfriders then maybe Wendy figured she could 'hide' Timmain' as just another drop of blood in Cutter to get passed off. But part of me is still wondering how come Leetah didn't have a closer bond with Timmain the way Skywise was drawn to her. She never shows as remotely drawn at all to her, which is kind of weird. And as others mentioned, how is it the spirit of his parents never knew, or said anything.


Is this whole reveal supposed to effect the storyline in some way? Because I'm not sure in the end that it matters at all whether they share souls or not. But maybe now Cutter can stop bowing and scraping whenever he goes into the palace.
I'd just like to read the entire thing before having a complete opinion...these are, I suppose, incomplete thoughts right now.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:51 am

I must confess my English-reading abilities are not what they used to be, because I don't get Timmain's

Spoiler:
 

Can someone explain it to me in easy first-grade English?
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:54 am

The only "important" thing is we now know how Jink can be the supposed daughter of Recognition of Skywise and Timmain AND the daughter the the Cutter-looking future Master of the Palace...
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:00 pm

@Arthis wrote:
I must confess my English-reading abilities are not what they used to be, because I don't get Timmain's

Spoiler:
 

Can someone explain it to me in easy first-grade English?

I am pretty sure it means that it's ultimately up to Cutter whether Timmain/Skywise can create offspring from the joining she and Skywise have. Like Cutter has to give the 'okay' and be in soul agreement that a child would be created from the union.

That's how I read it, anyway.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:02 pm

@Arthis wrote:
The only "important" thing is we now know how Jink can be the supposed daughter of Recognition of Skywise and Timmain AND the daughter the the Cutter-looking future Master of the Palace...

I think you're right about that.  If anything, Jink also looks a whole lot like Timmain once she's shrunk down to regular elf size too. So it makes sense.

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wingthing

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:14 pm

@Zadzi wrote:
@Arthis wrote:
I must confess my English-reading abilities are not what they used to be, because I don't get Timmain's

Spoiler:
 

Can someone explain it to me in easy first-grade English?

I am pretty sure it means that it's ultimately up to Cutter whether Timmain/Skywise can create offspring from the joining she and Skywise have. Like Cutter has to give the 'okay' and be in soul agreement that a child would be created from the union.

That's how I read it, anyway.

That was my first read too. Then I read it again and thought "wait, no, she means it's up to Skywise." Then I read it yet again and... shoot, it's up to one of them... yeah, I hope Timmain never has to give instructions in a crisis situation, because you need a committee to figure out what she's saying!
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:41 pm

Oh no! Cutter is an horcrux!!!

(sorry Razz )
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:55 pm

@manga wrote:
Um, since when has Skywise longed for a child of Recognition?  She said "unspoken" but this seems to be completely unknown, even to Skywise!  He has NEVER acted interested in having a child of his own, let alone in Recognition.  That was half the joke in that "Heart's Way" story, with all his little lovelies asking him which one he thought he would Recognize and him ducking the question just as fast as he could.  That may simply have been "politik" when juggling that many girlfriends but a "yearning for Recognition" has never before been presented as part of his character.

Maybe not yerning for a child of Recognition but I'd say he has shown at least some vague signs of regret that he didn't get to raise Yun.
First in this panel in Full Circle were he directly says (or thinks) that he missed his chance
http://elfquest.com/read/index.php?s=IABB&p=134
Then this Panel from Final Quest Special where he points out that Sunstream shouldn't miss the chance to raise his daughter.
http://boingboing.net/2013/02/25/elfquest-i-cant-leave-them.html
Sure, it doesn't say so directly, but I always read a I know how it is to have missed that chance, you shouldn't.

As for not wanting children (of Recognition) back during Heart's Way; well, it's entirely possible that Skywise back then was totally "Nope, not children for me!"
While Skywise during the time of Full Circle and Final Quest has begun to think "Hmm... it is a shame I didn't get to raise Yun - though she turned out fine."
Of course it's also entirely possible that if Yun's mother had somehow made her way to the Forbidden Grove during the time between OQ and SaBM with Yun then Skywise's reaction would've simply been "Eeeeh... you take care of her, right?" But I think that if Yun for some reason had ended up with the Wolfriders and her mother - and the other Go-Backs - had been unable to raise her, then Skywise would've raised to the challenge. He might've needed a lot of help from his tribemates, but I doubt he'd just leave Yun to her own devices.

And maybe Skywise's sudden unspoken desire for a child is simply because several of his teammates who used to be younger than him are now centuries older than him.
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manga

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:37 pm

@Miscellaneous wrote:
Oh no! Cutter is an horcrux!!!

(sorry Razz )

Miscellaneous for the win! cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:11 pm

I would almost buy this, except... there is some serious revisionism going on. Timmain was found in a pit with at least two or three other wolves. If she was in there for decades-- she couldn't have fallen into that pit with the other wolves. They wouldn't have lived that long. So was it just a coincidence that she fell in the pit and then, sometime later, a bunch of other wolves did too? But no other animals-- like bears or deer? What-- were the trolls collecting wolves for some strange reason?

It made sense that she was running with some odd pack-- and a handful of them fell in together-- but the random wolf collecting pit is just too coincidental.

Yes-- it seems as if she possessed, or dispossessed the spirit of a baby.Timmain just walked in. I'm okay with that being creepy. A spaceship powered by the souls of the dead is already pretty eerie if you think about it. I do wish, though, that there had been some indication that she and Cutter had any similarities before now.

As far as Skywise is concerned-- I think with that there actually has been consistent build up. He's changed a lot since book 1-- and he has been shown having both longing for Timmain and regret about not raising Yun.

I just wish the Timmain/Cutter thing had been better planned out. It would make more sense if she had, say, been cocooned by a preserver in the forbidden grove or something. Or maybe not. The thing about finding her in the troll tunnels with the other wolves that made sense was that it implied she had just never strayed very far from the Palace. All those centuries, she was just living as a wolf with the pack that kept birthing and dying in the surrounding area. But to be Cutter-- yeah, she would have had to have been in a pit for over twenty years. What about the other wolves? How would they have lived in there that long? If they fell in later-- what an unlikely  coincidence.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:27 pm

Okay-- that was my first reaction. I reread it a minute ago. It's getting more plausible. If you overlook the wolves in a pit thing-- it explains why Skywise is so joined at the hip to Cutter and what drew Cutter on his quest toward the Palace. Leetah, I don't get. You'd think she would have noticed something..

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:47 pm

@Arthis wrote:
The only "important" thing is we now know how Jink can be the supposed daughter of Recognition of Skywise and Timmain AND the daughter the the Cutter-looking future Master of the Palace...

I feel very strongly that this is the main reason for this whole Timmain/Tam bodysnatching plotline. Looking back and retconning. "How can Jink still be Timmain and Skywise's kid when we saw a Cutter-alike call her his daughter…. wait, I know! Timmain IS Cutter! Richard, I've cracked the puzzle!"

I'd really like a better answer from Timmain than "I do what I choose to do" about why this is happening now. If she is the female form of the soul that Skywise Recognized, I don't see why they wouldn't get it on as soon as they met.
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