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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:45 pm

Oh right, that makes sense. Hmmmm. I don't know, trying to wrap my mind around this.

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ErinC1978

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:37 pm

@Lunakat wrote:
And it contrasts with the fluidity we are used to in her art, does not allow for the "line of beauty" she talks about, and doesn't tend to include the charming background elements Thornbrake mentioned that are characteristic of her style of comic.

Yes, this! Everything Lunakat said! It chips away at the lovely naturalism that has been so characteristic of ElfQuest, and in a bunch of ways.

@Lunakat wrote:
When David, Heather or Rob talk about the times she doesn't cut and paste, as if that's something remarkable, I sort of have to roll my eyes. Because it's not an extraordinary thing to draw out comic panels instead of cutting and pasting the elements of other panels into them. It's sort of just a basic standard. She never did it before-- and it's too obvious the way she does it for it to result in something that's of decent quality now. Most artists would not do that-- except for some obvious effect-- or if they do, I don't read their comics. We have bookcases full of comic books in which all the panels are individually  drawn. It's not a unique thing to do.

Very much so -- in fact, it's so unusual that when artists do it, it tends to stick out. (Thinking in particular of a manhwa called Rebirth here.)

Personally, I'd be fine with the style being less elaborate if we got more original drawings. :-/ Or alternatively, go longer between issues. Thinking of the art in The Discovery -- I didn't love all of it. Some panels were not brilliantly drawn. Others were nice, but sort of sketchy and undetailed. But IMO it had a lot more life in it than parts of FQ.
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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:10 pm

I have a really stupid question: Why is Timmain still alive while the other High Ones are dead? Why are the High Ones dead at all? I thought they were immortal. I know the 'pure blooded elves' lived a long time but when did pure blood become immortal? Like the Sun Folk for instance, aren't they immortal? How is it some of the pure blooded elves in the past died while all the Sunfolk pretty much like Savah stayed alive? I know some died through accidents or whatever, but is there an actual natural death for pureblooded elves? I'm really confused about this, someone please explain if they have answers.

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Shadowpath

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:25 pm

Timmain's alive because she's super duper special and her being alive always kinda (to me at least) sorta meant that what she did the only 'right' thing to do and since the wolfriders are the most popular and 'awesome' that connotation carries over to Timmain.

As for why immortal elves have died, accident,murder and mental exhaustion.
Eldolil from Freefoot's era was exhausted and let himself die because he was tied of living on Abode. Due to life being very hard. (Which wasn't made any easier by the wolfriders, if I remember right)

I've always assumed Timmain's wolf form limited her mind to the point that any trauma would be nullified.
Again, it's just how I see things.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:38 pm

@Lunakat wrote:
Well, remember when Cutter asked Leetah and Skywise how  long they would give up everything good for them for the sake of him? He's not just Leetah's hubby and Skywise's boyfriend-- he's everybody's chief.

She did go off and have 'the talk' with Cutter straight after Skywise made the comment about not being able to bear leaving anyone behind. She just walked off, leaving Skywise thinking 'WTF' (I'm paraphrasing, obviously) and then went and made the Big Reveal.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:44 pm

@Zadzi wrote:
I also think it's about high time that Cutter's parents make an appearance.

i think it's high time we had some other wolfrider's make an appearance! don't get me wrong, i love Bearclaw and Joyleaf....but come on, let's see...i dunno, Timmorn! or One Eye, or Crescent. heck, Rain would be pretty cool!

i mean we had Skyfire and "Crescent" make an appearance of sorts in the shards war, but these were really more hallucinations. let's see some real spirits!
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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:51 pm

@ Shadowpath - Yeah I remember Eldolil and his fabulous fashion show sending. He looked pretty old and decrepit and nothing like an immortal, say, Sun Villager. I wonder if the high ones back then just suffered more due to not being able to adapt the way Timmain did, and they did get really tired since their way of living was quite harsh.

And I do think you're right, the shapeshifting kept Timmain limited in her mind - all that 'the now' stuff, that was important for survival in many ways, including getting past her trauma.

I still wonder though if there are other high ones around. There really should be. It can't just be Timmain who is 'special' only, can it? I suppose it can but it feels a little flat.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:57 pm

@Zadzi wrote:
@ Shadowpath - Yeah I remember Eldolil and his fabulous fashion show sending. He looked pretty old and decrepit and nothing like an immortal, say, Sun Villager. I wonder if the high ones back then just suffered more due to not being able to adapt the way Timmain did, and they did get really tired since their way of living was quite harsh.
That's what I've always gotten from what I've read.

@Zadzi wrote:

I still wonder though if there are other high ones around. There really should be. It can't just be Timmain who is 'special' only, can it? I suppose it can but it feels a little flat.
I'd LOVE to see other High Ones. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:10 pm

It always made sense to me that Timmain survived when others died out, because she lived for centuries as a wolf, running with a wolf pack. She took on a form that was designed for survival. The other elves couldn't shape shift-- and the form they crash-landed in (elf shaped) was delicate and prone to getting damaged (often lethally) in various ways. That's why she gave them Timmorn- right? Because he could introduce some element of toughness and help them evolve.

After that, she didn't even try to be an elf anymore. She just disappeared and lived fully as a wolf- almost completely forgetting her former life and living solely on instinct. That's why she outlived everyone.

Heck-- look how fragile she is now by comparison. I bet she's going to die in this storyline.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:49 pm

She can't die until she has Jink. :-P

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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:49 pm

Makes a lot of sense, Lunakat. I never thought about the other elves as fragile but in realizing she shapeshifted for the sake of survival, that makes sense and I also never thought about how she left them with Timmorn...that actually makes a lot of sense from a survival standpoint.
But what about the others like the Gliders and Sunfolk and Wavedancers? I know the Go Backs were pretty much split-off Wolfriders, and it seems the Sunfolk also split from the original band. But how did they get around all of this? And the Wavedancers, what about them? They weren't all surviving because of Timmorn, right?

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:52 pm

It's kinda weird how Timmain says she was charged with remembering everything, because once she got in her wolf form, she remembered *nothing*. After she took off to live like a wolf, there's this big gap in the story as to how the other groups (with exceptions of the Go Backs) came about and what happened.
It would be nice to get some blanks filled about how they evolved.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:59 pm

@Lunakat wrote:
Well, remember when Cutter asked Leetah and Skywise how  long they would give up everything good for them for the sake of him? He's not just Leetah's hubby and Skywise's boyfriend-- he's everybody's chief.

Wow, I think this is the best explanation yet for Timmain's behavior. It makes sense with her comments about it being the right time to reveal and only one thread leading to their swift and sure departure, and fits in with Cutter's freak-out in the palace when he told Skywise he would only fly in spirit form (although he did go in the pod to rescue Ember, didn't he?)

So why is now the right time? Something to do with the Djun's fleet that will change his mind? Something that happens to his loved ones who are now going out to try to find him?

Maybe that's also why they couldn't go out gathering other elves -Timmain was buying time until the opportune moment. And why she had that weird response to Skywise's comment about not leaving anyone behind - she was like, yeah, I gotta go take care of that now. And also why she hooked up with Skywise then, before the connection was lost.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:16 am

@Zadzi wrote:
It's kinda weird how Timmain says she was charged with remembering everything, because once she got in her wolf form, she remembered *nothing*.

Hence our shared theory about her doing it as escapism. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:41 am

I know! Total disassociation. Who, me? I don't know what you mean! Whimper whine whimper.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:08 am

@Outlier wrote:
@Lunakat wrote:
Well, remember when Cutter asked Leetah and Skywise how  long they would give up everything good for them for the sake of him? He's not just Leetah's hubby and Skywise's boyfriend-- he's everybody's chief.

Wow, I think this is the best explanation yet for Timmain's behavior....

Maybe that's also why they couldn't go out gathering other elves -Timmain was buying time until the opportune moment. And why she had that weird response to Skywise's comment about not leaving anyone behind - she was like, yeah, I gotta go take care of that now. And also why she hooked up with Skywise then, before the connection was lost.

That also makes sense! It didn't occur to me that she might be stalling him to make the timing right.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:11 am

Maybe that was also her last chance to hook up with Skywise, like you said, before the connection was broken by this revelation. She knew, because of what he finally confessed to Cutter, that he was ready for it. But maybe this is also why any future joinings, and the decision to make a cub, will have to be by his choice-- instead of subject to the pull of recognition. I guess she didn't get pregnant, but still could? Or she did, but he still has to make a choice whether he wants to raise it? That was confusing.

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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:12 am

I think it's pretty clear that Timmain just immersed herself too deeply in being a wolf and ended up living in the moment, like an animal.

It is kind of funny to picture her just quitting her job though.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:00 am

She's a high-powered CEO who had a freak-out in a board meeting and then gave it all up to live off the land in Alaska. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:27 am

She's a high powered CEO who had to go to Alaska in a desperate move to save the company, after an attempt at a hostile takeover lost them half their employees, tanked their assets, and crashed their stock. She formed a willing alliance with a little known start up, chose her replacement, groomed him, introduced him to the board ... Then she left the room to , like, go to the bathroom or something-- and never came back.

Was she dead? Did she ' fall in'? Or did she just, abruptly, retire to Alaska? No one knew.

But the guy who stepped in for her took the company in some unexpected directions.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:02 am

@Outlier wrote:
It makes sense with her comments about it being the right time to reveal and only one thread leading to their swift and sure departure, and fits in with Cutter's freak-out in the palace when he told Skywise he would only fly in spirit form (although he did go in the pod to rescue Ember, didn't he?)

I think Cutter's comment back then was mostly about interstellar flight (especially in a see-through Palace), don't think he has that much against flying around on WoTM, not only did he fly in the pod to go rescue Ember, he also flew in the Palace when they went to the Wavedancers so Sunstream and Brill could answer the call of Recognition.


BTW, am I the only one thinking that if only Sunstream had come up with the Palace pods ideas a bit earlier a lot of the trouble in Discovery could have been avoided?
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:38 am

Noo! Because then we wouldn't have had a story! It's a crying shame he invented them since, because the possibility of just sending a safe and quick pod makes all the problems in the current books solvable- and makes Timmain look evil for not letting the elves use them all the time! Worst plot device ever!
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:54 pm

I think it was suggested that it took him and Skywise a long time to learn how to form and navigate them, right? That was the explanation, I guess...

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:18 pm

Yeah, but they figured it out before the call went out. So conceivably, they could have shaped pods to find the other elves and get them. In fact, they could have sent people as missionaries to all the different tribes.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:39 pm

That's what Skywise was asking Timmain to let him do. That's what she said no to.

She never elaborates on why she doesn't want him to do this. Savah jumps in and says it's about choice-- but someone, Outlier I think, suggested that maybe it had to with the timing of her revelation to Cutter being right. That maybe she was stalling to get everything to fall in order in the right way so that they eventually all leave together with as little fuss as possible.

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