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Miss Gillespie

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:10 am

"Don't listen to her, it seems like Timmain is getting senile lately, Sunstream, do your magic!" Sunstream seaches for his father, finds him: "Oh he's there, I found him!" Cutter drops dead off-screen The end.

I wonder if Timmain checked for that kind of thread in the scroll, too

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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:09 am

What if the whole story is going meta? Timmain told Cutter he is an aspect of her- because they are all just aspects of Wendy Pini... And we're the Scroll of Colors that she keeps reading, with all its varied threads?

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:48 am

@Miss Gillespie wrote:
"Don't listen to her, it seems like Timmain is getting senile lately, Sunstream, do your magic!" Sunstream seaches for his father, finds him: "Oh he's there, I found him!" Cutter drops dead off-screen The end.

I wonder if Timmain checked for that kind of thread in the scroll, too

rofl
It annoys me that we don't know what the other options were that his possible destruction of mind/emotions and now possibly body as well was the best choice.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:49 am

@Lunakat wrote:
What if the whole story is going meta? Timmain told Cutter he is an aspect of her- because they are all just aspects of Wendy Pini... And we're the Scroll of Colors that she keeps reading, with all its varied threads?

Ugh, breaking the 4th wall stuff really bothers me, I hope it's not that

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kathleen3.0

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:40 pm

@Zadzi wrote:
@Lunakat wrote:
What if the whole story is going meta? Timmain told Cutter he is an aspect of her- because they are all just aspects of Wendy Pini... And we're the Scroll of Colors that she keeps reading, with all its varied threads?

Ugh, breaking the 4th wall stuff really bothers me, I hope it's not that

I mean, like, I know you guys think I'm already crabby, but you don't want to see what I'll do if that happens.
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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:04 pm

Timmain is just reading our comments in her iPod.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:20 pm

@kathleen3.0 wrote:

I mean, like, I know you guys think I'm already crabby, but you don't want to see what I'll do if that happens.

Some morbid part of me does.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:37 am

Okay, time to add my two cents worth. The only thing I got out of this issue (a quick read at best). That Timmain has been doing things she shouldn't be doing to begin with and that she and Cutter not only share a soul, they also share a soul name. Now Cutter is in the process of having a nervous break down and simply states it's mine. I believe what he is referring to is his soul name. Plus you toss in the choices made during his life. If she had never interfered with things when he was conceived, would he have made the same choices. Would events have been different. Did Timmain alter the path of one elf to suit her own personal needs and goals.

I would like to see how this plays out, but I worry this new development will alter Cutter's character too much.

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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:23 pm

Turn on closed captioning (cc) for subtitles:


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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:27 pm


"I'm a six foot tall bitch?"

"Yeah. A little. On the inside."

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:50 pm

If Cutter and Timmain share a soul name, why doesnt Leetah notice any form of a vague pull or sense tbat something's up with Timmain at any other part in the story? Skywise has always had a pull to Timmain, and this appears to now be explained away as caused by his recognition to Cutter (therefore Timmain), so if Leetah recognized Cutter, then why doesnt she feel a similar pull on some level? (Yeah, I know her recognition was consummated with Cutter, but if a birth would "finish off" the whole thing, she still knows his soul name, therefore Timmain's, and it seems as though that would connect them somehow.

I still think Leetah's sneakin around with something.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:10 am

For me it doesn't bother me tremendously that Leetah hasn't noticed, and it's one reason I call shenanigans on Timmain claiming that she and Cutter are one being, regardless of how he originated. Cutter is a chunk of her soul, but the reverse is not true.

Honestly, I feel like the specific way in which Timmain delivered her "revelation" was really quite selfish. It's the truth as she sees it, but she's neglecting the other truth of Cutter as a separate being. Which he was, for a long, long time. For FQ to ultimately work for me, that truth is going to have to be acknowledged.
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Miss Gillespie

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:20 am

@Lunakat wrote:
Turn on closed captioning (cc) for subtitles:


Wendy is into french movies, who's thought? Smile

I bet it turns out, that Leetah had a vague idea, but didn't tell him, like when she first didn't tell him he was mortal.

So what would have happened, if Rayek did merge the two palaces with all the elves inside? Would there be three sets of Timmain?

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:50 am

Well, and as far as Cutter being his own being,in a way one could consider him as having as much time and experience on WoTM as Timmain: she was there at the crash, lost herself among the Trolls for a period of time (to the point she fractured and lost herself, part of herself completely, as it turns out), and was whisked away 10ky into the future (well, present at this point). Cutter was born at the 10ky after crash (roughly), and existed (living or wrapstuffed) until he caught up to Timmain in time. Since then they have both been coexisting, and one interpretation is that she has been drawing off of him to rebuild herself... shoot, at this point he was more completely an entity than she was, and she could have been considered a sliver of him!

As to the Three Timmains... that tweaks my interest.
analytical: as intended by Rayak, perhaps not likely. He intended to wipe away the "error or the past" including the Wolfriders, and therefore Cutter wouldnt exist, so there'd only be two Timmains (though in actuality there would only be one and a half: he had brought along "wolf splinter timmain", and "Cutter splinter timmain" would be erased outside of the Palace as a wolfrider)

Humorous: Three Timmains walk into a bar after Rayak "saves" the Palace from crashing. The first Timmain orders several shots of tequila, then wanders off looking for someone... or some thing... to shack up with. The second Timmain (Cutter) orders a deep mug of Old Maggoty's Dreamberry Brew only to find out that since Rayak defeated the crash, both Old Maggoty and Goodtree were never born, so there's no dreamberries, nor a brew made from them. He ends up drowning his disappointment in a larger, pint mug of beer. The third Timmain orders her favorite spirit, but the bartender informs her that "cannibalism isnt served here."


One more note: we really need to stop ragging on the Elves/Wolfriders for inbreeding... Timmain's family tree seems to be sprouted from seed that fell from its own fruit.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:30 pm

I'm really enjoying all your reflections! It disappoints me that the storyline has strayed so far from the source material. When I started reading Final Quest online, it was off to a great start - the birth of Korafay was fun! But now seeming-photocopies of the characters are standing around saying "What? What?" like an episode of Seinfeld. What's happened to the wolfriders and "fantasy with teeth"? I'm starting to think that living with the palace was the worst idea ever for them, and it's caused their instincts have become dull. Usually sharp Skywise, no longer the "brave guardsman" is all muddle-headed with high-one sex. (Hey, didn't Winnowill similarly seduce Rayek back in Siege of Blue Mountain?) And what's up with Leetah, the "lovely flower with sword blades for petals," who stood up to everyone - Rayek, recognition, Winnowill, Kahvi, even death? She should've ripped Timmain a new one when she traumatized Cutter! Brew some wolfrider coffee, stoke the fire, and get back to being divine savages, living in the "now!"
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:58 pm

@Twillor wrote:
And what's up with Leetah, the "lovely flower with sword blades for petals," who stood up to everyone - Rayek, recognition, Winnowill, Kahvi, even death? She should've ripped Timmain a new one when she traumatized Cutter! Brew some wolfrider coffee, stoke the fire, and get back to being divine savages, living in the "now!"

this, all of this. wolfrider coffee, coming to a holt near you! XD
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:16 pm

@Vaeri wrote:
@Twillor wrote:
And what's up with Leetah, the "lovely flower with sword blades for petals," who stood up to everyone - Rayek, recognition, Winnowill, Kahvi, even death? She should've ripped Timmain a new one when she traumatized Cutter! Brew some wolfrider coffee, stoke the fire, and get back to being divine savages, living in the "now!"

this, all of this. wolfrider coffee, coming to a holt near you! XD

I don't get that either. She goes 'it's between him and me' but really? No. When you fuck someone up so badly that they lose their mind over it and run off to parts unknown you lay down your cards and tell their nearest what you did.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:45 am

@TrollHammer wrote:
Well, and as far as Cutter being his own being,in a way one could consider him as having as much tiSince then they have both been coexisting, and one interpretation is that she has been drawing off of him to rebuild herself... shoot, at this point he was more completely an entity than she was, and she could have been considered a sliver of him!

This is a really good point. Heck, it's completely textual in at least one way that she's been using him to rebuild herself -- she's been hanging out in the palace doing whatever while simultaneously experiencing all the living that he's out there doing.

This is starting to remind me vaguely of that one scene in Watchmen. XD
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:29 am

OMG, Timmain is TOTALLY Dr. Manhattan!
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:41 pm

@Lunakat wrote:
Wendy has masterful skills as a traditional artist. But ever since she started using PhotoShop, her art has declined. I was impressed that she was willing to try new mediums and to take risks that way. I have to give her acknowledgement for being willing to grow and change and adopt new skill sets. But, after all this time, it just doesn't seem to be her best tool... It saves time to do that, but at kind of a cheap ploy... and it contrasts with the fluidity we are used to in her art, does not allow for the "line of beauty" she talks about, and doesn't tend to include the charming background

It makes me crazy... if this is one of her last major works, the one she's been waiting all these years to tell -- why do it halfheartedly?? Here's a side-by-side comparison, one of my favorite scenes from WaRP ElfQuest issue 4, and a scene from Final Quest issue 12. (And yet the scene from issue 4 was colored using Photoshop, but I didn't mind it so much - and I no longer have my Starblaze edition to refer to.)

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:25 pm

The starblaze edition was so much better. Photoshop is just not her thing. The color is out of control most of the time-- the way she uses Photshop specific tools (like the clone stamp or pattern brushes or just softening things, or whatnot) ends up being really obvious and makes the art awkward-- and she just doesn't draw as well on a cintiq. I personally think you do get a lot more sensitivity drawing with a pencil or pen. You'd think it would be the same, but it isn't. Wendy is just light years better with a pen and pencil. There's a fluidity to her lines that is missing when she draws on the cintiq-- the character poses are more natural and the perspective more interesting. It's too late to do it now, because you would end up with a different style-- but I wish she had drawn the final quest on paper-- at least the under-drawings. Hmm-- maybe if she did start doing the underdrawings on paper and scanning them in, then just inking over in photoshop-- maybe she wouldn't end up with two styles. I wish that could happen.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:54 pm

@Lunakat wrote:
The starblaze edition was so much better.  ...but I wish she had drawn the final quest on paper-- at least the under-drawings. Hmm-- maybe if she did start doing the underdrawings on paper and scanning them in, then just inking over in photoshop...

I totally agree, Lunakat - I miss my Starblaze editions, was forced to sell them some time ago. Actually I didn't mind her digital coloring in the DC Archives editions (from which I pulled the "hunt" picture), but I didn't like how they were edited, adding the Marvel pages she created later, which broke up the story line with mismatched styles. There is some nice coloring, but the heart of it is her strong brush-tip line work - and that's what's missing in the Final Quest. That's one of the things that made me love ElfQuest when I first saw a WaRP Graphics black and white issue - big pages of sweeping lines and rich textures!

Personally, I draw, paint, and use Photoshop too. But I start with "manual transmission" so to speak, and use Photoshop to clean up lines (but not always), make color adjustments, minor stuff. I regard it as a tool, not a medium - but I also know artists who've found their perfect creative voice in digital rendering.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:03 pm

@wingthing wrote:
OMG, Timmain is TOTALLY Dr. Manhattan!

LOL!
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:05 pm

It's really interesting to see a direct side by side comparison--I definitely feel the shift in how pages and panels are arranged, but it's very striking to actually look at them that way. What occurs to me is that the line quality has gone down a bit, but on individual figures I don't notice it so much. What's much more apparent is change in the overall sense of weight and mass in the panels--the resizing and pasting leaves inconsistent and generally very frail line thickness, and that really makes the whole thing feel off.

Personally, I'm another one who does traditional lines with digital color, and that technique does have its own challenges that would be solved by working 100% digital--but the extra work is always worth it, from my perspective. Even if you tweak things (I almost always move at least one eye!), the feel of physical media comes through in the way the line moves, and very few people can replicate that digitally. It can be done, but it's not being done here.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #12   Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:39 pm

OMG. Twillor? Another Tower Mountain elf says hi!
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