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 The Scroll of Colors and retconning

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Embala

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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:00 pm

yup

In case it's actually necessary to declare the far past pf the BoTC series non-canon I start to fear for the nearer future.

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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:01 pm

Yeah- why retcon that?

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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:42 pm

Seems weird but frankly doesn't surprise me.
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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:43 pm

Maybe it's to do with DRE Ahn.
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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:20 pm

Is that really necessary tho? There are so many vague stretches of times-- I do t see why they would need to retcon those stories.

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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:25 pm

Actually, the words were more the the extend of "unless it's referred, or alluded, to, then the events of BoTC and NB didn't happen."
Of course they've been doing quite a lot of work of confirming the 'vague' - in terms of canon - stories of NB. Yup! Ahnshen is definitely real, and he's still got his cloth-making mojo on!
However, one thing which seem to have been retconned is the bit about where Chot is. Then again, the Fire-Eye storyline was stopped because it was about to contradict the planned events of Fina Quest, and of course it was already contradicting Shards, which clearly showed Dodia arriving in the Palace.
As for the BoTC... well... here I agree that it gets a bit weird. Why not, instead of going if it's not confirmed in the FQ, then it didn't happen go if there's contradiction between the other storyline, and Final Quest, then FQ gets the final say.? Otherwise it would end up being as if all the years from Timmorn to Cutter never happened.
One thing I noticed - however - was that she didn't mention the Kahvi or Two-Spear miniseries. She didn't mention HY 6-7. So... those happened?

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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:16 pm

Too bad this is getting so confusing.
So Dart and his band were picked up from a jungle in Shards, but the NB events never happened, so basically we don't know what they did back there? (I'm getting ideas for a new fancomic. Razz )
I'm getting tired of this. I just hope FQ will end soon. silent

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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:24 pm

Some of the NB events happened. The Forevergreen definitely did; Leetah spoke to Windkin about the trials he faced with Suntop/Sunstream there.
And Ahnshen is real, so I think we can assume to stuff with Moonshade happened; he probably made her new dress.
Dart's relationship with Shushen happened - in fact Wendy recently confirmed that they were actually lifemates.
Dart recognized Serrin and had Bowki.
And of course the story in which Ahdri discovered her rockshaping powers happened too, because she's frequently been shown to be a rockshaper.

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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:36 pm

Yes, I remember. Thank you for reminding me Redhead Ember! The part with Shushen was nice. I still don't understand why the part with Bowki had to happen. If it was not so badly drawn the few scenes with him in it would have been very sweet.
Maybe I should make a list of things that did and did not happen...

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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Fri Aug 05, 2016 5:43 am

I think there might be cases within a story where some of it is canon, but some isn't.
For example: I think it's safe to say that the entire NB arch from the Go-Back War, to the Forevergreen Arch is canon, since it's frequently been referred to in Final Quest. However, I don't think Kimo actually knows Dart's soulname. Why would he? Wendy has frequently jossed the theory that they are anything more that close friends who occasionally has sex, and of course close friends who occasionally has sex is a rather common relationship for the elves.

But I think I've found some stories that definitely aren't canon.

Such as... this one!


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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:08 pm

Yes, I recently read their bios on the Elfquest page and it states that Dart and Kimo are "close friends" while Cutter and Skywise are "soulbrothers". So I assume that means the soulname thing between Dart and Kimo never happened.

That story is veyr funny! Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:34 pm

And now I wonder how much of the Fire-Eye storyline is considered canon.
Seems like Door has only captured Chot, so where's Jethel? Was he killed? Did he manage to escape with those human children, and that pirate guy? If I recall correctly Fire-Eye took place around 30 years after Forevergreen and Shards, so we'd now be some years beyond that. We know that the bit with crazy Dodia in the gave isn't canon, because Richard has said that she's in the Palace with her kid (who's in fact in his fifties/sixties, same age as Pool and Sust) and also because of Shards.

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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:41 pm

I'd not be surprised if Jethel never existed at all according to FQ... Maybe we'll see in the next issue.

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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:47 pm

Suntop referred to him at the end of Shards.

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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:49 pm

Oh. I have not read Shards. I tried, but I did not like it.

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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:24 pm

Sifra wrote:
Oh. I have not read Shards. I tried, but I did not like it.

I was resistant to reading Shards for a long time, couldn't get into it at all. Eventually I caved in and read it, it isn't that bad. I like how it ran parallel and coincided with Hidden Years and Ember's first trials as chief. The story on its own in Shards is a bit over the top because of the Winnowill stuff and the humans. The intro of Shuna (well, to where we know her actual name and she's not just some random person Leetah healed) is alright. I've never really cared for her until Searcher and Sword, which I thought was a much more interesting story.
Shards felt like just another rerun of evil Winnowill and then we had the Hidden Years stuff with the shape changed and how she was involved with that as well. The series is sort of where Winowill became even more cartoonishly evil which is probably why I wasn't crazy about it.

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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:42 pm

I read parts of Hidden Years. It was a bit more interesting than Shards. It's too bad most of those guest artists were so bad. The idea of all those series running paralel was interesting.

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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:15 pm

Yeah the elves looked really weird imo, nothing like 'themselves'. I think that's what put me off of reading that in the first place.

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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Fri Aug 05, 2016 5:21 pm

Sifra wrote:
I read parts of Hidden Years. It was a bit more interesting than Shards. It's too bad most of those guest artists were so bad. The idea of all those series running paralel was interesting.

I don't understand why it was so hard to find decent artists. Her style is not that difficult to emulate-- mostly because he character constructions are so sound. Why couldn't other people manage it?

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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:19 pm

I think they got lazy. And some of them (Barry Blair) only knew how to draw one type.Submissive little boys and women who looked identical. Only difference was the women had beach ball tits.
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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:35 pm

Yes, I was surprised Yun could see in front of her face with how huge he made her boobs. God only knows that the hell they were thinking with that. It's like letting someone use their own poop as ink to do a rendition of your work.
Is that really harsh to say?

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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:46 pm

Not where Barry Blair was concerned. The one artist who I considered to be almost as good as Wendy was Jozef Szekeres and he was a little too sensual in his art at that.


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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:14 am

I just looked him up. I guess he did the original Wavedancers, is that right? I love sensual comic art in general - Milo Manara is one of my faves, and his work was perfect for doing the Desire part of the Sandman comics. Granted, it's even erotic.
I'm not really seeing Jozef Szekeres as sensual imo, though I love his work...you are right also, very close to Wendy's. Worthy, I should say. But it's like almost so perfect and precise, there's something a bit not a hair out of place about it. But it's gorgeous work, I love the old Wavedancers stuff (Shout out to Embala for sharing that with me!!!! I love you ), it sort of just brought them more to life.
Blair wasn't sensual, or even erotic, he was just obscene. It's like what a 16 year old imagines or something, I don't know. I had a really hard time telling the elves apart. They all looked the same in the face, only a set of tits or a poof of hair and some Vegas showgirl clothing were what told the difference. Ugh. lol

Does anyone know what happened with that fallout? It's like once they had it, the Wavedancers became kind of dull and lackluster, their storyline really kind of meh.

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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:22 am

Maybe the Pinis just got disenchanted with the elves for a while. God only knows I've done that with a project / book I had worked on for so long, I stopped caring. When the small publisher got a hold of it and I realized it was out in the world, as tiny of a blip as i made, I was horrified. Things were changed and the cover was a mess. I was almost ashamed. It all happened because of my own carelessness because I just got so sick of the project after a while.
So, maybe that's what they went through, I don't know. Being beholden to a world with such a tight fan base is a huge responsibility, it must get annoying when you're just too damn tired to care after a while.

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PostSubject: Re: The Scroll of Colors and retconning   Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:54 pm

Jozef Szekeres's art is not my thing, but I agree it's a lot better looking than what the other artists cooked up.
Barry Blair did some things okay, but the postures he put the elves in were very weird sometimes, and it was a shame he was so bad at drawing different characters.

I understand being tired of working on a certain world and with certain characters. That must be very frustrating. But still, it would have been possible to find guest artists whose art didn't look like they were monkeys drawing with their feet? Embarassed

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