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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:46 pm

Thanks!

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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:20 pm

I thought so, too. Was wondering if that was actually RP responding.

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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:17 pm

Why would anyone else respond as Richard Pini?

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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:10 pm

The entire forum experience (I came in right at the tail end of the time there, right before it got shut down) on the EQ site appalled me, but it was also very familiar because I've been on forums where similar things have happened before. A site is run happily for years as a labor love, and a tight fan base is established, when suddenly the person running the site, whether artist or webmaster, starts responding to threads to leave his/her two cents, starts leaving personal opinions.
The whole thing is cool at first because fans feel like they are getting a more intimate experience. But then the whole thing goes downhill very fast. I've seen it happen to where the person wants to start making more money off his/her creation and wants to market better, and decides to become directly involved....and I've seen the confrontations fly, and the fan base scatters to the wind, leaving a bad taste in everyone's mouth. A lot of bitterness ensues. The person running the site/responsible for it has a 'vision' and anyone not in agreement is basically booted/ejected (lol, are the Pinis pulling a Rayek?).
New blood is recruited. A new fan base. The people involved seem to know nothing, they often come off as naive and somewhat worshipful. Any kind of criticism is seen as unsupportive and therefor not welcome, so everyone sort of walks eggshells .

It's nasty, nasty stuff. I really don't think the Pinis should get involved directly with EQ fan stuff very often. I'd like to say I don't think they should if they're going to get emotional, but that's almost always going to happen, period. Let someone else do your dirty work, do the marketing, draw your boundaries, and let your creation actually grow up and have a life of its own, independent of you. This is why I see the success in the resurgence of EQ as temporary right now, and it kind of saddens me. Alienating a fan base by using an argument as stubbornly sticking to a vision is crazy to me if you've already gotten involved with the fan base. You've brought them into the fold and then turned them out. That's what's leaving a bad taste, I feel.
What's sad to me is that EQ is not mainstream and will never be mainstream, and you don't need to be mainstream to be successful. But it's like they're neither here nor there with their marketing, which is why the level of success is also going to sort of be the same. This is how you get lost in the cracks of time. They need significant distance, they're like overprotective mother hens of their work and I feel trying to make it more mainstream somehow, and it's not going to work.

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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:30 pm

@Multi-Facets wrote:
There could have been a cartoon series had TV executives not been so insistent in believing Suntop had to be a tough boy and Ember a girly-girl, and that Leetah's hands-on healing would offend religious types. Wendy and Richard weren't pleased with those mindsets.

Back in the day of only three major networks (This is before cable tv for the youngsters). Studio execs controlled all aspects of a tv show's content. Much of it had plots that were quite frankly stupid and didn't nessecarily show the characters in a good light. Then an amazing thing happened, a fourth network (Fox) came along and suddenly we had somewhat edgy and decent shows that were well written to view. That has grown and the industry has changed with the advent of cable. Now you have a greater chance of having 500 channels and nothing to watch, but you still can find well written shows to watch.

Now Multi-Facets mention of tv execs wanting to change things is absolutely correct. They would have changed things to suit them. Strong female characters were rare, even Wonder Woman was nothing like her comic character. Families have evolved and now many things which wouldn't have been seen on tv back in the day are very common today.

It is just sad that the Pini's are not able or won't take advantage of the changes that have been made since Elfquest first appeared in comic form. Maybe is fear of allowing someone to help them create an animated short or lack of knowledge of new software. This would be a perfect time for them to bring EQ in the 21st century while maintaining their originals roots in hand drawn art and comics.

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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:44 pm

Zadzii wrote:
What's sad to me is that EQ is not mainstream and will never be mainstream, and you don't need to be mainstream to be successful. But it's like they're neither here nor there with their marketing, which is why the level of success is also going to sort of be the same. This is how you get lost in the cracks of time. They need significant distance, they're like overprotective mother hens of their work and I feel trying to make it more mainstream somehow, and it's not going to work.

I agree. They are a niche market. The time when they could have gone mainstream is past... mostly because the aesthetic of the comic is out of step with current trends. It's a throwback to the 70s. And it's a cool throwback-- it's something I personally love. But nobody young today remembers the 70s or was even born in the 1970s. I have always thought the 70s resurgence that occurred in the 90s was a subconscious nostalgia that newly adult people were feeling for their youth. The next nostalgic trend is going to be an 80s resurgence.

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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:57 pm

I so remember that 70s resurgence in the 90s, you're right about it. It was appealing to me for the same reasons even though I always associated the 70s with some ugly ass stuff and I was so happy to be away from it. I do see the 80s resurgence as well going on already. In a lot of stores I'm seeing the offensive evidence of annoying color combos, headbands, leg warmers, and the like. I see it more in hipsters.
Ugh, I just imagined Dewshine in a horrific 80s outfit with LA Gear sneakers and multiple scrunch socks .... Mad

What the hell is 90s nostalgia going to look like? The 70s again?


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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:12 am

Right- it's hipsters-- because today's hipsters were born in the 80s- it's their childhood. The 90s hipsters started the 70s revival. I remember my friends shopping through thrift stores for old clothes that we wore as kids-- and we were all excited to see them again. Same thing today.

Btw-- do you guys remember the first "Final Quest" poster-- with all the characters sporting their current designs? Wasn't it incredibly 80s? Did she draw that in the 80s?

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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:37 am

Is it the one with all of them gathered in the palace staring out at something? And Nightfall looks like an 80s aerobics instructor and nothing like herself? And Windkin has that ice figure dancer black outfit on?
This one http://s213.photobucket.com/user/Herrific/media/ElfQuest%20-%20the%20Final%20Quest/FQ5.jpg.html ?

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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:55 am

At least Windkin didn't have jelly wings then.
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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:16 pm

Jelly wings. That's perfect. I found they looked rather silly.

Right after this last issue was released, I remember someone on the Facebook group sort of criticized the way those wings looked now and didn't think they looked very effective, and a few people jumped and tried to 'correct' her, and then shot her down to the extent of making her seem as though she was very negative. Then it was all about how awesome the wings looked. Everyone went back to their appointed worshipful stance.
It was sort of painful to watch

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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:47 pm

That's why you don't say that stuff on Facebook.

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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:38 pm

@Zadzi wrote:
I so remember that 70s resurgence in the 90s, you're right about it. It was appealing to me for the same reasons even though I always associated the 70s with some ugly ass stuff and I was so happy to be away from it. I do see the 80s resurgence as well going on already. In a lot of stores I'm seeing the offensive evidence of annoying color combos, headbands, leg warmers, and the like. I see it more in hipsters.
Ugh, I just imagined Dewshine in a horrific 80s outfit with LA Gear sneakers and multiple scrunch socks .... Mad

What the hell is 90s nostalgia going to look like? The 70s again?


Like this, I guess: http://www.readunwritten.com/2015/07/28/4-reasons-why-90s-making-comeback/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alisa-gouldsimon/90s-fashion-is-back-with-_b_3647911.html

http://www.illamasqua.com/blog/the-90s-revival/

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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:18 pm

It's oddly nondescript.
...Oh god, Full House Shocked


As to the Facebook stuff, yeah... I don't even put up much personal stuff on my own page. Except for occasional rants which are meant to be funny.
It was still a bit cringeworthy to watch though. I keep track of the fan page because it has spoilers once in a while. It's a huge lovefest most of the time, which is fine. I figured maybe the Pinis would be less involved with it since they already have their hands full with all the work plus the main EQ pages. But they're very determined to be on board with everything. It's kind of micromanage-y - and exhausting, I imagine.

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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:22 am

It happens so often, sadly, criticisms being shot down for not being OMG THE PINIS ARE THE BEST THING SINCE BETTY WHITE. And SUPER micromanagey...it's a bit of a trainwreck. But I don't think Facebook has ever been conducive to serious discussion, unfortunately, and this group even less so with the Pinis flipping out on people.
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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:41 am

I honestly don't see the problem with Windkin's wings. They're actually pretty similar to those he used in issue 7.

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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:10 am

What? Those butterfly things now ?

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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:22 am

I wouldn't have a problem with a stiff, muscular membrane, a la pterosaurs, but then again, with his floating skills, would he need that?
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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:29 am

yes what would Windkin do with those jelly wings? Maybe he spreads honey on them and uses them to catch flies? Because maybe he likes to eat flies? tongue

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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:44 am

@kathleen3.0 wrote:
I wouldn't have a problem with a stiff, muscular membrane, a la pterosaurs, but then again, with his floating skills, would he need that?

His father had such wings, though thr argument was that Winnie went too far with it and made him unable to use his arms for much more than flying and roosting. Im sure a more useful variant would have been just fine. As to why a floater needs wings... Tyldak wanted them so he could soar (my interpretation: keep up with) the great birds of blue mountain. A glider would be able to both use the wings for more effortless flight, and be able to control the air currents around such wings to gain even better movement control (well, in a logical world, that is).

From a marketing standpoint, a dino-like winged character (like tyldak) would draw attention of children (shoot, I STILL want a Tyldak action figure). I dont know about arms with gum dripping off of them... maybe to attract female children over male children? Is this another case of "men are testosterone freaks and need to be feminized to be acceptable"?

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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:46 am

Pretty sure he uses his wings for endurance. His floating powers are for getting airborne then, when he's in flight he can use his wings to glide along on air current. Bit like an aeroplane, except he doesn't need to run along the ground to take off.

Also... what TrollHammer said...

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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:13 pm

@Sifra wrote:
yes what would Windkin do with those jelly wings? Maybe he spreads honey on them and uses them to catch flies? Because maybe he likes to eat flies? tongue

Bwahaha! Okay, you know you need to draw something about this now, right, Sifra? Because I'm getting a disturbing visual of it that's also strangely, hilariously compelling.

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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:22 pm

I understand why he  might need wings, I just think those things he just got look a bit silly and loose. It would be funny but also fitting if he had gotten his wings looking like a preserver's. Maybe I just want to see the wings in action to see how they work, because right now they look like a vintage chiffon shawl, or something Cher would furtively dig out of the back of her closet when she's feeling down. All he's missing is some sparkling platform boots.

Ok, that would actually be kind of fabulous.

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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:23 pm

There's a reason why most people find those wings silly, they seem improbable. Tyldak's at least seemed to be usable, Windkin's are just wobbly

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PostSubject: Re: Elfquest marketing   Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:27 pm

I just turned the page and saw them in action...ehhh. I don't know. I think it's because when you saw Tyldak flying, it was somehow believable and you could see the movement. I don't really see it with Windkin's wings at all. He looks like he's perfectly still and pasted into the panel.
This shouldn't be bothering me this much.

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