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Embala

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PostSubject: About Wrapstuff    Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:16 am

... facts and questions and answers - and more questions.

What we know - or believe to know - about wrapstuff covers a wide range and seems contradicting at times.

Are there different kinds of wrapstuff for different purposes?

Does wrapstuff work different on mortal and immortal elves?

Does wrapstuff work different depending on the magical skills and mindset of the elf?

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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:24 am

Anyway - this started in the Keeping in Character Listing:

@TrollHammer wrote:
Im not counting time in wrap-sleep toward physical age (Sunstream notwithstanding, as his grow/aging is not typical of normal wrapsleep depicted elsewhere, or else the Wolfriders might have aged to death in their cocoons.)

@Redhead Ember wrote:
I'm pretty sure Sunstream didn't age while in wrapstuff, he just had a late growthspurt. Which of course means that now Ember is technically three years older than her twin-brother, who still insists on calling her Little Sister.

@Embala wrote:
Sunstream was physically (growth) and mentally (learning, sending to tribemates) active while he was in wrapstuff. Definitely not a stasis. I call this life time. In my opinion "active years" are "aging" years ... makes Sunstream exactly the same age as his sister. Not does this matter a lot for an immortal elf.

(Yup, I had to think a bit about this to draw my own conclusions - and found more questions!)

... and no time to gather my thoughts in a decent post right now.


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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:46 pm

Wrapstuff to me is closer to being in hibernation or stasis for that matter. The Wolfriders dreamed as well as communicated with each other during their sleep. If they aged any it was so incredibly slow no one would truly notice aging as we view it. For Sunstream, he was in the palace when he was in wrapstuff. Not only was he learning, but he physically grew because of the palace's influence.

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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:57 pm

Correct me if Im wrong, but this is the stuff Ive gathered on wrapstuff:

It must be completely "sealed" to cause stasis (or whatever it does). The instance we have seen where it is damaged to the point the occupant is exposed, time happens as normal for the occupant (though I havent figured out if they are caused to remain asleep for a time or what: other than the wrapstuff, the Palace pilot was undamaged/not hurt, but still sat there and wasted away... Door(?) had a tear and escaped the Palace, but didnt wake up immediately after the wrapstuff was torn.

Incomplete wrapstuff becomes a nusance weapon (vision obstruction, snare) but has no other effect.

Wrapstuff is generally tough, but easily cut or torn... unless it is wrapped specifically to restrain (Grutch).

Preservers prefer to wait until one is "still-quiet" to wrapstuff for preservation, which is generally interpreted as "asleep"... however we see instances where the target is simply "still" and "quiet" but not asleep, such as injured or Tyldak/Kahvi... or Timmain, or Sunstream.

High-Ones can be physically active within wrapstuff (Timmain tore herself out and perhaps changed to wolf form within a cocoon), even when the cocoon is intended to preserve.

At least one non-High One is seen to age, grow, etc from within a cocoon (suntop/sunstream).

The preservative effect appears to stop time/aging/injury effects to a degree, but does not completely (or sometimes at all) cause the occupant to be mentally inactive. Spiritual, psi, and thinking are variably affected depending on the will (intent) of the occupant.

Wrapstuff appears to be a limitless resource for a preserver (there appears to be a higher volume of wrapstuff that can come out of a preserver than the preserver's physical volume would allow)

Wrapstuff seems to degrade when it is no longer needed for its intended purpose (or the future humans would be mining the stuff for various purposes or at least have a sample around in a museum).

I think some of these features imply that wrapstuff itself is psycho-reactive, whereupon it responds and obeys and exists for the occupant while the occupant has a will to exert (I think One Eye was trapped in a will-less state: if he had a will to exert, his spirit would have left his body and the wrapstuff would allow it, but as he was so badly injured he was beyond the point he could physically will anything,but not dead enough for his spirit to will anything, therefore the wrapstuff went into default "preseserve only" mode (like a computer's read only mode? Temporal write protect?)

Thats all I got for now, want to see what Embala posts.

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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:41 pm

The palace pilots' cocoon was damaged, so he continued to sleep and never woke up.

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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:30 pm

@G0lden wrote:
The Wolfriders dreamed as well as communicated with each other during their sleep.
They did ommunicte while in wrapstuff? Can you please point me to the reference, G0lden?

Somewhere in Dreamtime, I guess ... but I cannot remember anthing that would hint this kind of interaction.

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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:47 pm

I'm just as much intrigued at the use of wrapstuff as a washable, durable, non-sticky dressmaking material.

I'm also interested in how Ahdri went "into the rock" while in wrapstuff, and how the mentally-challenged Trolls managed to haul her all over the WoTM without dropping her, or tearing her wrappings open.

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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:15 pm

@Embala wrote:
@G0lden wrote:
The Wolfriders dreamed as well as communicated with each other during their sleep.
They did ommunicte while in wrapstuff? Can you please point me to the reference, G0lden?

Somewhere in Dreamtime, I guess ... but I cannot remember anthing that would hint this kind of interaction.


King of the Broken Wheel as well as Dreamtime I believe it is mentioned.

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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:02 pm

I think once someone is sealed in wrapstuff-- they are effectively asleep. To tear themselves out, they would have to wake up. Timmain probably woke up because she was jolted by Rayek's use of magic.

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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:09 am

Im not recalling specific communication from elf to elf through wrapstuff (not saying it didnt, just cant point and say "there, that one"), but I assumed if the pilot and various other crew were wrapped and manipulating the scroll and the palace, that their minds had to be active inside the cocoons.  Seemed as though healers were able to sense individuals inside apart, and Sunstream had to be mentally active to be able to anhthing he did in wrapstuff, or there wouldnt have been a point to being wrapped (with exception to recognizing).


I just thought of another attribute: while (generally) things inside are not affected by the conditions they went into "stasis" with (injuries, aging), it seems as though a healer can still manipulate the occupant(s) inside.

All of this seems to make a pretty selectible "last minute save" plot device... XD

In seriousness, though, to me it seems as though the wrapstuff must be psycho-reactive, to be able to adapt to the conditions that are desired to be preserved (unless we can say that the conditions of preservation have not been shown to change after a creature is wrapped.  Then we can contribute the special properties to the Preserver using a particular kind of wrapstuff for the desired effect, much like a spider has a variety of different kinds of silk it can spin: sticky, structural, guy-wire, rappel and others).

Btw, anyone ever look up silkworms to see if there is a flying phase? Brb...

(Added)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silkworm

An interesting read. Draw your own conclusions.

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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:33 am

@Embala wrote:
@G0lden wrote:
The Wolfriders dreamed as well as communicated with each other during their sleep.
They did ommunicte while in wrapstuff? Can you please point me to the reference, G0lden?

Somewhere in Dreamtime, I guess ... but I cannot remember anthing that would hint this kind of interaction.

I know it isn't related to The Long Sleep, but Sunstream was able to send to Cutter right after he Recognized Brill. But of course, it seems Sunstream has special "Wrapstuff Powers", what with seemingly being able to grow inside the cocoon without the cocoon itself growing...


@Embala wrote:
Sunstream was physically (growth) and mentally (learning, sending to tribemates) active while he was in wrapstuff. Definitely not a stasis. I call this life time. In my opinion "active years" are "aging" years ... makes Sunstream exactly the same age as his sister. Not does this matter a lot for an immortal elf.

In the beginning of the Final Quest Special Cutter is said to be 'five hundred odd years'. So seems to me like the time in wrapstuff doesn't count towards age.

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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:23 am

@TrollHammer Silkworms are a popular snack in China and Korea, BTW Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:49 am

Noticed that in the wiki page... made me think they were brought along for snacks initially, but later the breeding stock converted to immortal, near indestuctable. Because reasons.

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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:33 pm

When did the Preservers and the various tribes go their separate ways? All or some of them ended up with Winnowill, but when did they separate from the other Elves?

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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:00 pm

They were not known by any other tribe - not by Wolfriders and Go-Backs and not even by the Sunfolk. No stories and legends, no pics, symbols or anything. They must have parted very early. Maybe all the Preserves were with the group who ended up in BM? The "flock" sticks together ...
There was one other Preserver seen with the Wavedancers in the Elfquest Vol.2 series - in a handful of panels, that's all. In Discovery there were no Preservers anymore.

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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:14 pm

Hmm... underwater wrapstuff spinning?

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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:12 pm

In Discovery, the preservers were hanging out with Shuna, they were still around...unless you meant no preservers for the wave dancers, Embala?

I never got where the preservers went after the original crash. We know they hung out with Winnowill and Voll, and she ordered them away. But even in back stories where Timmain talks about how the trolls and preservers came along in the palace, there's no mention of the preservers even though there is mention of how the trolls just leave and do their own thing. It's kind of strange that one of the 2 creatures the elves (when they were cone heads) is not talked about at all, after putting in an effort to bring them along.

I'm wondering now what part the preservers will play in FQ.


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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:42 pm

@Zadzi wrote:
...unless you meant no preservers for the wave dancers, Embala?
That's what I've meant to say, Zadzi.

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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:56 pm

After the original crash...

I would imagine some of the preservers were possibly killed- and others probably just scattered. A flock of them apparently collected with the elves who founded Blue Mountain-- but were sent away by Winnowil and just hung out in the Forbidden Grove for a few centuries, mindlessly following orders. (That was probably the big difference between them and the trolls as helpers-- a capacity for critical thinking was lacking in Preservers). It does seem likely that there might be other preservers flitting around somewhere within flitting distance of the original crash site.. .or further even, considering how much time has passed. It also seems likely that they have not evolved much since.

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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:52 pm

If you work as a species, you're probably not going to evolve much. That's why sharks are sharks.
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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:13 am

And cockroaches cockroaches. Good point!

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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:18 am

Cockroaches are little miracles of evolution.
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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:56 am

@Embala wrote:
@G0lden wrote:
The Wolfriders dreamed as well as communicated with each other during their sleep.
They did ommunicte while in wrapstuff? Can you please point me to the reference, G0lden?

Somewhere in Dreamtime, I guess ... but I cannot remember anthing that would hint this kind of interaction.
We've seen elves send while within wrapstuff. It's also stated that humans or animals are completely asleep in wrapstuff, while elves' minds can remain active.

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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:00 pm

You'll laugh at me for this, but I really am on the fence about evolutionism versus creationism. But for the sake of the Elfquest universe, I'll go with evolution.

The reason Preservers don't evolve is that, in their current mutation, they apparently have ceased to reproduce. They no longer die a natural death, but there must be a way to kill them. (Rosie was made with dead Preserver DNA, wasn't she?)

Unfortunately, their evolutionary progress is stuck at making wrapstuff and being pests.

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PostSubject: Re: About Wrapstuff    Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:15 pm

I don't see why they have to be separate. The gods would have to be smart enough to make evolution happen and also explain it to us in a way we could understand. That's how I figure it would be.

Exactly which gods(if any) is something that doesn't belong in public schools, but other than that, why can't we all get along?

And that's really true. If the capacity for reproduction is lost, the species won't evolve further, and it's basically functionally extinct.
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