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TrollHammer

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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:57 am

Im working on a theory that thr Elves, Trolls, and Preservers all have different dialects of the same language.  Elves are quoted as having a language that sounds like birds chirping and other "natural" sounds... I cant wrap my head around a Troll that sounds like a twirping bird...

Well, thats the selfish reason for starting to think about it.

There is a proper grounds for such a theory, though:  we already know the Preservers have their own dialect that has its own cadence, verbage, slang, pitch, and overall effect (no, I dont have any degrees in proper speech terminology... I should as my wife to clarify, being a speech therapist?), and some Elves even find their speech annoying.  I dont see why Trolls wouldnt sound different, say a lower register, different terms (still the same basic language), different well know phrases, accents, etc.

Further, Trolls were "simpler" when they split from the Elves, had perhaps a simplified language compared to the Elves (which had mostly used telepathy to communicate between each other, and a perhaps condescending or simplified phrasing to talk to the Trolls before the breakup.  After that, the two groups developed language based on their experiences and isolated interaction over the course of 8000+ years before running into each other again. That they could understand each other at all is unusual, but there would be no reason they should sound the same.

And one more step beyond that: even the different tribes of Elves should/might sound different, with something like ... (abandoned thought chain)

Well, after talking with my wife, she corrected me, that there wouldnt be any accent (a human speaking Elf would have an accent, but Troll and Elf would be a dialectal difference).  So to elaborate I point to Spanish or English:

English: there are at least three main dialectal subsets of English (and not "Good, Bad, and Ugly"): British, American, and Austrailian.  Each of those has other subsets (like New England, Southern, Midwestern, etc in America, Scottish, Irish, etc in British, and others). These all sound distictively different, but all understand each other. Spanish is even more diverse, with multiple words or meanings for a single concept.

Anyway, what I mean is, if you figured the Elves were the British (and each tribe with their own flavor, like scottish, irish, etc), the forest Trolls as Americans, the Frozen Mountain Trolls as english speaking Canadians, and the Preservers as Austrailians (and there's no particular connotations meant by any of that, just an illustration)... so while they all mostly understand each other,they all sound different and possibly have a different vocabulary.

Thats my weird theory...
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wingthing

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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:56 am

I totally headcanon the Wolfriders and Go-Backs with Northern American accents and the Sun Folk and Gliders with British ones. (and not just because I have some very specific voice-actors in mind for some of them... Wink )
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Embala

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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:26 am

That's not an odd theory at all, Hammer, but a very plausible one!

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kathleen3.0

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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:26 am

I think that would require Wendy to have put more effort into worldbuilding than she did.

Like, I would not expect Sun Folk and Wolfriders to speak the same language after several thousands of years of separation. The Québécois have only been separated from the European French for a few hundred and supposedly the two of them each find the other unintelligible.

Ditto the Gliders, etc.
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sun girl

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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:59 pm

Actually, it's not too implausible that all the elfin tribes are still speaking the same language, since languages change most quickly when they come into contact with other languages. Only the WRs ever encountered another spoken language (human), and their relations were too hostile for them to be borrowing lots of words from each other. Nevertheless, we do see that the different tribes have some different slang terms and specific terminology from each other. So from my observation the elves do all speak the same language but with different dialects. Whether those dialects have marked vowel-shifts to differentiate them (like the differences between British, American, Scottish, Irish, Australian) we can only headcanon!

linguistics geek out.
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Sifra

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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:58 pm

Oh yes, the gliders would be british! Maybe the sunfolk could have a scottich or welsch kind of dialect?
I am now imagining a troll sounding like a chirping bird... Laughing

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Davrille

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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:13 pm

TrollHammer wrote:
Im working on a theory that thr Elves, Trolls, and Preservers all have different dialects of the same language.

You're on the right track: It was mentioned in either one of the Gatherums, or the EQ Fan Club Handbook, that the elves and trolls speak the same language but with different accents, and terminology in some areas. JtSE had Sun-Toucher noticing that Cutter spoke with a 'thrum' and later that some words Skywise used were unfamiliar to him.
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Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:12 am

Dunno where I got it from, but I've kinda gotten it into my head that Yun and Zey are (half) siblings. Which, considering their attitude towards each other is rather unlikely, since they'd have to share the same mother and therefore it couldn't simply be a case of not knowing they are related.


Right... back to the language discussion thingy:

Davrille wrote:
JtSE had Sun-Toucher noticing that Cutter spoke with a 'thrum' and later that some words Skywise used were unfamiliar to him.

Words such as... Tree? River? Lake? Razz

Actually... I kinda have a languag-theory as well, though I don't know if it's odd...

My theory is that the Elf-Language doesn't really have any stone-hard grammar rules, but rather allows for playing around with it to a much larger degree than any (Earth) human languages.
Take the names Tekshu and Mekda, maybe the fact that there's a T and a M in from of the ek (rock) doesn't really mean anything, other than their respective parents thinking it sounded better than Ekshu and Ekda.
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Miss Gillespie

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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:30 am

sun girl wrote:
Actually, it's not too implausible that all the elfin tribes are still speaking the same language, since languages change most quickly when they come into contact with other languages. Only the WRs ever encountered another spoken language (human), and their relations were too hostile for them to be borrowing lots of words from each other. Nevertheless, we do see that the different tribes have some different slang terms and specific terminology from each other.
linguistics geek out.

Old human languages tend to start from a "high point" with complicated grammatical rules and winded semantics. The longer such a languages is "used" (spoken) the more it's complicated structure gets broken down and smoothed out for an easier usage (kind of what happened to Latin in the Medieval Time).

Red's theory sound reasonable, btw Smile

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Embala

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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:55 pm

Redhead Ember wrote:
Zadzi wrote:
I thought Dodia was already at the palace? There was a pic of her at the end of Shards being there. Unless they all left or something.

Yup, she is. Richard confirmed it a while ago.
Weird sleep-deprived theory:

Dodia was picked up by the Palace at the end of SHARDS (and stayed).
Her Recognition with Door is still canon - so she must be pregnant.
There was no healer-induced abortion.
NoName was born and got a name.
Annahvi is the son of Dodia and Door. Razz

... after all he has the sour mood and attitude of a Glider ...
*head hits pillows* Sleep

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Davrille

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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Sat Jan 02, 2016 5:00 pm

Redhead Ember wrote:

Davrille wrote:
JtSE had Sun-Toucher noticing that Cutter spoke with a 'thrum' and later that some words Skywise used were unfamiliar to him.

Words such as... Tree? River? Lake? Razz

"Snow", "snowstorm" and "fox", IIRC Cool
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TrollHammer

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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:48 am

Lol, dont forget the Wolfriders didnt have words for "sunburn", "cactus", "oasis", and "wives dont make good provisions in the desert, put her back and get more water!"

wingthing wrote:
I totally headcanon the Wolfriders and Go-Backs with Northern American accents and the Sun Folk and Gliders with British ones. (and not just because I have some very specific voice-actors in mind for some of them...  Wink )

Heh heh... that actually fits a parallel that could be drawn between it and another story that was being produced at the time: a story that had furry beasts, heroes racing through the trees, communities in vast deserts, warfare in frozen wastes, halucinations in swamps, alien races, battles of wit and will, and giant spherical orbs of domination...

Too bad EQ couldnt parallel SW once again with a new quest coinciding with movie releases... lol...

But yeah, a death-orb full of brittish accented dictators and their minions with fancy head-gear, vs american accented rebellious heroes racing around trying to attack said death orb with single/double-seater conveyances...

But this leaves questions as I ramble...  if...

Cutter=Luke?
Leetah=Leia? (but then Cutter had kids with his sister... nope, Leetah /= Leia)
Winnowil=Emperor?
Two-Edge=Vader? (Or would he be Yoda?  Yoda twisted the truth a bit and isnt Luke's father, same with Obi Wan... but strictly speaking, that means Bearclaw is Vader.... which fits in a twisted way, in that both are something to be feared!)
The Great Egg=Death Star? (World Class spacefaring Domination Vehicle... one has a big laser that can destroy a world... the other has (theoretical) time travel that could change the history of a world... yeah, its a fit!)
Skywise=Han Solo?   (Han Solo and Luke Skywalker became like brothers over time, and one was even put into stasis, one was put into an 'owned' roll while blind, both spent some time together in the desert... and I suppose possibly both kissed the same girl....)

Then... theres some mix-ups...

Han Solo had Chewbacca for a companion... does this make Timmain Chewbacca?  She's furry but intelligent and tinkers with spaceships... maybe? This parallel does paint some pictures I dont really want to have painted though, especially with current events...

Skywise was sweet on Aroree for a while, is Aroree Leia?  I mean, technically bkth had a hand in destroying their orb of domination, so... hmm...

Sorry if this has been brought up elsewhere, Im sure its not original thinking, just rambling while I try to fall asleep.  Ignore me! Smile and yes, I am highly tempted to click the link to the SW discussion, but I havent seen the movie yet and dont want to spoil it for myself....
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Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:13 am

Davrille wrote:
Redhead Ember wrote:

Davrille wrote:
JtSE had Sun-Toucher noticing that Cutter spoke with a 'thrum' and later that some words Skywise used were unfamiliar to him.

Words such as... Tree? River? Lake? Razz

"Snow", "snowstorm" and "fox", IIRC Cool

He wouldn't know about those either...

Suntoucher


TrollHammer wrote:
Lol, dont forget the Wolfriders didnt have words for "sunburn", "cactus", "oasis", and "wives dont make good provisions in the desert, put her back and get more water!"

Silly Cutter...

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Startear

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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:46 pm

One thing though that always bugged me was that the tribes all have what seems to be the same word for High Ones, even the Wavedancers and Gliders, when we were told that in the Wolfrider's history, the word came from the growing height difference.

I mean, it is a little far-stretched that five tribes just happened to pick the same word to describe their ancestors, no?

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Sifra

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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:48 pm

Yes, that is odd. It would have been fun if one tribe had an entirely different name for them, and it took weeks for the other tribe to figure out who they were talking about...

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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:28 am

I actually have a theory that might solve that problem.

Basically my theory is that all elves - even those who can't send consciously - have some latent telepathic abilities which allows then to "know" what the other person is saying.
For example Cutter knew that 'Tyleet' was supposed to mean The Gift from the Healer, not The Gift for the Healer. That... and logical reasoning.
So basically the Gliders did have another word for High Ones, but when Cutter referred to them as such Winnowill knew what he was talking about, even though she'd never heard the word before. Of course the fact that the Wolfriders described their ancestors primarily by being taller than them fit quite well into Winnowill's scheming nature.
This made a whole lot more sense when I was thinking it...

Another language-theory I have is that the Ah in for example Leetah doesn't just mean 'light' in the sense of something that glows but also in the sense of having a talent for something, have a light for it.
Leetah, obviously, has a pretty big talent for healing, and I'm sure Alekah had a big talent for rockshaping.
Which brings us to the Wolfriders' untranslated names. Maybe several of them have 'ah' in their names.
Cutter has a pretty big talent for... well... cutting.
Strongbow has a talent for archery.
Skywise has a talent for astronomy.
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Vaeri

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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:00 am

Cutter and Skywise make sense for your theory Ember, considering their soulnames are "Tam" and "Fahr" but Strongbow is "Wyl". so i dunno about that...
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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:02 am

Will

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Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:37 am

Vaeri wrote:
Cutter and Skywise make sense for your theory Ember, considering their soulnames are "Tam" and "Fahr" but Strongbow is "Wyl". so i dunno about that...

What's their soulnames got to do with what their untranslated tribenames are?
Tyleet's tribename is untranslated, probably because it would be rather tiresome to constantly read about Healer's Gift, and her soulname is 'Sohn'.
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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:36 am

Concerning the previous page of this conversation, about languages changing over time. While a human population's language can change drastically in, say, a 1000 years, for an elf tribe it is much less likely, because some of the elders at least would have been alive that time ago in the past.

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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:45 am

If I remember correctly, there was a bit in the novelization of JtSE that talked about Suntoucher recognizing the word "snow" but vaguely. One thing we're leaving out of this equation is the elves have some kind of racial memory. I know I've seen it referenced, mostly in extra material, a few times.

Speaking of odd theories, though, here's one for you:

Cutter dies and merges with Timmain. There's a personality struggle to be the dominant one - not necessarily the "Hostile Takeover" kind, but a struggle. Jink, in a youthful, innocent attempt to help, wipes Timmain so Cutter can ascend. The body becomes Cutter's - hence the facefur, because he wants it that way and the youthfulness because he is immortal now. Also the bits about them having been complacent and other elves dying but the apparent fuzziness of those memories. And hey, if Timmain birthed Jink and then became Cutter, then that would also explain the "my daughter" comments.
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Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:58 am

So... you're saying that the person from FutureQuest, whom we've all assumed to be Jink's father is actually Jink's mother?

affraid
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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:14 pm

Given the closeness of Cutter and Skywise (and the literal closeness of Timmain and Cutter, bahhumbug), then "Tam" is probably both father and mother to Jink.
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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:18 pm

I don't remember FutureQuest well enough to speculate on that, but I am fascinated by the linguistics discussion going on in this thread!
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Embala

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PostSubject: Re: Oddest EQ theories?   Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:53 pm

Cloudhead, in case you long for more liguistics discussion take a look at the old SoC HERE

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