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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:41 pm

Cutter is about to cope with an existential crisis by doing shrooms

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:33 pm

Doing them how? Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:02 am

@Lunakat wrote:
Cutter is about to cope with an existential crisis by doing shrooms

I guess this would be the best time.


@ Multi-Facets....heeehee Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:03 am

@multi-facets-- I'm knot sure!

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:58 am

I'm slightly irritated by Wendy's comment that we may or may not meet the shrooms. If we're not going to meet them, don't put them on the effing cover! She's treating fans like they're stupid.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:04 am

You know, all I can think of with these fungus-y treeish elves is that part in the original quest where, before finding Nonna and Adar, they sense that the forest around them has been touched by elfin magic. http://elfquest.com/read/index.php?s=OQ/OQ08&p=10

And also the part of the forest in Full Circle where Madcoil was defeated, where the pool of twisted elfin magic gone bad made the plantlife in the area all gnarled-looking. http://elfquest.com/read/index.php?s=IABB&p=140

I mean, I know both instances already have explanations for them, but this sort of thing is what the fungus elves remind me of: Ancient magic gone bad and twisted. Not saying that they aren't elves and are instead remnants of magic, or course, since the call was meant specifically for elves and it did indeed reach them. It's just...I will be awfully surprised if they turn out to be anything but morally questionable.

Perhaps they've used magic in the past to become so integrated with Abode's wilderness in order to survive that they simply can't conceive of another way to live. Or maybe they physically wouldn't be able to leave Abode at all, thus why the call was more annoying to them than anything. Maybe the very magic that was meant to tie them so well to the lifecycle of the planet has gone bad inside of them somehow.

Of all the bits of Final Quest so far, I've got to admit that these new elves intrigue me the most.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:09 am

Yeah, I'm guessing that she's trying to create some mystery and anticipation for this issue, but it's very obvious that we're going to meet the Ents. Maybe she's also trying to discourage people from speculating about the Ents by pretending we may not meet them, because fan speculation seems to get her panties in a twist and she feels the need to get in there and police it.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:23 pm

I guess I'm in a good mood today, but I quite like this cover!

Sure, I'm not a huge fan of the boob squiggles, mostly because I'm not sure what they represent anatomically. Are they supposed to indicate texture? Lichen? Mostly, they just remind me that I'm looking at a drawing.

Sprawled, exhausted Cutter looks great, even if his foreshortened hand is just a little too big. I certainly prefer this cover to #13.

Either the tree elves are active shapeshifters or their design has changed a bit since their original appearance. I think they definitely looked more "tree-like" in our first look at them. The female was a different color and her hand was more defined and "twiggy." But this "lichen" approach is refreshingly novel! Tree elves are such a tired trope, and this certainly puts a new spin on it.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I've been excited by the design of the "tree elves" from our first glimpse of them when Sunstream sent out his call. They are absolutely bizarre-looking, a real departure from the "pretty" elves we know and love. I think Wendy may have wanted to explore in this design direction with the Wavedancers. Sunstream's underwater form is extremely weird and IMO unattractive, for example. But her hands were somewhat tied by what came before, and the existing Wavedancers always struck me as low-rent versions of the Black Mermaid designs (no offense to the Wavedancer lovers out there).

As for Wendy taking umbrage with terminology and speculation--what else is new? No one is supposed to talk about anything but what a talented genius she is. I was very interested to read on the facebook page that the hosts of the Elfquest Show podcast submit their episodes to Wendy and Richard for pre-approval prior to release. The host explained that this was so that they could veto inclusion of any conversations that might have inadvertently included spoilers. I was really shocked to hear this! I listen to the podcast when new episodes come out, but I've been a bit surprised that they haven't bothered to seek out any fans who are less than 100% impressed by FQ. I participate in several online fandoms, including many podcasts, and on-going debate about the quality of the property is a mainstay of discussion in every fandom except EQ. Now, I have my answer. How could they invite critical guests to participate if they know they have to submit the episode to WaRP for approval?
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:55 pm

I agree with what Wisp said about the tree elves. I'm glad to see a departure from the usual. Of course they are a variation on the age old theme of the Green Man or tree nymphs or Ents or whatnot. This idea of a plant-being is as old as human imagination. But I've always said-- this is what Elfquest does. It takes existing, common fantasy tropes and reimagines them. Every creature in Elfquest is from the standard lexicon: elves, fairies, mermaids, etc..now we have this.

The squiggles? Whatever. It is a drawing. I don't think they are bad. You guys wouldn't be noticing them if whoever drew them (Wendy or Sonny) had tapered the brush they were using.

As far as the podcast is concerned-- I'm not surprised. It makes sense in a way. David Miz started this podcast and, through doing it, became friends with the Pinis. Actual, real-life friends. I'm sure that, whatever their attitude toward their fans and their own comic, the Pinis are nice enough in person. I've met Wendy a few times and she seems very sweet. So why would David not want to continue to communicate with them (especially considering what a fan he is of Elfquest) and why would anyone choose to publicly criticize a personal friend?

That said-- they aren't the only ones capable of making a podcast. Any single one of us could have done the same if we had wanted.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:14 pm

I think the issue with the "scribbles" on the cover is they look unfinished, especially for a cover. Using more sizes of brush or going back in and cleaning up the blobby ends would probably make it look a lot better. I would think that cover art is important enough to warrant this kind of detail work and polishing, but "good enough is good enough" seems to be the standard of FQ, particularly with the colouring.

(It's so frustrating when you know what the almost limitless possibilities of Photoshop are...!)
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:26 pm

@sun girl wrote:
I think the issue with the "scribbles" on the cover is they look unfinished, especially for a cover.
Thaaaaat!
When I first saw it I thought somebody had taken the original and put it through ms paint and added the scribbles.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:33 pm

Ya know, I don't exactly love the linework in Final Quest or anything, but I have to admit it's being severely under-served by the colouring generally. When I think back to the multiple-titles era, when there were, um... varying levels of talent in the stable, I remember all the titles that had Suzanne Dechnik as colourist were just a joy to look at because of her beautiful technique, no matter how wonky the linework sometimes was. That could be personal bias, my first exposure to EQ (and always my true love of the entire series) was the Starblaze editions with their lush ethereal watercolours. This flat and frankly amateurish style in FQ falls so short.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:50 pm

@Lunakat wrote:

I agree with what Wisp said about the tree elves. I'm glad to see a departure from the usual. Of course they are a variation on the age old theme of the Green Man or tree nymphs or Ents or whatnot. This idea of a plant-being is as old as human imagination. But I've always said-- this is what Elfquest does. It takes existing, common fantasy tropes and reimagines them. Every creature in Elfquest is from the standard lexicon: elves, fairies, mermaids, etc..now we have this.

And it's not just ElfQuest that does this. Just about everything does this. Everything borrows from something pre-existing out there that someone, somewhere wrote.

@Lunakat wrote:

The squiggles? Whatever. It is a drawing. I don't think they are bad. You guys wouldn't be noticing them if whoever drew them (Wendy or Sonny) had tapered the brush they were using.

For me, it's the light color of the squiggles. While the "tree elves" are colored a dark brown, there's these super light brown squiggles that contrast the darker colors. It's no different, to me, then when I saw Leetah in color - her dark complexion - my eyes, were actually more drawn to her dress (because it was so vibrant red and blue). Same thing happens when I see a woman with dark colored hair, and she has light colored eyes. My attention is immediately drawn to the eyes, because they are such a contrast to the dark color. Where as all those previous things were typically nicely done - these squiggles look like someone just scribbled something on there (more on accident than anything), as it doesn't - to me - add depth or anything to the image.

@Lunakat wrote:

As far as the podcast is concerned-- I'm not surprised. It makes sense in a way. David Miz started this podcast and, through doing it, became friends with the Pinis. Actual, real-life friends. I'm sure that, whatever their attitude toward their fans and their own comic, the Pinis are nice enough in person. I've met Wendy a few times and she seems very sweet. So why would David not want to continue to communicate with them (especially considering what a fan he is of Elfquest) and why would anyone choose to publicly criticize a personal friend? That said-- they aren't the only ones capable of making a podcast. Any single one of us could have done the same if we had wanted.

On this I agree. Especially since they also post the podcast on ElfQuest's official website. It's no surprise that the creators of the series would want to pre-screen anything that they might be posting on their website. And as someone who does a podcast myself - if Marvel said, "We want to host your Comic Relief Podcast on our site, but want to pre-screen any discussion about Marvel." I'd do it, because it's an amazing opportunity and an amazing amount of exposure, even if it meant changing some of the things we'd normally say.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:31 pm

I don't really have a problem with the squiggles, but then I don't notice stuff like that unless it's pointed out. I'm still annoyed about the whole THEY'RE NOT TREE ELVES YOU GUYS NEED TO THINK OUT OF THE BOX comment. It just feels controlling. Is it really the end of the world to think along the lines that they MIGHT be tree elves? Or reminiscent of them? Jeez.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:14 pm

@sun girl wrote:
I think the issue with the "scribbles" on the cover is they look unfinished, especially for a cover.
That's why is said that if the line were tapered you wouldn't be noticing them as much. A tapered line would make them look deliberate and finished-- as opposed to this brush that got used. You can adjust your brushes in Photoshop to get whatever line effect you want. This was just a poor choice.

Quote :
Using more sizes of brush or going back in and cleaning up the blobby ends would probably make it look a lot better.
Exactly.

Quote :
I would think that cover art is important enough to warrant this kind of detail work and polishing, but "good enough is good enough" seems to be the standard of FQ, particularly with the coloring
Someone said, earlier, that the coloring work was amateurish. I do agree with that. At best it's okay-- but that last issue was awful. The drawings are still great. The problem is that, rather than enhancing the line art, like most of the pre-photoshop coloring did-- it seems that lately the coloring is just detracting from it. I understand that Wendy was experimenting and trying new things-- and I understand the appeal of hiring a friend to work with -- but at this point, it would be better to hire a professional colorist who is really good at coloring. The coloring should make the art look even better, not mediocre. Her illustration skills are not mediocre. They are above average. I think it's the color that's bringing it down at this point.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:45 pm

With a good colorist I think it could look great

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:14 pm

@faeriegirl wrote:
Wendy said this on Facebook: "EVERYBODY! Right now! Stop calling them "tree elves!" Call 'em "fungus amungus" if you want. Anyway, this image could be misleading. You don't know when or even IF we'll meet these new elves. But if we do, rest assured this is not a rehash of LOTR or any established fantasy you've ever read. Keep thinking outside of the box."
Those Treefungusmungus Elves or whatever they are supposed to be called ... I had some thoughts about them. Got distracted by my own little Christmas project. Well, trying to take Wendy Pini's word's literally ...

... what do we know? (or think we know based on EQ and what we SEE)

1. The trio totally looked like TreeElves when they were introduced. Colors and texture, mossy hair and knobbly limbs, even sprouting leaves. This does not mean that they have ever crossbred with Abodian vegetation. Selfshapers and healers can create this mimikry ... leaf adornements included.
And they are probably mobile to some degree - Lady Tree spotted a perfect leg very similar to Winnowill.

2. On the cover of FQ #14 those tree bodies look as dead as they can be. Falling apart, rotten and decomposed ... but these elfin creatures obviously are still alive. Though I like to call them TreeZombies I don't think EQ would pull a Walking Dead.

3. They are callled the "most hidden of the hidden".
Hhmmm... small Wolfriders dwelling in a forest Holt, Sunfolk living in an isolated oasis, Gliders hiding within a huge mountain and Wavedancers in the seas - all are well hidden. And all of them were discovered by Humans ... Sunfolk and Wavedancers later than the others. (We don't see the Go-Backs had problems with human settlers so far.)
Living in a forest camouflaged as trees would be better hidden ... but does it qualify as "most hidden of the hidden"? They can be discovered by Humans just like Wolfriders and their habitat can be destroyed like the Holts or Sorrows End.

4. We know that Elves (Coneheads) like to exist as a hive mind. The Coneheads pretty much formed one. The Gliders tried to achieve it. The Wavedancers are described as a shoal.


Some years ago when there was talk about a Final Quest coming I wondered where we could find other, unknown elves. I thought of an unknown continent - Hearthstone with its vukcano and the hinted dangerous elves seemed to be an educated guess.

Another speculation was about a different culture in significantly different envirionment. So far we had:
Ground dwellers - the Wolfrideres in the forest, Sunfolk in the desert and Go-Backs in the icy plains.
The Gliders were basically air dwellers, flying elves locked away in a mountain.
Water dwellers in the sea - the Wavedancers.

What's left? My thoughts wandered underground ... could there be Elves inhabiting a cave and tunnel system like the Trolls? Or - living underground like Wavedancers live in the water? My idea was influenced by the "Terrians" from EARTH 2. Those creatures are totally living underground and seem to be able to "swim" through soil and stone like fish through water.

Elves who are totally assimilated to live underground would be NEW.

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Last edited by Embala on Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:44 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : typos)
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:15 pm

Years ago I've learned the largest living organism on Earth is the Oregon honey mushroom ...

... and now Wendy Pini tells us: Call them Fungus Amungus!

What if ... a group of Firstcomes managed to hide from the WoTMs by becoming an integral part of this world? Can it be that they had magic users who discovered a mushroom organism underground and found a way to merge with it? Try to imagine ...

The elfin spirits live within this spreading organism, both hiding and thriving. These aliens would not have a problem to share a body - a hive mind is familiar to them anyway.

After 20 millennia they would not be interested in the Palace too much. The WoTMs is literally their home soil. And it functions similar as the Palace and/or the spirit sphere.
They are not able to travel to the Palace because their "body" is part of Abode's nature.
There is no need to do so because there are no immediate life threatening dangers. Fire, flood, change in environment and climate would not be able to kill the whole organism easily. In case the "elves" kept some specific magic to grant necessary adeptions this mycelium can live forever.

It would even fit with WP's remark that we might not see those new elves at all. You can walk over them and wouldn't notice!

So who are the FungGuys we've seen?

Then and now the fungus sprouts fruit bodies - visible mushrooms. Maybe they are individual spirits who "visit" the world above for whatever reason (possible reproduction included?). The fungus infects young trees, influences their growth to develope elfin shapes (because that's how they remember/envision themselves) and the spirits temporarily live as such a tree-fungus organism (first encounter).

As it is the nature of a fungus to consume its host the tree structure will die and rot more or less soon while the spirits still control the fungus part - the TreeZombies (state on the #14 cover).

When the tree structure is completely devoured the spirits simply return in the mycelium.


What do you think? Is there a possibility it could work similar like this?

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Last edited by Embala on Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:48 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : typos)
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:24 pm

As a side note - I don't get the impression that those FungGuys want to help Cutter less that the female is a healer.

Judging from look and mood of the drawing (and considering my speculations about the fungus nature) I'm expecting that they'll try to devour Cutter ... or at least use his fully moveable body.

Of course I can be wrong and this is the female's generic facial expression and the male hauls his torso to Cutter because he's so concerned about the visitor's state ... O.O

... or I'm mislead again by WP's trickery and my gloomy expectations! Wink

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Last edited by Embala on Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:51 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : typos)
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:46 pm

@Embala wrote:

What's left? My thoughts wandered underground ... could there be Elves inhabiting a cave and tunnel system like the Trolls? Or - living underground like Wavedancers live in the water? My idea was influenced by the "Terrians" from EARTH 2. Those creatures are totally living underground and seem to be able to "swin" through soil and stone like fish through water.

Elves who are totally assimilated to live underground would be NEW.

The drow are underground elfs...
I don't know Earth 2 but I remember a guy in one of David Eddings' book series who could travel trough earth somehow. His name was Relg. I loved him!

I'm all for the fung guys trying to eat Cutter! The female seems pretty harmless to me but the guy crawling up on him defenitely looks a bit hungry and the guy in the back looks a bit creepy too...

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:04 pm

Underground elves would be NEW ... for ElfQuest Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:29 pm

I like all the theories, and was going to post one myself but its been said already (to a degree) so Ill expand on what Lurks said a page or two back.

My thought was what if these arent beings at all, but a manifestation of magic? Redlance made several "faces in the woods" near dwellings to scare off humans... what if he had been hitting the dreamberries too much one night and mutated some strangleweed into animated scarecrows?

The things that nag at me and beg for an answer:

-Unless WP does a Disney>Starwars and ret-cons Rebels and Future Quest (explaining it away as "one of the many stories of the scroll of colors that might have could have happened but didnt will-have happened...blah blah blah"), then then by Timmain commenting that there is only one path that will lead the Elves off the planet, and this requires Cutter to lead them AND that Cutter must be influenced by something within the experience/understanding of a Wolfrider it means to me that he's not going to be saved or influenced (or perhaps even meet) a new "type" of elf.

-She let something slip by saying she doesnt want us to think of these things on the cover as "tree elves".  They might not be "trees", but just as easily they might not be "elves", but rather bad magic responding to him or traces of Redlance's work from years before (or, of course, a different tree shaper... shoot, you could have a Winnie-type tree shaper around, shaping all sorts of insane things of plants much like Winnie did with animals.)  

-Timmain's implication is that magic users not found within the wolfriders would be a bad thing for him to encounter (IE anything that reminds him of Timmain, ie Rayak, Winnowil, Suntop, Savah, etc)  mildly implied would be any magic user (as they were not grounded in magic use), but Wolfriders had native healers and tree shapers in his time.

What we know:
To a degree, tree shaping isnt 100% ruled out as outside a wolfrider's world, and there are some organic looking things on the cover...
They arent intended to be "Tree Elves" (that, or its supposed to be a surprise, which I cant imagine things getting that silly)...
Bad Magic is not outside of Wolfrider World (Madcoil has firm roots in Cutter's world)
Bad/twisted magic ++ Animals has been overdone, but we havent seen much in the way of bad/twisted magic ++ plant life.  We "see" bad magic ++ the mind in Mindcoil.  We sort of see twisted magic ++ stone in Blue Mountain's morph into the Great Egg (of death!) and subsequent destruction.

What better code name for a "Plant-Coil" than a fungus amongus?  (Though, truth be told, fungi are not plants...)
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:20 am

I wouldn't read too much into the "Don't call them 'Tree Elves', call them 'Fungus Amungus'!" comment and take it to mean that they're (possibly) neither trees nor elves.
It's Wendy Pini we're talking about. She's evil! She likes messing with our minds!

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:30 am

Very possible too.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #14   Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:21 am

Except the Fung-ky Ones have been hearing the Palace Call. It's an interesting idea that they're not elves, but I'm not sure it pans out.
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