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 Unanswered question about the Wavedancers

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Wisp

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PostSubject: Unanswered question about the Wavedancers   Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:47 pm

Forgive me if this has been answered elsewhere and I missed it.

I have a memory of Wendy offering a little tease/clue about the Wavedancers to the effect that we should be asking why the two young members of the tribe, Puffer and Moonmirror, are still so small. She seemed to imply that they were consciously being kept (or keeping themselves?) in an immature state, or at least small stature. We last saw them on page 20, issue 10, and they did still look like children, both in size and expression. In fact, they looked younger than Korafay despite being many decades her elders.

Does anyone else remember this? And do you think it's still relevant or just an abandoned idea?

Also, Wavedancer related non sequitur, but it occurs to me that Dart/Mender aren't the first same-sex romantic dyad we've seen in EQ. There was a male-male couple in the old wavedancers too! Not sure if that counts, since those stories were expunged from the canon, but they were definitely EQ in my mind when I was buying the individual issues. I actually really liked the portrayal too--there was not any big deal made of it at all, they were just background members of the tribe who happened to be a same-sex couple. Just interesting that the earliest, open depiction of this type of pairing did not spring from the pen of WaRP.
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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Unanswered question about the Wavedancers   Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:52 pm

I do remember the male couple in the original Wavedancers story...and that couple was pretty much established from the beginning, and yes I also liked the dynamic since it was 'no big deal'.... seriously, so what, a male couple, what's the big deal...it's been done before and in a much more open uncontrived way with Black Mermaid. Unlike now where there's such a need for ceremonious, contrived shots, like 'Oooh look a MALE MALE COUPLE IN EQ OMG'. Not sure if the original Wavedancer couple 'counts' as EQ anymore though since the Pinis seem to have washed their hands of that entire enterprise...sadly.

I don't remember anything about the Wendy teaser about Puffer and Moonmirror. I am leaning toward thinking that the idea might be abandoned because of Wendy's other comments from the past about other things. Such as elves' sexual preferences, how elves have NO sexual preference, how Dart doesn't 'prefer' male elves (that was consistently in response to fan's Dart/Kimo questions)...but then she seemed to turn that and do Dart/Mender and it almost felt like it was to give fans what they wanted but on her terms only. I don't know, just what it felt like to me.

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Shadowpath

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PostSubject: Re: Unanswered question about the Wavedancers   Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:15 pm

Never heard anything about their seeming eternal child state.
I'd guess it could have been done to give the Wavedancers some sort of hope?
That or Wendy just forgot to age them? Which seems to be the case with Trinket. (Tho that could be because aging in troll is different?)
How much time has passed since the palace came back?

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Embala

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PostSubject: Re: Unanswered question about the Wavedancers   Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:25 pm

@Wisp wrote:
I have a memory of Wendy offering a little tease/clue about the Wavedancers to the effect that we should be asking why the two young members of the tribe, Puffer and Moonmirror, are still so small.
I remember the same - along the lines that it was "Surge's fault". No further explanation ... we guessed whether it can have to do with "living in fear" but there never was a solution. I agree with Zadzi that it's probably an abandoned idea. Or it will come up again much later - who knows.

About the possibly "immature" Wavedancer cubs ... Take another look at Tumble, Moonmirror and Puffer! They are small but even in DISCOVERY they did not look adolescent anymore. "Little" Puffer has the abs and biceps and shoulders of a man and Moonmirror shows bust and hips of a matured female. They are of small size yet have the build of adults ... like the Wolfriders and other elves of short growth.

Marom and Paffa were a handsome couple. I love her contrasts and the selfevident love they showed. Their relationship was presented as normal and casually as Maron's fatherhood.

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Wisp

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PostSubject: Re: Unanswered question about the Wavedancers   Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:52 pm

Ok, just went back to glance at Discovery. The three young wavedancers are still a bit perplexing to me. First, it's interesting that Brill notes they're older than Sunstream, yet "so young." I'd say all three are depicted as early adolescents with some secondary sex characteristics, but undeniably still youthful in appearance. Puffer looks slightly older than the other two--maybe 18/19 to their 14/15. This is all quite subjective, however. Then in the FQ Special, Moonmirror might look a little older (difficult to judge) but the brown-haired boy looks the same as he always has. I am curious about why they stayed small when their parents and tribemates are all larger.
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Embala

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PostSubject: Re: Unanswered question about the Wavedancers   Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:34 pm

That's weird because Puffer is - or should I say was? -clearly the youngest  in WAVEDANCERS #1. He's a "kindergarden child" and Tumble a young teen.

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Wisp

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PostSubject: Re: Unanswered question about the Wavedancers   Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:47 pm

Oh dear, I think I mixed up the names--strike that, reverse it! Puffer is the boy with the reddish-brown hair, Foam's son? And Tumble is the one with the black hair and seaweed halter. If so, Tumble looks oldest to me and Puffer looks youngest. Even in Discovery, Tumble looks fully late-adolescent IMO, and I'm not sure we've really gotten a good look at him since.
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Embala

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PostSubject: Re: Unanswered question about the Wavedancers   Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:50 pm

Problem solved! Fishy

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Wisp

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PostSubject: Re: Unanswered question about the Wavedancers   Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:24 pm

For anyone interested, Wendy explicitly answered this question in her interview on the Elfquest Podcast!

Although Tumble, Moonmirror, and Puffer were explicitly children/youngsters in the ongoing WD issues, when Wendy took over with The Discovery, she decided to depict them as ancient elves stunted (physically and perhaps emotionally/developmentally?) by the atmosphere of fear in the tribe. She certainly intended them all to be old enough to qualify as adults by the time of Discovery. Surge didn't cause them to be stunted, but the fact that the Wavedancers chose him to be their leader reflects their fearful attitude. I guess we can chalk this all up Wendy's storytelling adjustments. It's good to be reminded that the EQ stories told by anyone other than Wendy and Richard are not ironclad canon at this point.
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Embala

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PostSubject: Re: Unanswered question about the Wavedancers   Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:52 pm

Thank you for the information, Wisp! Good to have some kind of conclusion to this question. Though I would have preferred to learn it during the storytelling itself ...

I'm sure @ChristinaRaibert will be very interested to learn about this when she returns.

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Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: Unanswered question about the Wavedancers   Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:24 am

Well... Brill did say to Sunstream that the "pips" were Older than you, but oh so young.

I'm pretty sure they are by far younger than the rest of the Wavedancers*, but compared to most of the Wolfriders they're ancient.
Bit like how Savah way back during Fire and Flight referred to Treestump as being But a stripling despite the fact that among the Wolfriders he was the oldest.


*Except for Korafay, of course...
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Startear

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PostSubject: Re: Unanswered question about the Wavedancers   Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:52 pm

So Wavedancer pips are like the coral reefs they call home... too much stress hinders their growth?

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PostSubject: Re: Unanswered question about the Wavedancers   Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:56 pm

rofl

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wingthing

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PostSubject: Re: Unanswered question about the Wavedancers   Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:22 am

@Redhead Ember wrote:
Well... Brill did say to Sunstream that the "pips" were Older than you, but oh so young.

I know Brill was just being sentimental, but that line always struck me as... kinda passive-aggressive. I always imagined Sunstream giving her the side-eye in the next (unseen) panel, his inner monologue going: "Soo... did you just neg me for being too young for you? Or are you negging them for being too immature?"
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Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: Unanswered question about the Wavedancers   Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:04 am

I think she simply meant They're older than you in years, but compared to the rest of us they're just pips.

The fact that they're much older than thought actually makes Skimback and Sandsparkle losing their pip even sadder! First pip born in centuries, and it died...
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kathleen3.0

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PostSubject: Re: Unanswered question about the Wavedancers   Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:58 pm

@wingthing wrote:
@Redhead Ember wrote:
Well... Brill did say to Sunstream that the "pips" were Older than you, but oh so young.

I know Brill was just being sentimental, but that line always struck me as... kinda passive-aggressive. I always imagined Sunstream giving her the side-eye in the next (unseen) panel, his inner monologue going: "Soo... did you just neg me for being too young for you? Or are you negging them for being too immature?"

I think your dislike of Brill is colouring your perception of the statement.

To me, it comes across as Wendy thinking that she has to actively introduce the Wavedancers, but instead of finding a way to do it naturally, or letting them be named over time, she devoted unnecessary dialog and panels to it. Sure, she could have spent that time showing us Sunstream and Brill interacting in a way that makes their romance more believable, but then we wouldn't know who all these background, basically speechless characters were. Oh, well.
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Startear

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PostSubject: Re: Unanswered question about the Wavedancers   Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:26 pm

Yeah, I agree regarding the introduction thing.

The problem is that Sunstream and Brill have been meeting each other for a little while by Discovery. Why wait so long to say "that's them, that is our elder, etc..." Yes, I know many readers at that point most likely either didn't know who Strand, No-Ripple or Foam were, or had forgotten. But look, Zhantee wasn't introduced before he was important. Why not do the same with the Wavedancers?

Or, do more like this; Brill say "Oh Moonmirror"  as the pips went off to race some slaptails, or them both witnessing Krill's hunting. "Krill is very skilled!" To which Brill maybe replies Yes, my sister has been hunting every chance she had, ever since our parents died." Or something like that. and kept it short. Instead of treating it like a roll call introduction to these new characters, rather make it fall home that both have been meeting each other long enough that Sunstream has learned some of their names.

And then, when Brill has to return to her body, Sunstream is about to send "gentle currents" (wavedancer version of shade and sweet water) before she answers with his soulname?

Gah, I don't know if I'm coherent anymore Basically, like this;

**Gentle currents, Bri-**

**Klynn!**

**!!!**

That would even furter establish that this has gone on for some time, and that they are learning about each other's culture's. I think at least.

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Last edited by Startear on Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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wingthing

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PostSubject: Re: Unanswered question about the Wavedancers   Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:28 pm

@kathleen3.0 wrote:
I think your dislike of Brill is colouring your perception of the statement.


Oh, I KNOW my dislike of Brill is colouring my perception! Twisted Evil

katheleen3.0 wrote:
To me, it comes across as Wendy thinking that she has to actively introduce the Wavedancers, but instead of finding a way to do it naturally, or letting them be named over time, she devoted unnecessary dialog and panels to it. Sure, she could have spent that time showing us Sunstream and Brill interacting in a way that makes their romance more believable, but then we wouldn't know who all these background, basically speechless characters were. Oh, well.

Yeah, it was all rather convenient that Brill waited a while before showing Sunstream all the tribe, so that we could get introductions, romantic banter confirming Sunstream and Brill have been astral-dating for a little while AND a Recognition all in one night!
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