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 The Elfquest Show Episode 21

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sun girl

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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:48 pm

@Redhead Ember wrote:
But we don't really know if there was any way to save the elf who died on her way to the Palace. It might seem like a case of just fly pods out to get everybody who wants to answer The Call, but that's the thing; Wants to answer! There are several of even the established characters who've chosen not to answer The Call.
I think Sunstream simply knows where every elf is, not whether or not they'd want to answer The Call, and I don't think anybody is actually able to answer it, in the sense of sending back to Sunstream. Sure, Sunstream and Skywise could fly pods out to everyone and ask them if they'd want to go to the Palace, but what if there are some who really don't want to be found? Those Tree-Elves sure don't look like they'd appreciate if a shiny thing suddenly appeared in the midst! Worse; what if there are some who - like Cutter - rejects the Bigger Truth so greatly that going for them in a pod would kill them? Would be kinda bad if Sunstream and Skywise went to get a Group of elves and:

"Hello! We've come to WHOOOOOOOOOOOOPS!"

How about put Sunstream in a pod, let him fly around sending his "Call", those who want a ride can answer him and he can pick them up, those who don't can either not reply or tell him to leave them alone. Seems easy to me.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:49 pm

@Davrille wrote:
Ironic -- I gave Stargazer feedback about her post and got "I shared it because I *thought* people would have a sense of humour" because it wasn't the kind of feedback she wanted.

Not really ironic... Stargazer gave you feedback about your feedback.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:03 pm

@dayvrille- you got that response from Stargazer and we got what seemed like a temper tantrum from Richard Pini-- and then he shut the forum down. And that didn't get a positive reponse either. And so on.

You can call for a more civil discourse-- that's making a legit point. Anytime you publish something-- on a forum or other social media-- on video-- on the prints page-- you are opening he door to receiving reactions. It's just part of the deal.

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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:32 pm

@Davrille wrote:
@Lunakat wrote:

So what does it mean to say 'They have a right to tell their story their way?'

You said:  "That doesn't make us exempt from feedback." Ironic -- I gave Stargazer feedback about her post and got "I shared it because I *thought* people would have a sense of humour" because it wasn't the kind of feedback she wanted.







And then you got feedback YOU didn't like. Quid pro quo. I simply shared a silly joke my daughter made, and got my head bitten off for it - what reaction did you expect? Other members either found it amusing or ignored it. it was you who felt the need to go on the attack.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:10 pm

@sun girl wrote:
@Davrille wrote:
Ironic -- I gave Stargazer feedback about her post and got "I shared it because I *thought* people would have a sense of humour" because it wasn't the kind of feedback she wanted.

Not really ironic... Stargazer gave you feedback about your feedback.

Oh, very ironic, actually, given who that was directed at: Lunakat's "no one's immune to feedback" and Stargazer's passive-aggressive "Jeez, don't you have a sense of humor?!" comment.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:13 pm

@Lunakat wrote:
@dayvrille- you got that response from Stargazer and we got what seemed like a temper tantrum from Richard Pini-- and then he shut the forum down. And that didn't get a positive reponse either. And so on.

I remember that comment, and I remember people saying here "Yeah, that was too personal."

I'll restate what I've said before about insulting people on their front porches: you should expect to get tossed off them.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:17 pm

@Stargazer wrote:


And then you got feedback YOU didn't like. Quid pro quo. I simply shared a silly joke my daughter made, and got my head bitten off for it - what reaction did you expect?

To be honest? Nothing better.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:39 pm

Guys?
WTH just happened here? What started out as the kind of discussion I expect to find here, just turned into... IDK what the hell this is, to be honest. Can we all just take a step back and breathe? And WHO THE CHUFFING HECK IS GLOOMBERRY?
But back to the thing. Myself and other admins have read the entirety of this thread a couple of times through and are at a total loss to see where the tension that is obviously sitting here now started from. The flash point must have been so subtle that we all missed it?

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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:07 pm

What's a Gloomberry?

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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:08 pm

Gloomberry was an old forum member who wrote cute stories.

I don't think I said anything terribly insulting to Richard.

It's okay, Nibblet- we are just having a discussion. We're allowed to disagree here.

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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:10 pm

EDIT: (Gloomberry is) A new old member on the original Scroll of Colors - Stargazer's daughter. Smile

... and I remember a lost(?) funny story about gloomberries ... XD

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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:13 pm

In my honest opinion-- his argument made no sense. He seemed just unable to handle being contradicted. I was really surprised he didn't express himself better than that.

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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:28 pm

I personally think, and thought at the time, that he jumped on the notion that he had been personally insulted because he didn't have an adequate response to the actual argument we were having.  In fact, that morning, I got online to delete that particular aspect of that comment-- not because I thought it was horribly offensive-- but because I suspected it was the only thing he would react to if I left it in. But he'd already done exactly what I'd expected-- so it was too late. I was disappointed. Not because he shut the forum down or had a fit about things-- but because I thought he would manage to structure an argument better.

My only regret is that that conversation affected the rest of you. If I had it to do again, I would have refrained-- but only for that reason.

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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:40 pm

@Redhead Ember wrote:
@sun girl wrote:
Exactly, Redhead Ember. Any way to save them... like picking them up in a pod before they get killed on their way to the Palace after we deliberately summoned them to it. Which is why it feels like a kind of moral code the elves (not just Cutter) used to observe has been abandoned. Because Timmain has become extremely shady and possibly a liar. Argument comes full circle, boom Smile

But we don't really know if there was any way to save the elf who died on her way to the Palace. It might seem like a case of just fly pods out to get everybody who wants to answer The Call, but that's the thing; Wants to answer! There are several of even the established characters who've chosen not to answer The Call.
I think Sunstream simply knows where every elf is, not whether or not they'd want to answer The Call, and I don't think anybody is actually able to answer it, in the sense of sending back to Sunstream. Sure, Sunstream and Skywise could fly pods out to everyone and ask them if they'd want to go to the Palace, but what if there are some who really don't want to be found? Those Tree-Elves sure don't look like they'd appreciate if a shiny thing suddenly appeared in the midst! Worse; what if there are some who - like Cutter - rejects the Bigger Truth so greatly that going for them in a pod would kill them? Would be kinda bad if Sunstream and Skywise went to get a Group of elves and:

"Hello! We've come to WHOOOOOOOOOOOOPS!"

At the end of the Shards War, there were some elves, who didn't want to get picked up (Sunstream's friends). They could do the exact same thing again. It'd even have the boon of relieving the "I don't want to answer" elves of that annoying humming. Heck, Sunstream could check if they are moving, and thereby decide, if some elves actually want to come to the palace. (Maybe he is less WiFi and more GPS)

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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:03 pm

Thanks for answering my question, guys.


And yeah, I always saw Sunstream more as GPS and less WiFi... heh.
I'm still stuck on the concept though of how much training that boy had in order to pick up on such few elves. I mean so very few NEW elves who actually WANT to show up. So far it just feels like a plot hole, the whole 'He's the link' bit, because I've never seen it that way. It's Cutter that's the link. He's always been the link. Cutter's like the foldout map and Sunstream is GPS. Everything the GPS system picks up on, the map already sort of knows about because it's been around a lot longer.

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sun girl

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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:26 am

Maybe Sunstream's training and gifts wouldn't be going so much to waste if Timmain would allow him to actually go out and find elves. But she has decreed that any other elves out there have to come find them instead. He'd at least have a shot at giving Cutter a run for his money if he was allowed to do anything more proactive than be a sentient radio transmitter.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:59 am

The odd thing to me is that he already linked to all of the elves. Thats where the line came from: when Timmain replaced Orolin and started speaking through Suntop, even Winnowil half a contenant away in Blue Mountain heard the whole thing, it looked like, and this seemed to be credited to Suntop's ability... BEFORE he had gone through any training. Seems to me that this would have been a sign to the Elves of the world "we have the Palace back, head on over!" (Of course, this then ended up being a bad idea, as the Trolls took it back over, then it moved, and then jumped 10k years in time... still, Rayak didnt seem too worried about any "far off" Elves in his Quest to save the Palace from crashing in the first place (that would have erased them)... nothing but questions....

(Sorry if I misread or got a detail wrong, feel free to correct me)
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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:11 am

I just don't see how one elf, out of at least 20+ who answered The Call dying is an indication that nobody cares about the "No elf must die." thing anymore. Besides, as I've already said; we don't know what happened to her. We don't know if there was any way to keep her from dying.

As for the whole Timmain ate Go-Backs thing; No, it doesn't really mean anything, in fact I can easily imagine that some of them would actually find it rather cool. Not at the moment a bunch of hungry wolves jumped at them, but afterwards, when their spirits had made it to the Palace; "Hey! Our sacrifice helped keep the last High One alive!" Pretty sure it beats getting eaten by trolls!


@Embala wrote:
EDIT: (Gloomberryx is) A new old member on the original Scroll of Colors - Stargazer's daughter.

... and I remember a lost(?) funny story about gloomberries ... XD

No! I don't believe it! There's no way Stargazer is old enough to have a daughter who's active here!
She's like... in her 20es... right?
Right?

I guess not...
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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:38 am

@Redhead Ember wrote:



@Embala wrote:
EDIT: (Gloomberryx is) A new old member on the original Scroll of Colors - Stargazer's daughter.

... and I remember a lost(?) funny story about gloomberries ... XD

No! I don't believe it! There's no way Stargazer is old enough to have a daughter who's active here!
She's like... in her 20es... right?
Right?

I guess not,...

Lol (blushes) you better believe it... My daughter is in her 20s. And my eldest son is 30 next year..
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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:58 am

@Redhead Ember wrote:
I just don't see how one elf, out of at least 20+ who answered The Call dying is an indication that nobody cares about the "No elf must die." thing anymore.

Okay, it's not that I think this one elf dying means nobody cares about anyone dying anymore. It was just very weird to hear it brushed off so casually. I guess I fixate on this moment because it really pulled me out of any immersion in the story at that point. On an in-world level, it felt so out of character for what I thought I knew about the elves (kamicrazy Go-Backs aside, they tend to hold life as very precious because of their history of struggle as a species to survive). And then as far as plotcraft goes, it's just so anticlimactic. There had been a large amount of build-up to Sunstream's Call - not only in Final Quest but during the entire series of Elfquest he has been foreshadowed to have a great destiny in adulthood as the psychic link among his people - and the big result is Dre-Ahn-rhymes-with-crayon, the dead elf's spirit, and one comatose couple. And the latter three haven't even gotten names much less story or character. What was the point of building the Call up so hard if you're just gonna handwave "oh and some other folks got here too after terrible hardships, no time to hear about that now, back to the Cutter Show!"

@Redhead Ember wrote:
Besides, as I've already said; we don't know what happened to her. We don't know if there was any way to keep her from dying.

And from everything I can infer, nobody in the Palace knew if there was any way to keep her from dying either, because they never bothered to look for her. They knew people would probably die trying to answer the Call because Timmain basically said so, and they chose to not try to help. That, also, feels really weird to me.

I'm not trying to be contradictory, I see your point and it's valid, it's not that I think you're wrong. But I don't think I'm wrong either.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:03 am

But I don't think her death is being brushed off. It's just Reef trying to look at the bright side of things. Yes! She died, it's sad, but she made it.

Also... you're forgetting the Go-Backs. They answered The Call as well. So did Aurek, not that he had much of a choice, what with the Palace landing practically on top of him. You could even argue that Rayek, Ekuar, (and Winnowill) answered as well.

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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:24 pm

Okay. I'm not forgetting the Go-Backs or Aurek or Rayek or Winnowill. I do in fact remember that. If you think them showing up invalidates the point I was trying to make, that's cool, consider it invalidated.

Edit: Sorry. I don't wanna be a sourpuss. I'm very happy to agree to disagree. I'm just trying to explain that this particular incident bothers me, and why it does. Not trying to convert anybody. Nor be converted.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:05 pm

How many elves are there out there? To be honest, so far we've seen an extremely small number, population wise, through out the entire history of the comics. Not enough, afaik, to sustain a species, even given the long lifespan attributed to "immortal" elves. I mean, there could be more, and, given the behaviour of the Sun Folk, Go Backs, and Wolfriders, mentally healthy elves seem to want to connect to one another.

Could it be that the small number of elves who've shown up are an appropriate percentage given their population numbers?
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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:16 pm

Of course it's sad that she died! Thing is; there was probably no way to keep her from dying. No, I don't think it would've been simply a matter of flying around in pods, picking everyone - who wants to - up. For starters; flying around in pods would probably attract a lot of potentially hostile humans! If they need to ask first they can't just zoom right in, pick people up, and leave. They'd need to hover around for a bit.

And even if there had been some way to save her, sometimes - in the EQ World as well as the real World - people just die, and no amount of if only... will ever change that.
It's entirely possible that when she arrived, as a spirit, she told everybody to not be too upset over her death.


@sun girl wrote:
Okay. I'm not forgetting the Go-Backs or Aurek or Rayek or Winnowill. I do in fact remember that. If you think them showing up invalidates the point I was trying to make, that's cool, consider it invalidated.

By this time I'm not even sure what point you were/is trying to make.
Is your point that there aren't enough elves answering The Call?
Or is your point that the death of the unknown female is taken too casually?


@sun girl wrote:
Edit: Sorry. I don't wanna be a sourpuss. I'm very happy to agree to disagree. I'm just trying to explain that this particular incident bothers me, and why it does. Not trying to convert anybody. Nor be converted.

You're right. This isn't even really about the podcast anymore, is it?
Honestly, the only reason I made that Timmain ate Go-Backs comment was because Dave and Ryan sounded so funny when discussing it.

Anyway; I don't believe for one second that they were just about the stop when they had those technical issues! They'd probably have continued for half a day otherwise!








But at least they remembered the Orgy!
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PostSubject: Re: The Elfquest Show Episode 21   Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:41 pm

I think Timmain's refusal to Skywise was explained by his remark that he would "make it easy for them." You aren't supposed to make things easy if you want someone to value them or simplify a difficult and complex decision. Presumably the elves who showed up against all odds would be like the Wolfriders, Gliders and the Go Backs-- folks who really wanted to be there and were willing to sacrifice for it.

I'm still surprised by only five people showing up though. Because that invite went out to everyone. Is this everyone?

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