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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:25 pm

@Multi-Facets wrote:
Maybe Rayek is continuing to make bad choices due to years of sleep deprivation.

HA! Entirely likely.

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Startear

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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:01 am

That's actually very interesting. Before we learned about how the Chosen 8 learned dream-visiting, I assumed the line in Siege; "she never sleeps" was meant literally. But like, Aroree tried to restrict her sleeping, and we never got aclear answer on how much sleep does elves need? And does the Wolfriders need more sleep than their immortal cousins?

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Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:18 am

@Startear wrote:
Hmm, another bad moment? Nightfall trying to teach Ember swordfighting. More specifically, when she told an exhausted Ember that a troll wouldn't care less. Don't get me wrong, it was a good lesson for Ember. But Nightfall said it in the same vein that Ember shouldn't use a troll sword at all, her muscles are young and all that.

At the end of the day she was right, it really wasn't a wise choice from Ember to insist on using a sword.
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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:30 pm

Why would elves sleep if they didn't need to?

Why would anyone?

@Ember-- yes, I totally agree. Ember was trying to do something that she wasn't physically capable of-- and everyone was humoring her and begging her to go a different route. The Troll swords were just heavy, I guess-- and she was too young. Maybe if there had been some trolls around, they could have forged her a smaller sword designed for someone her size to practice with.

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wingthing

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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:08 pm

@Lunakat wrote:
Why would elves sleep if they didn't need to?

Why would anyone?

Because dreams are awesome??!?!
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manga

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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:18 pm

@Lunakat wrote:
Why would elves sleep if they didn't need to?

Why would anyone?

Because how else do you get that warm, fuzzy "waking up in my lifemate's arms" moment in the morning? No to mention snuggle-naps with babies. Or even just the warm, cozy moments by yourself of not having to be doing or thinking anything.

And I feel I should point out that you'd also have to have an eco-friendly source of 24-hour light for several of those hours not to be too boring not to sleep through.  (Like maybe a crystal palace powered by dead people?)
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:58 am

@manga wrote:
@Lunakat wrote:
Why would elves sleep if they didn't need to?

Why would anyone?

Because how else do you get that warm, fuzzy "waking up in my lifemate's arms" moment in the morning?  

Sex?

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Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:49 am

Right, this is maybe a bit of a borderline thing.
In OQ14, when the Wolfriders were fighting the Chosen Eight and Tyldak in the dining hall, Treestump referred to Tyldak as Nest Robber.
Sure, I get that he was frustrated about the whole Recognition thing, and was going into papa wolf mode, but it's not like Tyldak had any choice in the matter either. He hadn't exactly taken her away from the Wolfriders - specifically Treestump and Scouter - and insisted that from now on she would have to be his Pretty Mate and never again leave Blue Mountain.
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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:47 pm

The Gliders did, however, kidnap her... so I kind of think it's not that inappropriate.

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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:13 pm

The Gliders kidnapped (almost) all of the Wolfriders, and it wasn't just Tyldak doing the kidnapping.
Unless you're saying that the Gliders were Nest Robbers for kidnapping Treestump. Though I guess he was just a child compared to them.
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:19 pm

Well- yeah. Of course they did. Tyldak was a jerk at that point. Of course Treestump was referring to Tyldak and Dewshine. But I don't blame him. From his pov- this guy (and his friends) kidnapped and enslaved all of them-- and was now biologically compelled to copulate with his daughter against her will. That sucks. It's not like Tyldak was even nice to her back then. He was elitist. So what's wrong with calling him a nestrobber under those circumstances?

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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:33 pm

The fact that Tyldak didn't want to either.
Not long before Treestump had been lamenting the fact that neither of the two had a say in the matter, yet here he was, assigning blame.
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:39 pm

The problem with this thread is that a lot of these are divorced from context.

"Treestump hurt Tyldak's poor feelings!"

Tyldak kidnapped and enslaved almost all of Treestump's family, but k.

"Cutter was going to kill Rayek!"

Rayek had, over the span of the past few days, blasted the Go Backs and literally dropped a house on his ex-girlfriend, and right at that time was threatening to genocide an entire species, but k.

"Ember made poor choices! She's evil!"

She was a teenager, thrust into a leadership role that she was unprepared for, given that only months ago she was still playing with toys, working on the fly with all the information she had available to her, but k.
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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:47 pm

@kathleen3.0 wrote:
dropped a house on his ex-girlfriend

lol

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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:00 pm

@Kathleen-- yes

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manga

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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:19 pm

Too bad Kahvi didn't have any magic shoes to take.  Wink

And I think you're mis-remembering the nature of the most recent Rayek War.  Cutter didn't enter into it, it was Leetah's inability to be honest with Rayek and that whole back-and-forth situation that had the keyboards smoking.  Smile

Kathleen wrote:
The problem with this thread is that a lot of these are divorced from context.

This brings up a whole philosophical discussion about  right actions and context.  Certain actions (like Treestump's grumble) may be understandable but not necessarily right.  For example, Cutter kidnapped Leetah.  Recognition did not give him any rights over her but he just scooped her up and took off.  An understandable mistake - but still wrong for many different reasons.  (Including the fact that it was guaranteed to piss Leetah off - not the best kind of introduction.)
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:20 pm

Like I said with the one regarding Treestump and Tyldak; it was borderline. Treestump had several reasons to be mad at Tyldak, yet he chose the one Tyldak actually had no control over.
As for Tyldak not treating Dewshine well; I suppose he didn't, at first. However, after the Lree. I can't hurt you. moment that began to change. Immediately afterwards he defended Dewshine against Winnowill twice. (Since that scene happened before the fight in the Dining Hall I'd kinda like to know what would have happened if Dewshine had been present during the fight.) Then Dewshine was actually able to knock some sense - or rather, independent thinking - into Tyldak. Finally, after they had answered the call of Recognition, Dewshine was able to get Tyldak to do as she asked him, simply by using the argument for me.
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:25 pm

LOL, yeah, and right after he stands up for Dewshine, he goes on and kidnaps a five year old. Totally the guy you want contributing to your grandkid's DNA. Then he helps kidnap Cutter and Leetah and their kids in order to lead the rest of the Wolfriders into a death trap.

I've got a solution for that unwanted recognition. Cut Tyldak's head off, problem solved.

Actually Manga, I just didn't want to bring that up again. But if you wanna go, ya know.
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:27 pm

I never took Dewshine's treatment by Tyldak as anything but part of the collective damage done by the Gliders. Let's be honest - Tyldak was as brainwashed as the other gliders, no better. If anything, he was one of Winnowill's pets especially due to her shaping wings for him, something that made him somehow feel eternally beholden to her. As to Dewshine, he did try to protect her from Winnowill in his own pathetic way, which obviously was limited and none too effective due to him being as brainwashed as all the other Gliders.
When she said to him, Who are you, Tyldak, what thoughts are your own, and which are Winnowill's, that seemed to sink in slightly. Treestump was just being all collectively pissed off and grumpy, and for good reason. The only one who reacted well in the whole recognition cluster*** was Scouter, of all 'people'. He handled it beautifully, and that's one of my 'Good Moments From Least Favorite Elves' insights.

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manga

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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:30 pm

@kathleen3.0 wrote:

Actually Manga, I just didn't want to bring that up again. But if you wanna go, ya know.

Oh heck no.  I tried to redirect it several times but it  didn't take.  It's done for now; leave it. I just don't remember anyone saying anything about Cutter decking Rayek - I was kind of pleased and amused that in all the kerfuffle Cutter didn't really get entered into it this time.


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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:31 pm

Good lord, Kathleen, you just sound so goddamn pissed off.

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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:43 pm

She sounds sensible to me.

I agree, so far, with Kathleen and Zadzi

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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:22 pm

@manga wrote:


This brings up a whole philosophical discussion about  right actions and context.  Certain actions (like Treestump's grumble) may be understandable but not necessarily right.  For example, Cutter kidnapped Leetah.  Recognition did not give him any rights over her but he just scooped her up and took off.  An understandable mistake - but still wrong for many different reasons.  (Including the fact that it was guaranteed to piss Leetah off - not the best kind of introduction.)

I think the point is that-- actions are simply actions. The question of right or wrong is entirely dependent on context.

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manga

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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:03 pm

The question of right and wrong depends on principle, not context.
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PostSubject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters   Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:53 pm

What do you mean by principle?

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