Bad Moments from Favourite Characters

Posts : 499 Join date : 2015-03-26 Age : 33

Vaeri wrote:: anyway my extra two cents. favorite character: Moonshade! least favorite moment...her gotdanged attitude during Shard Wars when she was traveling with Ember's group. "oh i'll go with her and be her elder!" then we get" high ones damnit cub, LISTEN TO ME ONLY! what? you want to make your own decisions i don't agree with? HOW DARE YOU"

and that spiel about "we don't have time for an untried chief!" which i thank Nightfall for rebutting sensibly! it was just all...bitchy and whiny and tantrums, and i loved Moonshade best when she was cool as brightmetal with a sharp sense of humor. not to mention she looked kinda ugly at times in that art style, ugh >.< wtf Moonshade, what happened to your gorgeous dark brown curly locks??T_T

Hehe, actually that is one of favorite arcs of "old" Moonshade. Art style aside... where I agree. She was worried at the time, worried about Strongbow who was fighting a war without her at his side. She was also upset with how in her mind, Ember was not respecting the way, nor her elders wisdom.Wherein she did have a point, Ember was trying too hard to lead as Cutter. People aren't nice when they feel unappreciated and carry a lot of worries.

That being said, I kind of balked at her; "no Wolfrider was hurt by a little hunger," or along those lines. Umn, Moonshade? It's been damn long since anyone in the tribe had a point where they were starving.

___________________________________________________
Bad Moments from Favourite Characters - Page 9 Ba_a_f10

Thanks to Embala for the lovely banner! The quote belongs to Scooter.

Subject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:34 am

When did that happen? The only time I can think of when Ember's tribe suffered from hunger was after Moonshade had "come around".

___________________________________________________
"When you do what you love best, you shine where you love."

Come play the Who Am I game! Twisted Evil

Posts : 499 Join date : 2015-03-26 Age : 33

The last time I knew definite that the tribe starved was in Bearclaw's time. In Wolfrider. Or in Journey to Sorrow's End, though the lack of water was the more pressing issue. Which was why Moonshade's comment seemed so off.

___________________________________________________
Bad Moments from Favourite Characters - Page 9 Ba_a_f10

Thanks to Embala for the lovely banner! The quote belongs to Scooter.

Subject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:36 pm

That was one of my favorite Moonshade arcs too! It was like we got to see Moonshade being alone and being all PMSed constantly because she didn't know how to handle it, so she just dumped her angst on Ember. I was annoyed with her but I found it interesting. Really, Moonshade didn't know how to be without her mate, didn't know if he or any of the other tribe mates would die, didn't know when she would see him next, and was going off with a little chief-in-trianing. Good times for the most conservative, 'rooted' wolfrider in the whole tribe.

___________________________________________________
Thank you for the beautiful banner, Embala cheers

Bad Moments from Favourite Characters - Page 9 Ba_zad10

Posts : 411 Join date : 2015-03-26

It's also when we begin to see Moonshade coming to the conclusion that maybe the way DOESNT have all the answers, and start to see her looking for other paths. It was very well written, natural and organic, and it was done a real disservice when it was dropped, and suddenly picked up as, "K, well, it's been real, but see yas. It's off to the stars for me, lol" in FQ.

Subject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:58 pm

Redhead Ember wrote:: Well I'd still say there were subtle hints that they were a couple as far back as in the Madcoil Flashback. When they were heading out for that fateful hunt the two of them were walking together, not right next to each other being all lovey-dovey, but still together with a sort of look between them. Besides, when you think about it, they're the only ones in that flash back who could be Nightfall's parents, and when you compare it to HY5 there is no other "couple" who could potentially have recognized, and then died in the time between then and Madcoil's attack.

Wendy chose them because she had already drawn them waking together in that flashback scene. They look like two people having a conversation-- that's all. And yea, they are the only couple in that scene that could have worked because everyone else was already paired up. But hats not a subtle sign. That's just changing her mind and making it fit. In the written stories, Nightfall's mother had a different name. She was specifically named-- and she wasn't Brownberry. Wendy probably didn't want to give Nightfall the tragic backstory of having her parents die-- and/or didn't want to have to work that into the story of Wolfrider.

Quote :: The two of them not acting like a couple in those BoTC stories could be easily explained by saying it was before they recognized. Must take place pretty far back in time if Longbranch was still Longreach.

No, it can't, because Nightfall was alive in those stories.

Quote :: in the comics nothing whatsoever had been mentioned about who Nightfall's parents were before Wolfrider. Making it not a retcon but a reveal. Maybe a reveal to Wendy and Richard too, but still not a retcon, because it didn't change already established facts. Nobody named Amber has been seen, mentioned, or even alluded to, in the comics.

Right-- it was in the prose short story collection.

---

Quote :: As for bad moments; how come nobody has mentioned Kimo's not-so-bright decision to change during the Final Quest Special, indirectly causing Ikopek's death? Sure, he needed to warn them about the potential attack from the humans, but it's not like seeing him change made them any less distrustful.

Yeah! That whole business was poorly thought out!

Quote :: Or what about Cutter's decision to bring Shuna along to the Wavedancers' cove in Discovery? It might have been somewhat easier for them to reason with Surge if he hadn't spotted Shuna and thus - in his mind - been proved right about the danger of the "Landers".

A phenomenally bad move!

___________________________________________________
afro

Posts : 411 Join date : 2015-03-26

Iirc that story was by Richard, too. So, even if they eventually settled on Brownberry and Longbranch as Nightfall's parents, they obviously had Amber in mind, they just eventually dropped her. Also, in that story Cutter and Nightfall were born much closer together, I think a difference of a matter of months, so that was obviously one of those things they changed. If you write a story over a number of decades, things will change.

Tbh, I honestly wish they'd gone the "Amber" route. I can imagine they decided on the name because of Nightfall's eyes, which she might have gotten from her mother.

Subject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:38 pm

Also- Foxfur was younger than Skywise. I guess they decided against at that because they would have had to fabricate, then kill off FoxFur's family by the time of Madcoil-- maybe too much disruption in the flow of the story and/or too many new characters to draw.

___________________________________________________
afro

Posts : 411 Join date : 2015-03-26

There was also a scene where Longbranch has a long conversation with a character who's strongly implied to be Nightfall. He never acts particularly fatherly towards her or anything.

Posts : 1336 Join date : 2015-03-31 Age : 33

was foxfur younger? i could have sworn she was older...it would have explained Skywise's tendancy towards older women XD i may be misremembering it, but wasn't there a scene from wolfrider or something, where we see a young skywise being given a "shh" gesture from a teenager Foxfur because he's glaring hatefully at humans? or am i replacing someone with the image of Foxfur?

also i will grant Moonshade had a lot of angst going on cause of what was happening, but it just...blah, left a less than pleasant taste in my mouth and just felt whiny and grah.

EDIT: aha! i knew i wasn't imagining it! i found the panel in Wolfrider! Page 68, where a seemingly fully developed Foxfur is shushing what seems to be a still wiry thin young Skywise. not to mention did a little digging backwards, and found what seems to be a vague Foxfur behind what seems to be Shale and Eyes High and Pike on Page 66 and a decent shot of her on Page 50 when Crescent was killed, long long before Skywise.

Posts : 411 Join date : 2015-03-26

we were talking about the differences between the Blood Of Ten Chiefs short story anthology, and the later Wolfrider comics, actually

Subject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:15 am

This is why continuity checks are so important.

___________________________________________________
“Stay drunk on writing so reality doesn’t destroy you.” - Ray Bradbury.

Posts : 625 Join date : 2015-04-25 Location : Shanghai

Vaeri wrote:: was foxfur younger? i could have sworn she was older...it would have explained Skywise's tendancy towards older women XD

Aren't Dewshine and Nightfall the only younger females? Hooking up with elder women is his only choice, kinda.

I never read the anthologies, but I always had the impression, that the tribe used to be rather big, until madcoil. And then it never fully recovered.

___________________________________________________
It's a dolphin!

Subject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:35 pm

Miss Gillespie wrote:

Vaeri wrote:: was foxfur younger? i could have sworn she was older...it would have explained Skywise's tendancy towards older women XD

Aren't Dewshine and Nightfall the only younger females? Hooking up with elder women is his only choice, kinda.

I guess you are right-- that's always been his only option-- until Newstar "grew up."

Quote :: I never read the anthologies, but I always had the impression, that the tribe used to be rather big, until madcoil. And then it never fully recovered.

They lost half their crew- right? The anthologies (and Bearclaw's remarks about how "short and sharp" a Wolfrider's life is) suggested that there were maybe a few more elves that died some other way than via Madcoil. Because Richard Pini wrote those interstitial stories... I just concluded that they revised their concept of the tribe's history to write "Wolfrider"-- basically simplified it.

___________________________________________________
afro

Subject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:02 pm

So... You don't think Redlance and Scouter would have shared?

As for the other Wolfriders:
We know how Crescent, Shale, Eyes-High, and Rillfisher died.
Other named ones - whose relations we (partly) know - to have died during Bearclaw's time are Brightwater and Trueflight, so did their respective lifemates probably.
Then there are Redlance's parents, Rainsong's and Pike's mother(s), Clearbrook's daughter...
+ a whole heap of other parents, who're probably related to others in some way.

___________________________________________________
"When you do what you love best, you shine where you love."

Come play the Who Am I game! Twisted Evil

Posts : 1336 Join date : 2015-03-31 Age : 33

i'm only in the process of reading the novels....i read 1 and 2 and have yet to read 3 cause lazy and REDWALL! but yeah it does seem up until before Madcoil, the tribe was...pretty big.

Subject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:48 pm

Redhead Ember wrote:: So... You don't think Redlance and Scouter would have shared?

I think Nightfall and Dewshine were babies.

___________________________________________________
afro

Posts : 411 Join date : 2015-03-26

Vaeri wrote:: i'm only in the process of reading the novels....i read 1 and 2 and have yet to read 3 cause lazy and REDWALL! but yeah it does seem up until before Madcoil, the tribe was...pretty big.

I count less than twenty individuals during the last few decades of Bearclaw's reign, minus Eyes High, Shale, and Crescent. Honestly, if Madcoil had never happened, and barring some miracle, the tribe was getting pretty close to genetic extinction, if not true extinction. Fertility low, long pregnancies, pretty cute, the Wolfriders were basically giant pandas.

In the past the tribe was more numerous, but the humans and Madcoil were pretty close to being the nails on the coffin for their little experiment. The fire was really the best thing that ever happened to them.

Posts : 1336 Join date : 2015-03-31 Age : 33

....cue the Pandariders...XD you do have a point, by time the Holt burned down...there wasn't much genetic diversity. i mean really poor Cutter, who would he have lifemated with if the Holt had remained? a 3 mating with Nightfall/Redlance? would he have hooked up with an older Newstar? Newstar would have been the only single female in a decade or two, though there is a possibility Chitter/Freetouch may have shown up earlier, maybe?

...Cutter and Newstar, that's a crack pairing idea right there...

Subject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:31 pm

Vaeri wrote:: ...Cutter and Newstar, that's a crack pairing idea right there...

...
*Adopts crack pairing as legit ship*

On another, likely pointless note.
It's Clearbrook's hair. I feel she gets to decide what she does with it.

Redhead Ember wrote:: Or what about Cutter's decision to bring Shuna along to the Wavedancers' cove in Discovery? It might have been somewhat easier for them to reason with Surge if he hadn't spotted Shuna and thus - in his mind - been proved right about the danger of the "Landers".

Wasn't he also warned about how they feel about humans? And he basically went 'bah, their fears don't matter!'?

___________________________________________________
Bad Moments from Favourite Characters - Page 9 Tumblr_oizli2hnXr1sda8vao1_1280

'We're all broken, in different ways, in varying degrees.'

Subject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:48 pm

A threeway with Newstar and Skywise. Plausible.

___________________________________________________
afro

Posts : 499 Join date : 2015-03-26 Age : 33

Shadowpath wrote:: On another, likely pointless note.
It's Clearbrook's hair. I feel she gets to decide what she does with it.

I totally agree.

Shadowpath wrote:

Redhead Ember wrote:: Or what about Cutter's decision to bring Shuna along to the Wavedancers' cove in Discovery? It might have been somewhat easier for them to reason with Surge if he hadn't spotted Shuna and thus - in his mind - been proved right about the danger of the "Landers".

Wasn't he also warned about how they feel about humans? And he basically went 'bah, their fears don't matter!'?

Pretty much yeah. I mean, when you get word that a tribe is panicking bcause you want to visit, and that they are deathly afraid of landers, which is 100 % justified... Come on Cutter. Not cool.

___________________________________________________
Bad Moments from Favourite Characters - Page 9 Ba_a_f10

Thanks to Embala for the lovely banner! The quote belongs to Scooter.

Subject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:55 pm

It certainly was pretty stupid, to have Shuna peaking out right at that critical moment. It just read plot device. Discovery is pretty much my least favorite issue.

Speaking of plot device, that's really how I view most of FQ now... just one plot device after another - from Moonshade's random, weird decision to go live in the palace (!!we need to shake up the readers and show them not even the most traditional couple is safe from change!!), the Cutter/Timmain thing (!!!we need to keep shaking up the readers!!!), the continuing, annoying presence of mustache-twirling humans (!!!They represent bigotry!!!), and the Rayek/Winnowill thing (!!!We don't know what the hell to do with them so just make them both prisoners in some form or another!!!). I miss the seamlessness of the stories and issues before... sigh.

Also, very disturbed about Newstar/Cutter thing. I can't imagine Cutter with that delicate little flower sniffer.

___________________________________________________
Thank you for the beautiful banner, Embala cheers

Posts : 625 Join date : 2015-04-25 Location : Shanghai

Zadzi wrote:: Also, very disturbed about Newstar/Cutter thing. I can't imagine Cutter with that delicate little flower sniffer.

I think Newstar would have turned out differently, had she grown up in the woods. Maybe some not that fierce hunter, who is just forced to stick with the way.

___________________________________________________
It's a dolphin!

Subject: Re: Bad Moments from Favourite Characters Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:06 pm

Zadzi wrote:: Speaking of plot device, that's really how I view most of FQ now... just one plot device after another - from Moonshade's random, weird decision to go live in the palace (!!we need to shake up the readers and show them not even the most traditional couple is safe from change!!)

Might just be me, but I actually like Moonshade's...erh, turn around.
It's nice to see her doing something completely divorced from from Strongbow.
I never really got the notion she was her own character in the other series. She was just too in-line with Strongbow for me to see anything resembling a real separate personality.

But yeah, I agree with you on fq being one plot device after another. Worst thing is they're really cheap/easy.
'Oh look humans what are they going to do, oh they're evil bastards. Surprising.'

The Cutter/Timmain thing is...weird. Yeah you can make a story out of it, but at what cost?!

___________________________________________________
Bad Moments from Favourite Characters - Page 9 Tumblr_oizli2hnXr1sda8vao1_1280

'We're all broken, in different ways, in varying degrees.'

» Favourite Funny Moment
» Your favorite heartwarming moments.
» Hilarious moments in ElfQuest
» Character Design by Prayer
» Isn't this...? How fictional characters would look like as elves