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 Did Winnowill know? (probably spoilers)

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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Did Winnowill know? (probably spoilers)   Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:14 pm

I had the impression at the time that she was telling Rayek what he desperately wanted to hear. His initial sending to her was in the form of a boast and a challenge-- at least as he intended it. But she read it differently: 'power and need and both in his sending'-- or some such-- and that, where there is need there is the ability to control-- fulfill one need then create others and fulfil that. So Rayek's need, at that point, was to meet and be accepted by an equal-- to meet someone he could relate to, be attracted to, respect, learn from, be challenged by, and be affirmed by. Winnowil gave him all that in spades. But it backfired on her-- because she lost control.

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Miss Gillespie

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PostSubject: Re: Did Winnowill know? (probably spoilers)   Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:08 pm

I never saw it as recognition either. Prior to meeting her, Rayek talked about Winnowill as some 'poor creature', s.o. with ideas in the right direction but poorly executed. He thought he was stronger and more powerful then her. And when he flies into the throne-room, he's blasted by her presence.

But even if it was recognition... Winnowill didn't kill Two-Edge, even if it was the 'sensible thing to do' (from a villain POV). He embodies her shame, her misstep, still, she does not kill him. Why? Because he has her blood.

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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Did Winnowill know? (probably spoilers)   Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:17 pm

It would've been more merciful to kill him. Splitting his mind, messing with his head, and imprisoning him to a state of constant madness doesn't particularly seem much better.

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Shadowpath

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PostSubject: Re: Did Winnowill know? (probably spoilers)   Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:57 pm

I always thought it was because she knew he'd go through his entire life, countless decades, as a miserable being who belonged nowhere,had no one, who's thoughts would be broken and twisted, forever pained, and killing him would basically be like getting rid of a piece of art.
Because he's basically her masterpiece.
And she gets off on causing pain. As long as he's alive she has physical reminder.
Really, it's arrogance on her part.
'That's never going to come back and bite me hard in the ass, nope.'

@Lunakat wrote:
I had the impression at the time that she was telling Rayek what he desperately wanted to hear. His initial sending to her was in the form of a boast and a challenge-- at least as he intended it. But she read it differently: 'power and need and both in his sending'-- or some such-- and that, where there is need there is the ability to control-- fulfill one need then create others and fulfil that. So Rayek's need, at that point, was to meet and be accepted by an equal-- to meet someone he could relate to, be attracted to, respect, learn from, be challenged by, and be affirmed by. Winnowil gave him all that in spades. But it backfired on her-- because she lost control.
Same here.

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manga

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PostSubject: Re: Did Winnowill know? (probably spoilers)   Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:26 pm

Winnowill split Two-Edge's mind because she didn't want him telling Voll about what she had been doing under the mountain, which makes even more sense in the light of her story as told in "Rogue's Curse." She'd flat out refused to have children with him and then went and had a baby with a troll. Voll would have been devastated and she idolized him. She couldn't have born the way he would have looked at her.

In any case, Two-Edge was definitely a deliberate conception. She wanted to do it - I don't know if it was her curiosity or part of her "find a need and fulfill it... and so on... and so on..." strategy. It could have been both, I suppose.

I don't think it's arrogance or a desire to cause pain that caused her to split his mind. This was early in her downward spiral. I think it was just panic and bad decision. If she'd done it For The Evils, it would not be the "great shame erupting like a red sore" in the healing in "Siege."
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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Did Winnowill know? (probably spoilers)   Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:58 am

I agree Manga

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PCoquelin

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PostSubject: Re: Did Winnowill know? (probably spoilers)   Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:20 pm

To me, it's no doubt it's true.

I think Wendy likes the very idea of some soul having to share two different forms...

However, like Rayek discovered...

...even if it's the same soul, it's not the same mind, nor the same body, nor the same aims.

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manga

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PostSubject: Re: Did Winnowill know? (probably spoilers)   Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:35 pm

Which makes not a bit of sense to me. I can, just barely, by the idea of one soul in two bodies. But if they are not of the same heart and mind, then in what way are they one soul?
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PostSubject: Re: Did Winnowill know? (probably spoilers)   Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:22 am

@manga wrote:
Which makes not a bit of sense to me. I can, just barely, by the idea of one soul in two bodies. But if they are not of the same heart and mind, then in what way are they one soul?

Ditto

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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Did Winnowill know? (probably spoilers)   Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:28 am

Then it's just the New Age version of Multiple Personality Disorder.

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PostSubject: Re: Did Winnowill know? (probably spoilers)   Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:52 am

@PCoquelin wrote:
To me, it's no doubt it's true.

I think Wendy likes the very idea of some soul having to share two different forms...

However, like Rayek discovered...

...even if it's the same soul, it's not the same mind, nor the same body, nor the same aims.

Now it is... Winnowill
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PostSubject: Re: Did Winnowill know? (probably spoilers)   Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:24 pm

What a twist would it be if she had split her soul too.

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