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 Final Quest #15 - Delayed.

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Embala

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:14 pm

@KR Wordgazer wrote:
"Ca va bien, merci!" Twisted Evil

Laughing

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namuhna

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:41 am

So I finally got to read it all, and beside my previous complaints about Strongbow and Moonshade-drama I've decided cannot stand Andre. I HATE gary stu-special chosen magic boys who show up in the last minute being special taking away attention from the main plot and characters I'm actually interested in. And yeah he totally reminds me of early Teir who I hated for the exact same reasons XD (sorry to those who like them!).

And also I've got to say this issue has some of the ugliest coloring I've ever seen!
The bits with Rayek and Ekuar were painful to look at! I still stand by my comment about how strangely appealing I found the background palace in Moonshades sending was, but the rest of the issue was just a real artistic failure. Black and white would be better. I'm actually kinda saddened by that little realization, I mean I've noticed the copy-pasting getting out of hand, but I've kinda been a lil bit in denial about just how bad the art is really getting but this was just kinda the last drop, I can't ignore it anymore, it's actually starting to distract me from the story.

But trying to stay invested... Speculation about Savah: I had to go back to the comics and look at the issue where Cutter is dying from the squirrel (because I'm suspecting that was his actual first encounter with the smelly ones) and I realized I'd misremembered that Savah appeared in his dying visions THERE, but she did appear in his other dying vision where she really doesn't belong at all. Why on earth did cutters vision of Bearclaw, of all people, turn into Savah? "Perhaps this world has changed us beyond all hope of reunion" she says, and at the time she'd been "going out" looking for other tribes, maybe she found the smelly ones a very long time ago and saw how different they were and... I have no idea! And then Cutter asks "What were we once that we're so divided now?" Is he talking about elves... or himself?? I'm really enjoying that she's mentioned that way and giving me more to think about, it's so surprising, and hints at big mysteries and I very much appreciate mysteries and suprises about characters I'm already fond of ^_^


I'm still intrigued by the story, but right now I really wish they would fix the art.
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Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:55 am

Maybe the "Smelly Ones" (new name for them?) just reacted that way because they were all "Huh! What's a Savah?"
For all we know they don't even have a concept of individual names.
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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:41 pm

Nah, otherwise they'd be that way to EVERY name spoken, not just Savah's. Their reaction though was to it being sung. Why did Dr Dre sing her name?

And they're compost elves, this is my name for them. It's actually quite fitting, I feel, and suits them perfectly. We've gone through Scary and Smelly, like the naming of fairytale dwarves or something. This is much more suitable, imo.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:52 pm

I hope she found them by going out-- and not because they are her relatives.

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namuhna

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:37 pm

"Compost elves" is brilliant and I am using that from now on.
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wingthing

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:42 am

You know that old standby gag in Mel Brooks films were they all pull out a copy of the script (or the VHS in the case of Spaceballs) to find out what to do next? I feel that's what all the elves are doing off-page nowadays.
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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:55 am

Ha! I remember that, Wingthing. They fast forwarded to the present and got all weirded out. I have that damn scene memorized.

*waves hands in front of screen and watches it, mesmerized* : "WHAT THE HELL AM I LOOKING AT?!"
"You're looking at now, sir. Everything you see now is happening now."
"What happened to then?"
"We missed it."
*Confused* "When?"
"Just now."
*looking aghast and frightened* "When will then...be now?"
"SOON."

Although most of FQ now reminds me of that scene where they sort of stop at the sped-up chipmunk voiceover scene where Rick Moranes (sp?) crashes headfirst into the panel after they come out of lightening speed, and he's watching the footage, going, "No no, skip that part, skip that part. In fact, never play this part again."

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PCoquelin

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:00 am

What if those fungoid elves were in fact elves who died... but were saved because of other such fungoid elves transforming them in time?...

They probably remember Savah.


I would have preferred tree elves...


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Miscellaneous

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:28 am

Elves don't have to die, that's the problem, with their spirits staying around. They could go on in new bodies. But I'm not sure what's left in those compost elves, how much conscience and awareness. And of course, that would make the wolfriders life a little pointless, the way would not mean anything anymore.

What we've seen of the compost elves remind me of the nightmares of my childhood: souless zombie people who feed on others and can't bear those who are not a part of their group...
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namuhna

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:19 am

If they were dead elves they would be equally likely to remember any of the other elves as they would Savah... I mean they could be, I'm kinda thinking they're going the route of reincarnation in various forms anyway, but that still doesn't answer why they reacted to Savah specifically. Or even why Andre sang about her!
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Wisp

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:15 am

I'm adopting "Andre" and "compost elves" from here on out.  Now that I see it, I wouldn't be surprised if Dre-Ahn (or at least his name) is a tribute to a real person in Wendy's life, possibly named "Andre."  In any event, he's definitely a Gary Stu-type.  His powers keep morphing and getting "cooler", all the established characters are fascinated by him/in awe of him, he's handsome/mysterious....I never saw it before, but now that's he's been pointed out as Teir 2.0, that's all I can see.  (Incidentally, if you completely substituted him for Teir and had him recognize Ember, that would basically be Skyfire and Dreamsinger all over again--we've seen that Ember has an affinity for Skyfire, and Dreamsinger had the whole neuroatypical/mysterious outsider/song-magic thing going on.  Maybe Teir should have just stayed at the bottom of that river...kidding, kidding Teir fans.)

The latest EQ Show podcast suggested that the compost elves were eating the dead skin cells off the naked wolfriders and Andre.  That actually makes sense, but if that's the case, it would have been great to have that explained in the pages of the comic.  As is, it still looks like an awkward one-sided orgy.

Two tidbits buried in the comments on the fan facebook page.  First, Wendy confirmed that Rayek and Winnowill do not share a soul a la Tam/Timmain.  She says that Winnowill is powerful enough to lie in sending, which explains the whole "one soul" language.  This doesn't surprise me, since both WP and RP have said elsewhere that Tam/Timmain are a unique phenomenon.  

Also, Wendy confirmed that the New Blood issues featuring Timmain, Haken, Gibra, et al. were meant to be symbolic/allegorical.  So Rayek and/or Winnowill aren't the "descendants of Haken" or anything like that.  Haken, as depicted in those issues, did not exist within the EQ universe.  

At this point, I don't think anything depicted by an artist other than Wendy should be considered canon, even if Richard had some hand in the story.  This explains what's happened to Tier, or with the Wavedancers, Dodia, etc.  This isn't to say that Wendy won't incorporate elements she likes and finds useful, but I don't think she feels at all bound by other people's work in her universe.  I don't trust the future depicted in Future Quest any more, especially since I've gotten the feeling that Wendy isn't completely enamored with the way Jink was handled.

I think the compost elves are alive.  They need to eat to survive.  The Wolfriders remark that elves will do anything to stay alive--including turning into smelly living compost piles.  I also hope that they aren't "the rootless ones," since that would be too neat.  I like the idea that Savah made contact with them during her astral explorations.
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namuhna

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:45 am

Oh thank car that Rayek and Winnowill isn't the same soul!
I'm used to be a fan of Rayek, and am currently EXTEREMELY disappointed that he's acting like a friendzoned bro. The "same soul" would kinda explain him being like that, maybe even absolve him a lil bit, even if he just believes it is so (in an alien weird way that doesn't translate to the real world at all). But I really don't think I can accept this shared soul business as a revelation for more than one single incident. It's too weird. I like the Tammain-twist right now, but don't push it!

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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:56 pm

@ Wisp - It's interesting, when Namuhna called him Andre, I remembered how sometime ago on the FB page, Richard had mentioned that the name Dre-ahn was an anagram (was it an anagram? I don't remember if that's the exact term. At any rate, it's not an exact anagram) of Andre. It was in reference to Andre the Giant, because of how huge he was in comparison to the other elves.

And I'm of the mind that Wendy has kind of just picked and chose what she considered canon and along the way, in regards to stories where she's not the artist. It makes for a lot of inconsistencies. I wouldn't mind it entirely but it kind of feels at times like characters such as Teir become whitewashed (literally) along the way. As it stands now though, FQ lately has been extremely unconcerned with individual characters except for Cutter and occasionally the soap opera of Strongbow/Moonshade.

As for Futurequest, I couldn't quite get into it, so I don't care about Jink at all.

I also thought I read somewhere on the old scrolls that New Blood story with Haken and the newcomers was indeed symbolic. But i'm pretty sure it was another poster making that comment, and not Wendy or Richard. It would make sense because I always felt the first comers story was a bit too neat in terms of ancestry / psychical traits. I am, however, disappointed also because it was pretty much the only story glimpse we really had into the first comer's arrival.

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Wisp

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:24 pm

@Zadzi Yeah, I didn't love Futurequest either, but I have assumed that certain things depicted in the series would come to pass, like Strongbow ("the archer") would end up in the Palace. I'd still guess that's likely, but if something else happened to him now, I wouldn't be shocked.

I totally forgot about the Andre the giant comment.

The way I took it, the Hidden Years story still still captures the "historical" moment of the firstcomers accurately, but there wasn't literally a treeshaper who looked like Redlance and a stargazer who dressed like Skywise. There probably is still "truth" in the depiction of how the firstcomers reacted to life on the WoTM, their differing philosophies of survival.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:09 pm

@Wisp wrote:
At this point, I don't think anything depicted by an artist other than Wendy should be considered canon, even if Richard had some hand in the story.

I can't say I liked all of those stories, but dang, that's a huge chunk of Elfquest right there that doesn't really count anymore.

@Zadzi wrote:
I also thought I read somewhere on the old scrolls that New Blood story with Haken and the newcomers was indeed symbolic.

It felt to me like Wendy sort of "legitimized" those characters when she drew them for the centre-spread series, though. And don't their character bios appear in the Big Gatherum? They're definitely on the website, along with that image. It's all a little confusing.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:16 pm

The Pinis are picking and choosing from their OWN canon at this point, let alone other people's. Sloppy, ridiculous story-telling. But I haven't seen a single critical review commenting on this. Oh well.
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Embala

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:07 pm

@Wisp wrote:
Also, Wendy confirmed that the New Blood issues featuring Timmain, Haken, Gibra, et al. were meant to be symbolic/allegorical.  So Rayek and/or Winnowill aren't the "descendants of Haken" or anything like that.  Haken, as depicted in those issues, did not exist within the EQ universe.  
Not a surprise. It makes sense that this "creation story" told to the Wolfriders and other far descendants was a metaphor ... something that could be told in short and was understandable to "simple minds". Similar to the various human histories of creation....

Leaves me wonder why WP waited so long to come up with this. For once THIS is an absolutely logical turn.


Nevertheless ... for me those "charactes" will stay alive ... it's easier. ^^

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:12 pm

@Embala wrote:
@Wisp wrote:
Also, Wendy confirmed that the New Blood issues featuring Timmain, Haken, Gibra, et al. were meant to be symbolic/allegorical.  So Rayek and/or Winnowill aren't the "descendants of Haken" or anything like that.  Haken, as depicted in those issues, did not exist within the EQ universe.  
Not a surprise. It makes sense that his "creation story" told to the Wolfriders and other far descendants was a metaphor ... something that could be told in short and was understandable to "simple minds".
Considering that there were no Wolfriders present at the scene and the other participants were Venka, his own daughter, and his ancient mentor Ekuar, I guess those "simple minds" are we, the readers Rolling Eyes

Dr. Dre annoys me so much, every time he shows up I want to slap him *ugh*. Does he have more than one facial expression? And his pony, does Wendy seriously look at this equine and think "yes, that's the way a horse looks like"?

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Embala

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:13 pm

For High Ones / spirits all the Abode-bound elves would be simple minds ... ^^

... and probably the readers, too. *shrug* It was a short story that possibly needs fast and easy characterization. Not an epic story about the battle for survival on a hostile alien planet but a simplified picture like the one wie get in the bible or other creation stories.
That's how I've understood the it from the beginning - as an allegory. And the character design was a fast and easy way to make clear what the "actors" are supposed to represent. No more, no less.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:15 pm

Leave the pony alone!!! It's a living eighties MLP.
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Embala

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:45 pm

@PCoquelin wrote:
I would have preferred tree elves...


That's an awesome photo, PC! Surprised
I wonder who's responsible for this little wonder ... coincidence, a talented photoshopper or a true human treeshaper? Anyway - it's a great symbolic picture - and very elfwuesty with the four-fingered tree-elf!

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:46 pm

@Wisp wrote:
His powers keep morphing and getting "cooler"

I don't think he was even described as having "power" before he begun his whole singing to calm everyone thing. Just... somewhat weird communication habbits.

@Wisp wrote:
As is, it still looks like an awkward one-sided orgy.

Who says it was one-sided? Skywise Wink

@Wisp wrote:
Also, Wendy confirmed that the New Blood issues featuring Timmain, Haken, Gibra, et al. were meant to be symbolic/allegorical.

Huh? What New Blood issues featured those? You mean Hidden Years?

@Wisp wrote:
At this point, I don't think anything depicted by an artist other than Wendy should be considered canon, even if Richard had some hand in the story. This explains what's happened to Tier, or with the Wavedancers, Dodia, etc.

1: Teir is most definitely canon. So is his past, nothing changed about that. When he told Ember about his family in HY he was talking about his adoptive family, the only family he'd ever known.

2: What happened with the Wavedancers is also canon, they even neatly described the weird disparancy (a word I cannot spell!) of the Wavedancers stories talking place centuries after Shards and then Brill going on to recognize Sunstream just a few years after Shards, by having Ardan be a nutter.

3: What happened to Dodia is that she was picked up by the Palace, as depicted at the end of Shards. So it was the Fire-Eyes comic that messed up and retconned things, now they're back in the prober order.

@kathleen3.0 wrote:
The Pinis are picking and choosing from their OWN canon at this point, let alone other people's. Sloppy, ridiculous story-telling. But I haven't seen a single critical review commenting on this. Oh well.

If anything they seem to be very busy making sure that everything from NB which could even tangentially be connected to the plot of Final Quest is made "official" canon.

Ahnshen?
Yup, still doing his clothes making thing. And his skills have definitely improved when it comes to purple dresses for Moonshade.

Dart recognizing Serrin and having Bowki?
Yup, happened too. And now he's actually begun talking about it.

Dart's relationship with Shushen?
Happened too. And they were actually lifemates!

Everything in the Forevergreen?

That too.
The only, very minor, thing that got retconned away is Dart's relationship with Kimo.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:38 am

@Redhead Ember wrote:
The only, very minor, thing that got retconned away is Dart's relationship with Kimo.

Minor? Shocked Dart's whole "beginning to recover from Shushen's death and learn to love again" arc was erased so that Wendy could re-appropriate it for Mender. Kimo's whole "maturing from starry eyed fanboy to soulmate and equal" arc was neutered so that Wendy could claim they were just "good friends."

I weep on Kimo's behalf.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:43 am

I weep too. It's bullshit. We can all say we read things into stories, but if there's all that blathering on about ORGANIC blah blah, that relationship was like certified organic, the sweetest type of growth. I take refuge in fan fic instead lol

WTF happened to where Ahnshen's not been shown. It's so weird, the whole thing with the former hots for moonshade and tanning thing, then she shows up in a dress looking like the one he imagined her in which she said felt so wrong, ages ago. It's weird to not say anything about just a minor turned major thing.
I'm really tired of the speculative story lines to where people are just filling in their own opinion of what happened. And then being like, no that TOTALLY happened or TOTALLY didn't. lol.

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