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 Final Quest #15 - Delayed.

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Bluetree

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:46 am

Zadzi wrote:

I'm really tired of the speculative story lines to where people are just filling in their own opinion of what happened. And then being like, no that TOTALLY happened or TOTALLY didn't. lol.

Yeah, and don't guess wrong, or Elfmom will squawk and throw cryptic elliptical hints at you about what you "should" be perceiving...
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:27 am

wingthing wrote:
Redhead Ember wrote:
The only, very minor, thing that got retconned away is Dart's relationship with Kimo.

Minor? Shocked Dart's whole "beginning to recover from Shushen's death and learn to love again" arc was erased so that Wendy could re-appropriate it for Mender. Kimo's whole "maturing from starry eyed fanboy to soulmate and equal" arc was neutered so that Wendy could claim they were just "good friends."

I weep on Kimo's behalf.


Yes, it's a shame. For me, Dart and Kimo were the best part of the Forevergreen story. They were so sweet together and I really liked Kimo. I liked the silly/humorous side of him that we don't get to see in the Wendy stories. The whole thing with Mender is nice, too, but it comes across a bit rushed to me and so far I don't really see the point of spending storytime on them. (That's not a complaint. Just wondering.)
I don't know if it's me, but I feel like the Barry Blair Dart and the Wendy Dart have different personalities.

I like speculative storylines. I like filling in my own thing. Razz
Ahnshen should get some screentime. Maybe I can include him in my comics at some point... Twisted Evil

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Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:04 am

wingthing wrote:
Redhead Ember wrote:
The only, very minor, thing that got retconned away is Dart's relationship with Kimo.

Minor? Shocked Dart's whole "beginning to recover from Shushen's death and learn to love again" arc was erased so that Wendy could re-appropriate it for Mender. Kimo's whole "maturing from starry eyed fanboy to soulmate and equal" arc was neutered so that Wendy could claim they were just "good friends."

I weep on Kimo's behalf.


I'm not sure I ever felt the "They're lovemates!" connection between Kimo and Dart. I always felt as if they were a sort of... 'low key' soulbrothers; bit like Cutter and Skywise - who aren't actually lovemates either - but without the involuntary exchange of soulnames thing. If anything I found it kinda weird that Dart could be so devastated by Shushen's death, only to so relatively shortly afterwards seemingly having shared his soulname with Kimo.

Dart learning to love again, and Kimo becoming his equal could still have happened without them being a couple. Kimo could simply have been there for Dart as a friend, an equal friend. Someone who knew about Dart's past and therefore also knew that the best thing to do was to lend an ear, and reach out a hand, and sometimes have a nice roll in the furs.
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sun girl

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:30 am

Redhead Ember wrote:
Dart learning to love again, and Kimo becoming his equal could still have happened without them being a couple. Kimo could simply have been there for Dart as a friend, an equal friend. Someone who knew about Dart's past and therefore also knew that the best thing to do was to lend an ear, and reach out a hand, and sometimes have a nice roll in the furs.

So we shouldn't feel robbed of that relationship because Kimo still got to be friends with benefits? I disagree. Especially when practically every adult elf on Abode seems to be friends with benefits with every other adult elf they know. It still feels like the first significantly explored gay relationship between more than peripheral characters in EQ got retconned out of existence for the sake of a pale retread.
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Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:55 am

As I said; you can read it many ways. They fact that they clearly were close during the Forevergreen arch, and still are close as far I'm concerned, doesn't have to mean that they ever were a romantic couple.
They have a close bond, but that of friends. That's not degrading their relationship, it's just making it different. There's nothing "just" about being friends.



("Just" as in "only". Not "just" as in "fair"...)
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kathleen3.0

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:58 am

You know what? It was erasure. The only way it could be worse would be if they had erased him in favour of his seldom seen uncle fishface and his relationship with a previously unknown, but very pretty, Sun Villager, took away his entire character arc and used him to project their Randian individualist philosophy.
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Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:17 am

No, honestly, tell me. How does They're good friends. seemingly equal There was never any kind of bond between them.?
Couldn't they have been that close as friends?
Is a bond really only worth anything if it's romantic?
Is it really a matter of "If they weren't romantically involved relationship never happened."?

To me insisting that if the relationship between Kimo and Dart isn't romantic, then it has been totally retconned away and doesn't matter, is - if anything - degrading to the bond they do have. Is Kimo's personal development really only valid if he was romantically involved with Dart?

So, maybe I worded myself badly in my earlier post.
The relationship between Kimo and Dart - whatever it is - hasn't been retconned away, simply the little detail of Kimo seemingly knowing Dart's soulname.
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kathleen3.0

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:37 am

I'm not fighting with you right now, because it isn't even interesting. You're just saying the same thing you did before and I'm too tired to try to explain the problems inherent in that storyline.

I'm picking a fight with Wingthing and Sungirl and I'll get back to you when we're done.
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Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:01 am

Okay, maybe I worded myself badly.
I never meant to imply that any of you were wrong for having seen Kimo and Dart as being a romantic item, I just meant that for me it maybe wasn't so clear, so for me having them be good friends didn't seem so much like a major retcon in anyway.
Peace?

Here's something I've noticed about the issue in question. Take a look at Puffer during the Wavedancer scenes.
The little pip who just wanted to play with his - somewhat older? - friends, and got all upset when they wouldn't play with him, has matured into a young man who understands that The stars are worth the risk. and Moonmirror is in on it too. So, maybe the "stunted growth" the Wavedancers experienced, to the point were the Wavedancer pips were seen as 'younger' than Sunstream, despite being centuries his seniors, have finally disappeared.
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sun girl

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:52 pm

kathleen3.0 wrote:
I'm picking a fight with Wingthing and Sungirl and I'll get back to you when we're done.

Okay, what did we do?
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:03 pm

kathleen3.0 wrote:
You know what? It was erasure. The only way it could be worse would be if they had erased him in favour of his seldom seen uncle fishface and his relationship with a previously unknown, but very pretty, Sun Villager, took away his entire character arc and used him to project their Randian individualist philosophy.  

I'm calling you. Pistols at dawn, because I literally didn't sleep last night.
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wingthing

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:43 pm

Um... okay... I'm getting most of that... but who's been a puppet for Randian individualist philosophy now? Just wanna be clear whose honour I'm defending here.
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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:51 pm

I literally have no idea what kathleen is talking about scratch

Bluetree wrote:


Yeah, and don't guess wrong, or Elfmom will squawk and throw cryptic elliptical hints at you about what you "should" be perceiving...

rofl


As for the Dart/Kimo thing, I wasn't really that bothered by it actually until the Mender/Dart thing happened like out of nowhere. It just seemed so forced and contrived. I always liked Yun/Mender because they had a great chemistry and were hilarious together.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:29 pm

I thought that exchange they had when Kimo went with Shuna and Dart stayed behind was them breaking up because Dart couldn't commit or something.

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kathleen3.0

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:46 pm

wingthing wrote:
Um... okay... I'm getting most of that... but who's been a puppet for Randian individualist philosophy now? Just wanna be clear whose honour I'm defending here.

Sorry, that was more of an indictment of the theme of the series as a whole.
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wingthing

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:59 pm

Ah. Got it.

Pistols at dawn it is. Or... maybe midafternoon? I'm not much of a morning person.
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kathleen3.0

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:03 pm

No I have to take the kids to the zoo. Sunday I visit my grandmother. Maybe Monday?
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wingthing

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:17 pm

Ah, shoot. I'll be out of town by then. Guess we'll have to postpone the bloodfeud until September.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:18 pm

Okay okay.
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jaRf

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:26 am

Uh, I just received FQ 15 (forgot to preorder, so I am late). No time yet to actually read the whole thing - flipping through presented an occasional weirdness and everybody rolling in compost. Okay. Whatever.

Then I reached sharpdark highthing (of course I won't flip over Rayek) and... oh, well. One and a half pages maybe for the (formerly) most multifarious character. Repeating those "untils she loves me back" lines (this IS leaving his line of character), then gets a hammer thrown at his head and all that stuff.
Oh yes, and that in the light that they need to fend off an army of humans. Sure, not the safest place and Winnie might try again to set herself free by getting Rayek killed. Still not convinced I like any of that.

Looks more and more like retcon for Rogue's Curse. Sometimes even cheap retcon. Sad

I hope I'll finish my calendar art before any official person really throws my favourite character into the wastebin.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:44 am

PS: Dre-Ahn. Yes. Someone here wrote that Teir seems to fade in favor to him and something about a similar "vibe". Indeed, I got the same feeling. Don't really like that. (Dre-Ahn's okay and fine, but we don't need to bleach Teir out.)
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:23 am

Have Teir and Dr Dre ever been in the same scene?

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wingthing

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:23 pm

Teir took one look at Dr Dre and decided to hightail it back to Junsland.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:17 pm

They're in the big crowd scene during the Gathering of Chiefs.

Pike is teaching Dre-Ahn the wonders of dreamberries. Laughing Pike
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #15 - Delayed.   Sat Aug 20, 2016 6:34 pm

I don't think Tier ever gets overshadowed by Dre Ahn-- I think they just don't interact and their story lines don't yet overlap at all. The whole beginning of the Final Quest (following the preview) was about Teir and Ember and Teir's parentage and whatnot. Now it's about Cutter. I don't think Dre Ahn is even playing that big a role-- he's just some minor cipher in the background. The only reason we are paying attention to him is that he is new and has some singing ability. But otherwise-- he's not much to him.

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