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 The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))

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Soreyes

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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:46 pm

In the original EQ Haken is dead.... can't live long without a arm I guess

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Vaeri

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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:56 pm

please for the love of god tell me she's not retconning him out of the story or something...*face palms*

anyway onto more interesting discussion...hmmm Bonebat on the council and becoming a hunter...well grandson of Spar, i could see it! and Leetah using Arshel as her puppet so to speak...do i see a parallel between Angriff/Arshel and Leetah/Korik? are we perhaps going to have a couple fun snapping themes where the controlled decide they want to walk their own path..?*strokes chin*
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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:58 pm

I neither follow the Pini's on FB nor am I part of the FB group or the official page ... just found this post here

Wisp wrote:
Also, Wendy confirmed that the New Blood issues featuring Timmain, Haken, Gibra, et al. were meant to be symbolic/allegorical. So Rayek and/or Winnowill aren't the "descendants of Haken" or anything like that. Haken, as depicted in those issues, did not exist within the EQ universe.

Looks like Haken shares the fate of some other characters.

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wingthing

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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:32 pm

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

OMG... Haken is Keyser Soze!
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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:57 pm

In this one case, because I couldn't stand those stories, I'm going to say "good."

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Embala

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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:59 pm

wingthing wrote:
OMG... Haken is Keyser Soze!

rofl

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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:24 pm

ok but how....is haken symbolic but timmain a real person??? i???

whatever that's wild....i think i like leetah and arshel being lady/lord macbeth, leetah as lady macbeth would be kickass Very Happy

man tbh i just kinda want to see leetah being awesome XD she could be so cool! (also i want her to confront pool again sometime--that'd be ve-ry interesting)
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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:43 pm

Haken and all the rest of the were derivative characters. Those stories made no sense. Why would anyone in those circumstances make any of those choices? I hated those stories. As villains go, who needed a Rayek clone?

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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:29 am

I liked the fact of the stories, period, because they were an opportunity for context...but then I also found them rather smug and self-righteous, and very over-the-top in how preachy they were (WOLVES ARR TEH BESSSST). Also it was just like, oh look, another black-haired character who is evil, ho-hum. How subtle Rolling Eyes

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Kaza999

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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:40 am

aw man, i always loved those stories! (i did read them when i was like 13 tho so that might have had a little something to do with it lmao i very keenly remember loving the way all the high ones looked and not much else...)

im still just stuck on like...........timmain is a real character, as evidenced by the fact she exists and keeps sticking her nose in her grandkid's business, why would timmain be the only 'real' one and the others are all allegories or symbolic or whatever? timmain even had a lifemate! i mean he died but like........

i mean to be fair the small number of high ones seriously limits the elven gene pool but still--why would timmain (and possibly adya) be the only 'real' high ones? that...that doesn't make sense...

seriously tho i gotta re-read the new alternaverse stuff otherwise i can't catch up on all the oasis politics Razz since evertree self-destructed i'm just waiting for something nasty to happen in oasis (and maybe with the other elven kingdoms too? the evertree is a bit of nasty business, who knows what'll happen if that spreads)

oh hey, what's been going on with venka and her people lately? will any of this upheaval disturb the great holt? can't see that it won't honestly but i don't think we've seen venka and co. recently...
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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:02 am

I agre, Kaza999! I loved Wingthing's version of the story (Haken's retelling, specifically) in the Return To Blue Mountain installments. I prefer it because it fleshes out the story. In fact I also prefer it because it doesn't focus on the Wolfriders (who frankly can be a tiresome bunch actually, after a while lol).

I always btw wondered why it was always about Timmain ... I mean, I get it, the Wolfriders in EQ are the main ones we follow, and specifically Cutter...but I always sort of wondered, when they found other tribes, that we'd get more than just little blips. And there were never high ones of their own mentioned, which I always considered really weird. I get it, I really do, that the story was more about the wolfriders and Cutter, etc.. And it's supposedly been implied that the other high ones died out *because* they didn't adopt the mortality of this world, and thus didn't manage to adjust and died out. Yet Timmain is still a first immortal, her blood is just as ancient as those other ones. Did she just fare better because she shape changed? Because that seems to be the point. That she shape changed into a wolf and into anything mortal maybe kept her long-lived on this world, I don't know.
But then what about like the tree shapers? In fact, what about other shapers? Was Timmain the only shaper? It's just all so freakin' vague.

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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:19 am

I think Timmain was the only shapeshifter who retained that ability; virtually everyone else lost their powers or could only use a diluted form of them. It was a rare few who could use the full measure. And only the most useful -rockshaping, healing, and treeshaping among them- began to crop up in the younger generations in less powerful forms. But that's just my theory.

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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:31 am

It seems...well, SEEMED...like Haken could retain that ability (having power while on this world), but now I'm realizing it's all symbolic. It's kind of hard to tell with a symbolic tale though what is true specifically and what isn't, i.e., TImmain's shaping powers, and then Haken's ... lack of existence? Lack of power? I don't know. SOME high ones though must've lived and splintered, because from them sprang the sun folk and the wave dancers, and gliders. Unless it's the high ones' offsprings we're talking about. But then that's also assuming all those high ones also stayed together with Timmain before taking off. It's just very confusing. But it's ripe stuff for alternaverse.

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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:35 am

i actually always figured certain elves had strengths in some areas and not in others--some high ones have a talent for shapeshifting or healing, and even if they could all access all of their powers offworld, on the world of two moons they could only play to their strengths (hence why some elves in the modern day are born with some powers and some aren't)

the whole 'the high one story is an allegory' thing just............................smashes the continuity tho lmaoooo so i'm ignoring it (also it's gotta be literal in the alternaverse because haken and timmain are constantly sniping at each other so...)
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sun girl

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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:41 am

As far as the High Ones' story goes in the Alternaverse, everything that's been described actually happened and was not allegorical. The Circle of Nine were not the only survivors, of course, in our version. We've got Mura and her crew, and the Madcoil Five, and now the Navigator as well.
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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:48 am

yeah, that makes a whole lot more sense (seriously i'm still reeling from that 'oh haken is an allegory' thing like.......what even)
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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:50 am

I always liked to view that 2-parter as it appeared in the comics as total Timmain propaganda. History is written by the victors, truth from a certain point of view, etc. Because yeah, as impartial historical fact, that story made almost no sense. But the idea that it was all Timmain's attempt to either:

1) indoctrinate her followers with an easily digestible creation story
2) absolve herself of the crushing guilt for her own poor choices up to and following the crash.
3) make sure the name of "Haken from Accounting" will forever be reviled - serves you right for taking my parking spot, hahahaha!
4) all of the above.

that's pretty sophisticated as a concept, and could have SO easily fed into a whole arc in FQ about the nature of truth as Skywise and Moonshade and the others get better at reading the scroll and realize just how much Timmain has kept hidden from them. Way better than this TimTam fiasco.

Ah well... that's why we have the Alternaverse, where you can livestream Haken's version of events against Timmain's and decide which one makes more sense.

And as Sun Girl pointed out... that's not even bringing the Navigator into it...

But we will... never fear! Wink
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Vaeri

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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:54 am

i think whatever Wendy might be smoking, i need a little cause that shit obviously wacks out your MIND. :p

and ohhhh the Navigator! man, when do we deal with him again?? in the Naga arc?? i'd kinda forgotten about him but...omigooossh the deliciousness and the info he could deliver!!*salivates*
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Kaza999

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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:05 am

i get the feeling that should we get the navigator's story he'll be a teeeny bit ticked at both haken and timmain Wink (like i love 'em both but man..........they are.................a handful......)
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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:07 am

hey i'd take haken over timmain any day. XD *waves Red Snake flag*
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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:25 am

I'm not waving any red snake flag around even though I like them.... but I prefer Haken! I like his presence. It gives someone with a different vision, someone to even push against if you're not happy. That's what leaders do. But not in Timmain's case, because it's clear that no one has pushed on anything , really, and it makes it all quite dull.
Honestly, I prefer these Wingthing versions because they are more fleshed out. This shit with Haken being symbolic doesn't make me bat an eyelash. Great stories speak for themselves, and this alternaverse has spoken most clearly, loudly and eloquently. So I really do not give a damn about canon so much as I am annoyed at how much of a clusterf*** FQ and NOW EQ has become.

Truth: Timmain has always been incredibly self righteous with persistent PTSD in EQ, has been afforded that luxury of being queen High One because there were NO other perspectives. Bring in other perspectives, and hers starts to crumble. As it should, because there's really only so far you can go with that until you write yourself into a damn CORNER.

....Oh wait, that's exactly what's been happening (well, it's how it's reading. But I'm sure if the crew were here they'd correct my thoughts Razz

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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:18 am

I doubt Timmain is now supposed to be the only survivor of the crash, rather there have been probably several but we don't know of them (and ever will). Everything else would be really stupid*. Timmain and "male high one X" would have had to make a lot, a lot of children, who immediately scatter around the world and lose sight of each other.


*even by canon standards

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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:35 pm

Timmain can't have been the only survivor because her story is that she became a wolf to feed and protect her people.

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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:00 pm

Yes, exactly, I don't think it's implied that she's the only one so much as the only high one left alive (now)...yet we also don't really know anything about the other high ones at this point anymore. Nothing.

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PostSubject: Re: The EQ Alternaverse ((PART 2))   Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:13 pm

Aaaaaaand Kit is officially back in the flesh:

http://www.janesenese.com/swiftverse/rebirth.html
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