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 Final Quest #18

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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:43 am

I'm not sure empowerment has to do with how skinny or curvy your body looks.

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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:43 am

@Lunakat wrote:
I'm not sure empowerment has to do with how skinny or curvy your body looks.

It certainly doesn't. This isn't an aesthetic issue, it's a narrative issue and well beyond. Your character is a woman or a mother, you don't turn her in to a preteen in body. That's not aesthetic - we're talking about actual living (in this case) characters - taking away the body type which defines them as actual women is somewhat demeaning ... dismissing the silver scars of childbirth symbolically and of age which these characters had to be turned in to preteens... yeah, that matters. This is a visual medium. Any subtle nuance can be shifted and taken a number of ways and I do not like how two of the characters who supposedly had self esteem issues or independence issues are being portrayed as significantly younger to the point of being preadolescent. It's weird and creepy and jarring in terms of story. Narrative reliability does extent to visual medium in the case of graphic novels and comic books. Visual cues and the like are literally like landmarks in some cases. Something this significant is not something I can overlook. The character is nebulous and vague and ethereal to show some kind of spiritual new age 'evolvement'. I think it's dull and cliche. It's not 'evolved'.
You can't possibly write something you want others to see as 'deep' and then basically determine the kind of measuring stick they use as wrong or whatever. It's super crazy that Moonshade literally lost even the bone structure of her FACE along with the body type she had. I'm not talking about how GOOD she looks for god's sake. I am talking about the change she has which is based on something completely nebulous and how we're supposed to just go along with it even though the replacement of the structure of her character is weaker now than it was before (when she was supposedly soooo traditional and backwards).
The backbone and spine of the palace, of 'spirituality' in this case is really weak and vague and seems to suck the life out of characters. I cannot stand the palace in this story. It's been a consistent obstruction and get out of jail free card. And just freakin' BORING. It's boring for god's sake. I want the cool knowledge and magic but damn is everyone in there just acting really brainwashed and nonexistent and distant.

But then that's just me so oh well.

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Prism

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:48 pm

Actually, I agree with everything you've said Zadzi. Moonshade lost her personality right along with her looks. She's not even that empowered for Pete's Sake! That Palace has turned into one of the biggest MacGuffins in the story and I don't mean that's a good thing.
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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:50 pm

It's a deus ex machina-- which is why there are so many arbitrary "we can't do this or that" rules attached to it-- and why it creates a clunky plot. Because it's an instant cure all for any problems-- so they need excuses to not use it, or there's no story.

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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:02 am

It's clunky alright. I'm sorry if I sound a bit bitter, I think the new age-y stuff chaps my hide somewhat lol.

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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:19 am

I don't mind it-- I just wish the story flowed more naturally. It feels forced.

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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:23 am

@Lunakat wrote:
I don't mind it-- I just wish the story flowed more naturally. It feels forced.

Me too! I can't get over it! I really, really want to and can't lol

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Elwing

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:27 am

the troll quest thing seems rushed and out of the blue- but it's still better than all the oddly static palace scenes. I could really do without those...
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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:45 pm

I liked the troll quest best-- but I didn't understand why Cutter had to be so cryptic about it. That seemed really unnecessary.

Zadzi-- I think what you're rejecting isn't the new ageyness or any of the co tent of the story-- it's how the story is being told. The original quest was full of new agey messages-- but you didn't notice because it flowed so smoothly. The grace of the story just carried you along.

Some parts of final quest flow well-- but key chunks just don't. I think the problem is that they haven't figured out how to deal with the fact that the palace is the ultimate fixer for any problems. There's probably a way to incorporate it more naturally-- but for whatever reason, that hasn't been nailed down. So there all these contrivances instead to get around that-- so there can be a story with conflict. But that has created contradiction and just some awkwardness. And I think that's really what you don't like.

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Prism

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:07 pm

Original Quest was New Agey alright,but it was also raw. There was a real sense of danger,urgency and mystery that lasted all the way thru Hidden Years. That's been missing in Dreamtime,Recognition,Searcher and the Sword and definitely Final Quest. Not that there hasn't been good things to come from it like Freetouch and Korafay. Or the humans like Shukopek and his family or Tingeh,but then we also get Dre-Ahn  qnd the Borg elves known as the Rootless Ones. Which is why Final Quest feels like such a disappointment, Especially compared to Original Quest.


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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:48 am

@Lunakat, you're right. I think I had issues with some of the new age-y stuff for a while but there were other things going on to maybe distract me? Now, new age-y is front and center thematically in some ways. I don't know why it's scratching me so bad! It's like I need Benadryl to read or something LOL. I keep seeing the palace as the problem and not the solution. Storywise yeah I think there's a real problem with it - like, you have this really important hereditary relic and it's important to address in a story. But when you tell the story, it's coming off like the palace is a vat of bleach to the characters.
So yeah, I guess you're right, Lunakat, I am not rejecting the spirituality version so much as the story, but the story is so tied to the spirituality aspect and that part looks like , well, really diluted.
I always looked at the Sun folk as a hot steaming cup of like turkish tea or something lol. Anyone have turkish or middle eastern tea? It's really potent and then also has like a ton of sugar, so it's really sweet. The move into the palace and their potency felt lost when I read it. The sweetness is there but it's like hot sugar water now. In a fancy glass !
I am a little upset about how they just kind of gave up their culture- their choices were hard, mind you, I get it. But like, you have such a long time in this civilization cultivating a lot and really had something so solid. I always thought the sun folk had the strongest and most sophisticated culture out of all the tribes because they really went beyond mere survival or obsessive dependency of a collective memory, and just kind of did their own thing. But like seriously, the palace? Why? lol. It just seems like so weird. Aren't any of you missing the sun or something, I know it sounds weird but I want to hear about some disgruntled Sun villager who's like man, screw this, the palace is boring, I want to be a dirt digger again, it was kind of awesome LOL.

The Cutter thing with the trolls is good because of the subject but the action is weird, like because Cutter feels more like a male Timmain now and yes it was rushed. And yeah dude, just wtf with the cryptic thing. It's manufactured and artificial suspense. It's not cool. It's supposed to be the 'heart circle' so stop emotionally yanking everyone around -_-

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Miscellaneous

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:15 am

Quote :
I always looked at the Sun folk as a hot steaming cup of like turkish tea or something lol. Anyone have turkish or middle eastern tea? It's really potent and then also has like a ton of sugar, so it's really sweet. The move into the palace and their potency felt lost when I read it. The sweetness is there but it's like hot sugar water now. In a fancy glass !
XD As a tea drinker I wholeheartedly agree! What did the gliders taste? Something cold? The Go Backs, there's alcohol in it for sure. And the wolfriders rrmmmmerrrr.... Coffee? Hot chocolat?
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:38 am

No one likes the palace, that's a fact Smile ; as Luna pointed out, it's a "story-killer", they have this omnipotent device, but they can't use it... because reasons! "Because reasons" never makes for a compelling narrative.

I don't think there is a meta-idea behind this 'skinning down' of Moonshade (and Aroree). The 'High One' shape is supposed to be slender, ethereal, elegant (long haired, ugh). Have we ever seen any High Ones or Gliders or First Comers, who had broad faces? Winnowill is maybe the "high one shaped" elf with the most curvaceous shape and the broadest face, and she is also the least ethereal of them.

My biggest issue with the story so far is, that it's moves fast without moving at all (maybe we are in Wonderland?). Tensions are build up, resolved in a couple of pages and lead to nothing. There is so much meaningless moving from A to B (BTW, why is it not ok to pick up elves with the palace as destination, but it's ok to bring the rest of Ember's tribe to Cutter's place?)

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:55 am

Miss Gillespie that's exactly how I feel. Right now I feel like if there's tension built up I'm not excited because it'll probably be resolved in a few panels in the next issue anyway.
And I also agree there are things in FQ that seem to have no real reason, like Cutters secrecy during the troll quest or why they could not pick up wandering elves with the Palace (the lesson of pain crap). I feel like that is unnecessary and it could have resolved in a better way.
There are just so many things in FQ that keep me from feeling involved and excited. If I'd been a new reader I would have given up a long time ago.

I think there is no excuse for Moonshade to be so ugly in her Palace form. I think she could have easily kept her old looks while becoming more slender, and her hair is just ridiculous. I think Zadzi is right and the Palace is just Bleach to the elves.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:15 am

She looks ...odd. Like several different length hair extensions were added to her own.
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Prism

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:19 am

It's not how long curly hair looks. Actually looks like Wendy discovered a new tool in Photoshop and went hog wild.
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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:33 pm

It's called the clone stamp

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Outlier

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:18 pm

@Zadzi wrote:

I am a little upset about how they just kind of gave up their culture- their choices were hard, mind you, I get it. But like, you have such a long time in this civilization cultivating a lot and really had something so solid. I always thought the sun folk had the strongest and most sophisticated culture out of all the tribes because they really went beyond mere survival or obsessive dependency of a collective memory, and just kind of did their own thing. But like seriously, the palace? Why? lol. It just seems like so weird. Aren't any of you missing the sun or something, I know it sounds weird but I want to hear about some disgruntled Sun villager who's like man, screw this, the palace is boring, I want to be a dirt digger again, it was kind of awesome LOL.

That's a really interesting point. In the original quest we saw elves from Blue Mountain who decided they didn't want to be confined inside. And we're seeing the choice presented as something difficult for the Wolfriders, but the Sun villagers are just all for it. I guess we do see Ohler (or is it Ohler's brother?) choosing to be outside, but it'd be cool to see more of a community of palace-denying sunvillagers.

Thinking about it, it's kind of strange how clear-cut it is - sunvillagers inside, Go-Backs and Wavedancers out.

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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:45 pm

But isn't whatever culture exists inside the palace of their making? Considering that they are the inhabitants.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:33 pm

@Miscellaneous wrote:

XD As a tea drinker I wholeheartedly agree! What did the gliders taste? Something cold? The Go Backs, there's alcohol in it for sure. And the wolfriders rrmmmmerrrr.... Coffee? Hot chocolat?

Gliders= Earl Grey tea, left out overnight

Go-Backs= something with a lot of homemade vodka in it (or am I applying WoOM Russia too closely to their native climate?)

Wolfriders= Mexican hot cocoa, the way your saucy Tia Lupe used to make Wink
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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:45 pm

The go backs are Irish coffee

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:57 pm

^ Yesh! Twisted Evil
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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:54 pm

Go backs have fermented stag milk
Gliders like sake

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:12 am

@Bluetree wrote:

Gliders= Earl Grey tea, left out overnight

I once found a teapot that had been put away for a while with the dregs still in it - it was mouldy and rather unpleasant- that would be the gliders.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #18   Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:11 am

Ok, wait... WHEN did the new issue come out? I seem to have missed it!

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