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 Final Quest #19

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Outlier

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:04 pm

I'very been thinking about this, and I know there's people who would argue and say a lot happened in the final quest - we had Ember recognize, then be kidnapped. Vena got shot. Cutter found out about his connection to Timmain. Dart and Mendes commit as lifemates.

All those things happen, but they aren't exactly told as a story. It feels more like a laundry list. There are times when the Pinis seem to be holding tight to this idea of the hero's journey, but they're forgetting about the transformation of the hero. I don't get any feeling of how anybody has been changed by their experiences. There's got to be conflict, resolution, and growth.

And, yeah, maybe that's happening "off-camera", but then the story is not being told. Storytelling is about the journey, and bringing the reader with your characters, and that's where I think the final quest fails.

Cutter found out this fundamental piece of knowledge about his very being. Yeah, he freaks out for a while, but basically he just gets over it. So far everybody just gets over whatever's happened and moves on. I have no feel for why any of this is important, for the characters or for me.

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Outlier

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:44 pm

Here's a sum-up of the final quest:

Cutter and Timmain-
Timmain: You know, Cutter, you just like a mini-me. I mean, really. You are literally a little piece of me.
Cutter: AAAIII!
Leaves.
Comes Back.
Cutter: Timmain, I was a little freaked out by what you said. But then  my wolf died, I got licked by some trees, and I found your stupid old troll. So, we’re cool now.
Timmain: Was that so hard?


Strongbow and Moonshade-
Moonshade: Did you just see Ruffel get fried? I’m moving into the palace.
Strongbow: How could you leave me, you bitch!
Moonshade: Excuse me?
Strongbow: I’m sorry! I love you, come back!
Moonshade: I don’t know, I’m making so many new friends…
Strongbow: Know what? Screw you!


Dart and Mender-
Mender: Dart, hey! We should so hook up!
Dart: I don’t know. Things haven’t worked out so well before…
Mender: But this time it will be forever!
Dart: Uh…
Mender: Come on!
Dart: OK


Ember and Tier-
Ember: Recognition!
Tier: Yay!
Ember: It’s the Djun!
Tier: Shoot. Run!
Ember: You run. I’ll stay here.
Tier: What?!
Later…
Ember: That was intense! I got kidnapped…
Tier: I almost drowned…
Ember: I don’t think I want a baby.
Tier: What?...Yeah…OK


Rayek and Winnowill-
Rayek: Let me get this straight…if Winnowill gets healed, she’s stuck in this rock forever?
Thinks…
Rayek: Sound boring. I don’t think she’d be down with that. Call me when you have a better offer.


Venka and Two-Edge-
Venka: You and your contraptions! You know you almost got me killed? I am so tired of this shit!
Two-Edge: C’mon, baby. I love you!

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Last edited by Outlier on Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Miss Gillespie

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:27 pm

FiQu is a surreal piece of art where nothing happens and yet, events are condensed in a few panels.


That Moonshade-Strongbow horse is so dead, there aren't even bones left. BTW, I have this image of Sunstream heading out to fetch her and some voice in the air mumbles "I'm already here" and she materialises and sends Strongbow into a fit

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Embala

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:50 pm

*sees Strongbow faint like a Victorian age lady*

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Sifra

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:51 pm

rofl Poor Strongbow!

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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:17 pm

I think Final Quest is better if you read it all together in graphic novel form. Not enough happens issue to issue to feel as if the story is moving at less than a slow pace-- but it does come together and feel fuller when all put tog in print. Also-- this last book out (final quest 2), the colors work much better for the printed page. It's quite pretty, in fact. The first volume, the colors were often too dark for print, but in the second, they are quite nice. I hope the third follows suit. I'm reserving judgement until it all plays out.

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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:20 pm

I have to take it back. I just looked at it again. Sonny Strait does not know how to color. It' awful. There's no sense of value and contrast or any solid logic to his coloring. And it's so muddy half the time. I showed it to my boyfriend (also an artist-- he doesn't read Elfquest) for a second opinion, in case this was me being prejudiced. He said, and I quote "this person has no knowledge of color theory. He's just randomly picking colors- like 'this is a pretty color' and 'I like that' but he isn't using them in a smart way." And he also agreed "this art could be really striking if someone [was coloring it who] knew how to paint." So I showed him the Starblaze editions and he could immediately see the difference in how the color was applied.

I can see that Somny is trying to use color harmonies-- like yellow and purple or blue and orange... but he's so remedial at it. I just don't know why they couldn't find someone who understood color better.

And I bet you anything he's painting in RGB, not CMYK-- possibly on an u calibrated screen. Because he isn't taking into account the difference between print color and screen color. One is backlit and will always be brighter. There are more color variations in RGB as well-- but if you are going to print something, you have to use CMYK. Because That's the color range that can be reliably printed. And you have to consider values-- because subtle gradations won't show up in print half the time. Also the fuzzy photoshop shading is so remedial-- I can't even. I've never said that before-- but I literally just can't even.

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Last edited by Lunakat on Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:22 pm

Why can't I just get over this? I can't-- because it is such a disservice to the art. It's taking something that should be beautiful and making it ugly. Like-- flat out ug.

We all realize that the variation in the quality of the coloring over the various incarnations of Elfquest is the reason Darkhorse is doing black and white collections- right? Because the drawings are solid. That quality is consistent.

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Miss Gillespie

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:07 am

There are a lot of issues with the art (Copy Paste, the colours, the shading), but my main issue is the story.

The overall package is simply underwhelming.

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manga

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:43 pm

Remember Cutter saying that everyone left behind by Rayek in his plan to save the High Ones would be worse than dead?

Cutter isn't just a Wolfrider riding out his mortal coil to become "more himself than ever" (as Ember explained it to Lehrigen).

Cutter will be worse than dead. He will be subsumed into an alien entity. There's no way he won't be simply folded into the rest of Timmain's consciousness. Unless I guess if she willing lets him be in the forefront but then what's the point of her being his "higher" self?

Rayek honestly has the better fate... there's at least the possibility of the outcome he desires and he knows he chose it open-eyed.

Outlier wrote:
Rayek and Winnowill-

Rayek: Let me get this straight…if Winnowill gets healed, she’s stuck in this rock forever?

Thinks…

Rayek: Sound boring. I don’t think she’d be down with that. Call me when you have a better offer.

That's brilliant. I love it! Rayek Devil
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namuhna

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:24 pm

All this talk of fainting Strongbow is making me really eager for him to find out about Tammain.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:12 pm

manga wrote:

Cutter will be worse than dead.  He will be subsumed into an alien entity.  There's no way he won't be simply folded into the rest of Timmain's consciousness.

I don't yet get the Tammain dynamic. ^ This might happen, but what about all that swooning and the "*gasp*... ooh, the tearing away" histrionics? Perhaps they're not quite so intimately bound anymore...?

Oh, that's right. I keep forgetting: storytelling is out, meandering drama is in. But I'm sure it'll all be explained in a future "SHOCKING" issue that "you won't want to miss!!!" Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:41 pm

I just don't follow the story any more. I don't care about the characters, nothing makes sense any more and it's just depressing. Sometimes you get a few pages of art that provoke the good old days, and then you get pages like the ones that had Rayek in them- where you get a face cut and pasted on an awkward looking costume.The characters are not even recognizable any more. This comic is just plain awful.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:31 pm

manga wrote:

Cutter will be worse than dead. He will be subsumed into an alien entity. There's no way he won't be simply folded into the rest of Timmain's consciousness. Unless I guess if she willing lets him be in the forefront but then what's the point of her being his "higher" self?

Rayek honestly has the better fate... there's at least the possibility of the outcome he desires and he knows he chose it open-eyed.

Outlier wrote:
Rayek and Winnowill-




.

That's brilliant. I love it! Rayek Devil

Anyone see the movie Being John Malkovitch? The line "What happens when a man goes through his own portal?" goes through my head.
@manga - I thought of that when I read what you wrote. If you (or anyone) haven't seen the movie, it's very odd but I love it and it is pretty much perfect in terms of Cutter. That one scene where John Malkovitch finds out there are people out there paying $40 a pop for 15 mins to enter a portal (with a tiny door lol) directly leading to being in his head, and he's so appalled, he pushes to the front of that line and enters his own head .
Here's the scene, if anyone is interested. I dunno, I find it very amusing, and I now will always think of it when I think of the Tam/Timmain thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIpev8JXJHQ

Pretty much sums up my feelings when he crabs Cusack and goes: "I have been to the dark side, I have seen a world NO man should see!" Very Happy

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Evil Evie

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:05 am

*pops in to share weird middle of the night thought*

What if Timtam merged and that's how Jink came to be? The two parts of the soul are so different now they create a whole different character.

*leaves to go check her temperature.*

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Wed May 03, 2017 8:10 pm

Spoiler:
 
Exactly this. Goddamnit.
And on top of that, the art is too much clone tool and while some panels are gorgeous, sometimes the colours are just meh. Idk what happened but everything went downhill since Wendy started drawing digitally.

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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Wed May 03, 2017 9:27 pm

Yeah... I think that's the thing. There are a lot of events that occur-- but so far, they don't feel as if they are leading up to a coherent narrative. In the Original Quest, everything felt as if it was pushing toward a singular goal... which it was... first, to track down other elves, which morphed into finding the palace. And it had a focused theme-- identity. Who are we?

Seige at Blue Mountain and Secret of Two Edge were similar-- the goal was to get Windkin back... and stop Winnowil. The theme was guilt.

Shards-- to recover the Palace.

The parallel story for Ember's tribe was all about Ember's coming of age. They were on a search to find a home, which drove the story forward. Otherwise, everything else... from her interactions with Skywise, to Moonshade's irritation, to choosing her weapon, to meeting Tier and having to make judgement calls about him, to fighting the funky shapechanged animals... was all about her growing into an adult and a leader.

Searcher and the Sword (which I liked!)-- for Shuna to stand up to her abusive spouse-- and by extension, conquer the memory of her abusive father.

Discovery-- to find and meet the Wavedancers-- and the theme was the debilitating nature of fear.

So what's the driving story behind "Final Quest"? We know the central issue is "who goes and who stays"-- but otherwise... it does feel meandering. I guess the obsessed humans are supposed to drive the elves to leave... but I think there are a lot of things thrown in there that don't help to focus the story, they just distract.




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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Thu May 04, 2017 3:58 pm

It seems to me that loss of identity is a strong theme in FQ, but that may be unintended...
Like, Moonshade who seems to have lost her original identity, while her lifemate desperately hangs on to his. Rayek and Winnowill, who try but fail to change each other's identity. And then there is Cutter who is at risk of becoming literally somebody else, and fights it.

And Skywise of course, who did not realize that without his wolf blood, he has a different identity, and his relationship with Cutter would never be the same. And now that Cutter is going trough an even stranger change, he is left deeply upset and unable to communicate with somebody he could once communicate without words with.
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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Thu May 04, 2017 10:04 pm

Those are really good points Elwing. Yes, I think disruption of longstanding relationships has been happening throughout the story.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:21 pm

Just got caught up on things and I wanted to add my agreement that the rape scene was really unnecessary. OK, we get it, they're bad horrible people. Having them rape a mortally wounded woman until she died was taking it too far. Elfquest is already gritty enough, it didn't need that.
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