Father Tree Holt

Home to the Scrolls of Colors Family
 
HomePortalCalendarFAQRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Final Quest #19

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
AuthorMessage
Shadowpath

avatar

Sagittarius Tiger
Posts : 1033
Join date : 2015-11-07
Age : 30
Location : That really dull place.

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:03 pm

Ok.
:
 

Spoiler:
 

___________________________________________________

'We're all broken, in different ways, in varying degrees.'
Back to top Go down
Sifra

avatar

Pisces Goat
Posts : 423
Join date : 2015-07-07
Age : 38

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:04 pm

Spoiler:
 

2:
 

3:
 

___________________________________________________
Back to top Go down
Miss Gillespie

avatar

Posts : 438
Join date : 2015-04-25
Location : Shanghai

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:40 pm

I'm not going to add a spoiler tag, if one reads an issue's thread after it came out but complains about spoilers, it's one's own fault.

I hope Rayek's clothes are not a reoccurring character Shocked are those red stripes made of lasers, or what?!

How much of a threat can Door become in five issues? Unless he is the "most fearsome weapon" the humans bring to the holt, then he won't even appear in the next issue. And why should he cooperate with the humans, why should he know how to use the little palace and why should he know, that you can use it to control the big one? Because some TWoTM stones told him, that some alien stones have that power (Why should the stones know)? And if the little palace has this kind of power, why hasn't any of the elves ever thought of getting it back? And maybe it's not such a bright idea to use so many parts of the palace as random trinkets!

Nah, it stopped making sense long time ago

___________________________________________________
It's a dolphin!
Back to top Go down
Sifra

avatar

Pisces Goat
Posts : 423
Join date : 2015-07-07
Age : 38

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:42 am

I think the alien stone itself knows. (You know it would have been cool if some of these vague concepts were visually explained instead of just being told by a character. That would make it less abstract and it would be very interesting.)
But yeah you're right Doors storyline can't be that impressive this late into the story. It's probably a short scene just like with the ancient troll. I think it will go somewhat like this: Door shows up, yells there's a threat, then Cutter does something and it is over. Razz

___________________________________________________
Back to top Go down
Miss Gillespie

avatar

Posts : 438
Join date : 2015-04-25
Location : Shanghai

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:15 am

@Sifra wrote:
I think the alien stone itself knows.
But Door never had any interaction with the palace. There is no reason, why he should have any knowledge about it or it's powers.
@Sifra wrote:
It's probably a short scene just like with the ancient troll. I think it will go somewhat like this: Door shows up, yells there's a threat, then Cutter does something and it is over. Razz
That's so going to happen, yet still before the cardboard villains, a.k.a. the Djunslander arrive XD

___________________________________________________
It's a dolphin!
Back to top Go down
Sifra

avatar

Pisces Goat
Posts : 423
Join date : 2015-07-07
Age : 38

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:27 am

@Miss Gillespie wrote:
@Sifra wrote:
I think the alien stone itself knows.
But Door never had any interaction with the palace. There is no reason, why he should have any knowledge about it or it's powers.

Good point.
Well at first I thought he might have heard it from the little palace, but at the point he said that, he had not actually touched any piece of the little palace yet. Maybe he can communicate telepathically with stones from a distance? (I dislike that idea but it would be fitting for FQ, it's convenient for the storytelling and abstract.) Or maybe he just suspects it and has yet to try it out?

@Miss Gillespie wrote:
@Sifra wrote:
It's probably a short scene just like with the ancient troll. I think it will go somewhat like this: Door shows up, yells there's a threat, then Cutter does something and it is over. Razz
That's so going to happen, yet still before the cardboard villains, a.k.a. the Djunslander arrive XD
We both have the same high expectations of this epic story... Razz

___________________________________________________
Back to top Go down
Zinegirl

avatar

Sagittarius Pig
Posts : 92
Join date : 2015-04-07
Age : 21
Location : The Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:49 am

What I want: Get to know new tribes of elves and their lifestyles in more detail (fire elves wot; also interested in the elves that self-shaped into humans)
What I get: new age palace crap and clone tool drawings

Also who is the sire of Venka's kid? Crying or Very sad Gotta update my Family Tree!


___________________________________________________
Back to top Go down
http://zinegirl.deviantart.com/art/ElfQuest-Family-Tree-SPOILERS
manga

avatar

Posts : 793
Join date : 2015-03-25

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:57 pm

Lines That Should Have Been™

Skywise: "And joy! Your grandcub could be born in the Palace as it floats past the moons!"

Rayek: "The grandchild I shall never see, Skywise? A parting of keen sorrow!"

-----

Thoughts:

If Salt and Spray were getting shaped to breath only air, why not just give them human shapes for the journey?

I really could have lived without the rape. It does fit the realities of war and gives the story a chance to introduce some more sympathetic humans in the war group so it's neither out of place nor egregious... I just could have lived without it.

Shuna "long dead by now?" It's been what, 40 years? "Probably dead by now" I'd take. Have I just lost track of how much time is supposed to have passed?

Dre-Ahn was shown helping someone travelling with a child. Maybe there's an exception to Timmain's "they have to make it on their own" rule when children are involved.

Why, if Rayek is supposed to be hiding among humans, is he dressed in laser-bright clothes with convenient holes for his big, pointy ears to poke through?

Mender and Dart's lifemating -- Eh. Unnecessary storyline, only there so the artist can Say Something. There's no emotional investment in it.

Kimo, staying by Shuna's side only delays the decision. You do realize that, don't you?

So who the heck is the father of Venka's child??? You can't tell me Rayek wouldn't have asked that right off! He's from a culture that had no reproduction without Recognition, never mind his own experience with the mother of his child stealing said child. Even if it's some random Go-Back and even Venka doesn't know for sure*, that seems like a pretty big question to leave dangling given the emotional weight put on the having and not having of children throughout the rest of the books.

*Assuming it's not Two-Edge after all - just because there's no "answering spark" there doesn't mean she never tried to start a fire. Especially if she's an elf and we are supposed to believe that elves have no trouble getting on at the drop of a hat WITH the hat since they're "omnisexual" and all.

Back to top Go down
Shadowpath

avatar

Sagittarius Tiger
Posts : 1033
Join date : 2015-11-07
Age : 30
Location : That really dull place.

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:20 pm

I don't buy it. Timmain seems firm in her 'they must make the travel by themselves and prove themselves worthy to me'-hogshit. Tho I don't understand why the fuck anybody has to prove them selves to somebody that has been living as a wolf for about 20 thousand years, and not as an High One.

___________________________________________________

'We're all broken, in different ways, in varying degrees.'
Back to top Go down
Embala

avatar

Capricorn Pig
Posts : 6279
Join date : 2012-06-24
Age : 57
Location : Germany

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:26 pm

Don't get it either ... don't like it either ... but there's a difference between Dre-Ahn's support and Skywise's support.

Skywise wanted to use the Palace. Magic.
All that Dre-Ahn seems to use is his patience. His pony. Maybe his "song"

___________________________________________________
Back to top Go down
Lunakat

avatar

Posts : 2739
Join date : 2014-03-15
Location : On a rooftop, contemplating the moon

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:40 pm

I see the difference. Skywise was just going to show up on their doorstep-- which would be a bad idea if you co sister beings like the lava elves. Dre Ahn is just meeting people who are setting out of their own accord somewhere along the way-- and helping guide them the last steps. He's not popping in out of the blue on folks who might rather prefer to be left alone. He's assisting the ones who are making an effort of their own volition.

___________________________________________________
afro flower afro 
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnbYyTlz1Tw
Lunakat

avatar

Posts : 2739
Join date : 2014-03-15
Location : On a rooftop, contemplating the moon

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:44 pm

I don't think Venka really cares who the father of her child is. It's one of the Go Backs, probably--but maybe she doesn't even know.

___________________________________________________
afro flower afro 
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnbYyTlz1Tw
Lunakat

avatar

Posts : 2739
Join date : 2014-03-15
Location : On a rooftop, contemplating the moon

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:47 pm

I'm thinking Timmain was really looking out for Skywise-- because a lot of those characters might not have been friendly. It was Savah who gave the "do it for themselves" explanation-- not Timmain. At least from what I remember.

___________________________________________________
afro flower afro 
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnbYyTlz1Tw
Sifra

avatar

Pisces Goat
Posts : 423
Join date : 2015-07-07
Age : 38

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:49 pm

For some reason, I picture Skywise as a Jehova's Witness now. He's going from elf tribe to elf tribe instead of door to door, using the palace.
I don't see the harm in it, really. Elves could just say no if they don't want to go. And the palace would be powerful enough to protect him from lava and stuff like that.
But I don't know. Question

___________________________________________________
Back to top Go down
Shadowpath

avatar

Sagittarius Tiger
Posts : 1033
Join date : 2015-11-07
Age : 30
Location : That really dull place.

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:02 pm

WHY DID SKYWISE HAVE SLEEVES
THEY'RE GODDAMN SEE-THROUGH

___________________________________________________

'We're all broken, in different ways, in varying degrees.'
Back to top Go down
Miss Gillespie

avatar

Posts : 438
Join date : 2015-04-25
Location : Shanghai

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:08 am

I have the pet theory, that people can ignore plot holes, as long as the general story is satisfying and entertaining. One of my favourite TV shows is Hannibal. It does have it's inconsistencies, but they don't influence the overall experience.

FiQu is not really enjoyable, so the plot holes are just way more glaring.

Those merelves are using magic (being shaped into having legs) to get to the palace. They got magic help from the creature of the black lagoon to fend off the humans. So where is the fine print on using magic to get to the palace? The Sunfolk were in the palace by default, how did they prove themselves?

The rape scene was totally unnecessary, it was just to hammer home that the Djunsmen are evil as fuck. "They not simply rape, they're raping mortally wounded women"

The great-grandson from Tyleet's woodcutter looks like in his mid-fourties, if his grandfather was a baby during the Shards War, then at least 85 years have passed since the war. Shukopek is ancient!

___________________________________________________
It's a dolphin!
Back to top Go down
Shadowpath

avatar

Sagittarius Tiger
Posts : 1033
Join date : 2015-11-07
Age : 30
Location : That really dull place.

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:24 am

I can see it now, they show up at the Palace and Skywise is just shaking his head at them, smirking sadly.
'You can't come in, you used magic to get here and my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grand mother who is also my lover, says that's cheating and you aren't worthy in her eyes. Bye!'
Gods, I hate nearly everything in this issue.

___________________________________________________

'We're all broken, in different ways, in varying degrees.'
Back to top Go down
Redhead Ember

avatar

Aries Dragon
Posts : 3126
Join date : 2015-04-17
Age : 29
Location : Right here

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:29 am

My favourite parts from this issue.

1:
Dart and Mender! I love you
Just... dawwwww! Also, love how Kimo is totally shipping them. "My uncle and one of my best friends. Awesome."
Good thing, though, that the elves don't really have a concept of awkward. Otherwise; imagine Serrin's reaction: "Okay... my ex-lifemate and my uncle..."
What is it with Dart and that family?

2:
Padki's grandson. Nice to know there are people among the Djunlanders who do not believe that "evil demons" trolldung for one second, but are only there because they're being forced.
Also, does he look a lot like the Woodcutter that guy?

3:
The Warrior woman! Awesome lady!
Don't like her fate though, *shudder*.


Where did it say that the elves answering the Call aren't allowed to use magic? It was simply stated that they had to come to the Palace in their own way. And I'd say swimming across the ocean - past a war-fleet - then make your own disguise in order to be able to walk across land is definitely getting there in their own way. Sure, they used magic to have legs, and before that Spray used magic to have a tail, but I was actually a bit surprised they didn't simply shape themselves into looking like humans.
Back to top Go down
Wisp

avatar

Posts : 142
Join date : 2015-09-23

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:16 pm

@Miss Gillespie wrote:
I have the pet theory, that people can ignore plot holes, as long as the general story is satisfying and entertaining. ....

FiQu is not really enjoyable, so the plot holes are just way more glaring.

I agree with you 100%. FQ broke me a couple issues ago, so I've stopped trying to think too critically about it, but I really can't get past some of the unforced errors without shaking my head.

Why should we care about Venka's pregnancy? I don't give a rat's you-know-what who the father is because...it doesn't matter. We will never see this kid. They will never have a personality or a role to play. I'm not even convinced that Venka's pregnancy has any larger plot significance. She's not showing; will it even matter that she's pregnant in battle? Probably not. So Venka's pregnancy and the discussion around it is just eating up the very limited number of images we have remaining in FQ for, what I would be willing to bet, no purpose.

The rape of the warrior woman....This is a demonstration of egregious tonal inconsistency. If this scene happened in A Song of Ice and Fire--sure, that's consistent with that universe in which sexual violence is persistent and consistent. But in EQ? I'm wracking my brains to remember if we've ever seen another instance of forcible rape. To my mind, it simply does not mesh in the EQ universe--not that it cannot exist, just that its depiction is tonally discordant with everything that's come before. I hate its inclusion 1) because it's lazy storytelling (need to make a villain extra unlikable? Have him rape a woman or hurt a kid/pet) and 2) because it feels like it was included to prove that EQ can be just as edgy and gritty as contemporary hit fantasy universes.

The palace and the whole plotline associated with it is non-compelling and makes almost no sense. There are always new rules being introduced. The latest is this thing with Door and the Little Palace, which absolutely feels concocted on the spot to allow for a brief conflict. The palace can't be used in war. It can't be used to pick up elves. I am so sick of it, I wish it and every boring elf living in it would disappear post haste. I literally have no more f's to give about any of them.

Some of the art in this issue and the last was better than the overall FQ average. Some of the page layouts were actually pretty dynamic, and there were some nice original drawings that reminded me of the OQ.
Back to top Go down
Wisp

avatar

Posts : 142
Join date : 2015-09-23

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:26 pm

Question about Dart and Mender: I was surprised that there was a discussion and celebration of their lifemating. I don't think we've ever seen this with another couple? I was always under the impression that lifemating was less ceremonial and more habitual, for lack of a better word. This issue made it seem more like a wedding, especially with the two of them being carried around by the crowd. I kept waiting for them to break the glass or something. The whole thing didn't feel very "elfy" to me? In my mind, lifemating is less of a "big deal" to the elves, something between the elves involved and which is understood by the community implicitly, either through actions or a "psychic shift" of some kind which could be perceived through sending. Was anyone else surprised by the way it was depicted here?

The whole Dart/Mender relationship feels like tokenism to me anyways, since EQ always claimed to be more sexually inclusive than was ever actually shown in the pages of the comic. So now there are canon same-sex lifemates not part of a triad. Point taken.
Back to top Go down
Embala

avatar

Capricorn Pig
Posts : 6279
Join date : 2012-06-24
Age : 57
Location : Germany

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:34 pm

@Wisp wrote:
But in EQ? I'm wracking my brains to remember if we've ever seen another instance of forcible rape. To my mind, it simply does not mesh in the EQ universe--not that it cannot exist, just that its depiction is tonally discordant with everything that's come before.
Just for the records and to save your poor brain: Yes, there was one in Wild Hunt.
Teenaged Angrif encouraged his "bodyguard warrior" to rape his twin sister Gifa.
Makes your statements and conclusions not less true, tho. *nodnod*

Quote :
Question about Dart and Mender: I was surprised that there was a discussion and celebration of their lifemating. I don't think we've ever seen this with another couple?
I was slightly surprised ... more because I thought we were past this already. And ... because it was such a big deal for the elves.

Well, we had a celebration for Cutter and Leetah. Something seemed to be planned for Sunstream and Brill, too. But this was Recognition ... and the celebration seemed to be more for the new life than for lifemating.

1. Maybe it was a Sunfolk thing?

2. The Elves thought it is time for a big party again? The festivities must have gotten rare ... no Recognitions (fulfilled), no Festival of Flood and Flowers, no pre-war dance ... XD
They simply got for the next best reason? ^^

... mostly kidding.

___________________________________________________
Back to top Go down
manga

avatar

Posts : 793
Join date : 2015-03-25

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:54 pm

There was a nice  shindig got up for Cutter and Leetah but I agree that the lifemating and celebration of Dart and Mender feel like "See? Look what we did!"
Back to top Go down
Wisp

avatar

Posts : 142
Join date : 2015-09-23

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:23 pm

Ah, but like you say, those celebrations were in the context of recognition, which is totally understandable given the rarity of elf babies in most tribes. To be fair, EQ has seemed to conflate recognition with lifemating at times--it's one of the more ambiguous aspects of elf culture, I'd say, or at least one which has morphed a bit over years of storytelling.

Personally, I like it when elf culture differs from my own. I also find it a little...quaint that giving Dart and Mender an almost stereotypical "wedding" (i.e. tied to commitment and not reproduction) is supposed to shore up EQ's progressive bona fides given that there's debate within some quarters of the LGBTQ+ community as to whether the fight for marriage equality is a strategic concession to heteronormativity. I will say that I think W&R have all the best intentions when it comes to Dart and Mender's relationship and surely that counts for something, even if it has been something less than elegant in execution.
Back to top Go down
Zadzi

avatar

Posts : 1235
Join date : 2015-07-11
Location : Always moving....

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:26 am

As usual, Wisp sums up all my thoughts and feelings perfectly in terms of issues with...the issue Smile

I did not care for the Dart/Mender lifemates thing mainly because it made me feel like I was missing a panel , i.e- wait, did I miss the page where they exchanged soul names?
In EQ as far as I can remember, there was always an 'unconventional' life mating :
- Nightfall and Redlance (beautifully done, been together a long , long time before exchanging soul names deliberately, and it was a big moment when they did. First she tried to give him hers, he was dying, and then way later she gave hers, right before the palace war, she gave hers, and then later they exchanged names. It was a BIG DEAL.

- Pike/Skot/Krim - unconventional 3-way mating which was kind of off to the side with no soul names shown exchanged, but time spent together in issues (KOtBW, Dreamtime, Shards) sort of cemented the bond for me as a reader. Plus the 3 of them are very unconventional with Skot/Krim and their Go-Back no soul name thing and Pike being experimental in terms of his father's attempt at 'forcing' recognition. No soul names but deep bonds shown over time.

- Now I guess it's Dart and Mender? I mean, fine. But it's been shown very little in terms of bonding with what we're seeing regardless of how much time's passed. No real buildup. It reads as a nod with just lip service to LGBTQ community... but it's a little throwaway in how it's presented. Suddenly they're love mates (no buildup, just abruptly) and abruptly there's a ceremony with the term' lifemate' and no soul names shown as exchanged. It felt really superficial and rushed and really just unnecessary. There's been no real time or energy spent with this. They had some special dialogue but why not follow it up with soul names? They're 'deeper' types. They're not Go-Backs, they're not Pike types.... so it's not feeling special at all.

EQ always made such a BIG DEAL out of life mating. It was ceremonious even when it was not recognition. Special attention to detail or extended detail was show. This just seemed shallow and yeah intentions are good and all, but in terms of story, it makes zero sense. Mender is territorial, and Dart is serious. You get 2 types like that together, you show as soul name scene, period. Or extended scenes of progressive closeness -I got more closeness with Kimo and Dart than Mender and Dart. It was not shown as romantic but it always 'felt' bonded, you know? This does not. I wish they'd knock off the deliberate , self-conscious 'we're so progressive' thing, it's coming off as very calculated and unnatural. Why not just let it flow organically? Why the hell do these 2 even need to be lifemated ? Dewshine and Scouter were together for like ever and they called each other 'love mate', and I never doubted their commitment. It's just weird.

As for the rest... again, Wisp really echoes my thoughts perfectly.

___________________________________________________
Thank you for the beautiful banner, Embala  cheers

Back to top Go down
Redhead Ember

avatar

Aries Dragon
Posts : 3126
Join date : 2015-04-17
Age : 29
Location : Right here

PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #19   Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:19 am

But there was build-up between Mender and Dart.

First there was the "I'm nowhere near as good as they... or you." scene in issue 7.
Then they clearly spent some time together, tracking down Drub - on wolfback - around the time of issues 9 and 10.
Finally, after a 10-year timeskip might have gotten progressively closer, there was the "Share your pain with me." scene.

They don't need to share soulnames, because sharing soulnames is not important in order to become lifemates, what's important is that they chose to become lifemates.
And that brings Dart's lifemate-count up to four! Sure, not all of them at the same time, but still; he's the elf alive - and probably in the entire history of the elves - who has had most lifemates.
Back to top Go down
 
Final Quest #19
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 3 of 6Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 Similar topics
-
» The Final Quest
» Final Quest #9
» Final Quest #10
» Final Quest #11
» Final Quest #12

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Father Tree Holt :: ElfQuest Comic Discusions-
Jump to: