Father Tree Holt

Home to the Scrolls of Colors Family
 
HomePortalCalendarFAQSearchMemberlistUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Inauguration Day and after

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
AuthorMessage
Lunakat

avatar

Posts : 2675
Join date : 2014-03-15
Location : On a rooftop, contemplating the moon

PostSubject: Inauguration Day and after   Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:04 pm

So... davrille asked this:
Quote :
those are links from like last year, aren't they? Kasich doesn't want anything to do with Pence or Trump, and even though he literally had an opportunity handed to him recently, he flat-out turned it down. Gotta say, I do respect that guy. He's got a hell of a lot of integrity - he doesn't just 'fall into line' because he's on the same 'side'. He literally was the most sane candidate on the Republican side. Not flashy enough or bombastic enough I guess lol

Yes- they are from last year. I was responding to Evil Evie's comment about how likely it was that Pence would be directing things or that Congress would check him if he did.

My point was that it's highly likely that Pence is shaping the agenda because a.) They said Pence would shape the agenda- and b.) Kasich, who did turn down the offer, claims that Trump offered him the position of VP saying he would be the most powerful VP in history because he would be effectively running the country. This is a really good indication, since Pence did take the job-- that he's effectively in charge.

So let's talk about this and try to not personally insult eachother this time.

_________________
afro flower afro 
Back to top Go down
View user profile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnbYyTlz1Tw
Wiseshaman

avatar

Posts : 596
Join date : 2012-06-23

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:28 pm

@Lunakat wrote:

So let's talk about this and try to not personally insult each other this time.

And that is all we ask for.  You can guys can talk politics, who won Dancing With The Stars, or even Mixed Martial Arts, just be nice and no insults.

Thank you Luna for being so courteous...and here's George to make sure we're good.


_________________
Dubbed Streaking ADD Cowboy of Awesome Sagas by KindredSoul and nibblet
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.rkanepublications.com/
Davrille

avatar

Virgo Horse
Posts : 231
Join date : 2015-03-25
Age : 50

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:38 am

https://lawfareblog.com/malevolence-tempered-incompetence-trumps-horrifying-executive-order-refugees-and-visas
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Lunakat

avatar

Posts : 2675
Join date : 2014-03-15
Location : On a rooftop, contemplating the moon

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:41 am

Yes.
Fwiw-- I'm finding out some of my friends are alt right. It's really disconcerting.

_________________
afro flower afro 
Back to top Go down
View user profile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnbYyTlz1Tw
Trollbabe

avatar

Posts : 435
Join date : 2015-03-01

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:04 pm

Good topic - I would have put it in Off Topics, as it's not a single day event, but I won't argue the point. (BTW we are on a budget Internet plan, because I work with text rather than graphics. So I skip videos, and only watch a few on the public library WiFi, maybe twice a month.)

I have friends and relatives who don't share my political, social or religious views. I have some wo even (gasp!) vote Republican. Even if it's highly sensitive issues, I realize that we all want what's best for each other, for our country and for the next generation. It may not be what's the best thing. It's what each of us perceive as being the best thing.

We aren't robots and computers. We make decisions based upon emotion, and try to back them up with logic. It does no good to demonize each other, or to think we are smarter or more logical than those we care about.

The best we can do is to put aside our own agenda and listen to each other. This is what I do when I interview people. Why did you open a foreign car garage? Not "why would I want to open a garage?", or "why I would have opened a pastry shop instead."

Regarding the election: After conducting political surveys much of last year, I believe that the 2016 election was the most heated elections I've experienced since the Hunt-Helms senate race in North Carolina in the 1980s. Yet, with everything at stake, roughly half of America didn't even bother to go to the polls!

Just before the election, I worked customer service for citizens who were either registering to vote, updating their registration, applying for absentee ballots, finding out in which state they were currently registered, or finding their polling stations.

Some of the arrogance I encountered was unbelievable. One lady accused me of keeping her from voting because she missed the registration deadline, which had already been extended. Generally people treated voter registration as if they were ordering a pizza.

So the people who wanted President Trump are getting President Trump, and he seems to be wasting no time in doing the things they wanted him to do. Meanwhile, our American rights and liberties have been under attack for decades. Is the President just working faster on it than the previous administrations?

Did we get the leadership we wanted, the leadership we need, or the leadership we truly deserve?

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Zadzi

avatar

Posts : 1208
Join date : 2015-07-11
Location : Always moving....

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:14 pm

With a tyrant backed by a white supremacist (Bannon), things certainly are moving swiftly!
Whatever liberties everyone thought were so under attack are like officially under attack now just within a past week, because, y'know, things move fast with tyrants....what would normally take years tends to take weeks/months.

_________________
Thank you for the beautiful banner, Embala  cheers

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Lunakat

avatar

Posts : 2675
Join date : 2014-03-15
Location : On a rooftop, contemplating the moon

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:13 pm

It's amazing that, after all the complaining about Obama's executive orders-- he's immediately started with executive orders. I think that by bypassing Congress this way, he's leaving himself open to lawsuits.

_________________
afro flower afro 
Back to top Go down
View user profile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnbYyTlz1Tw
Zadzi

avatar

Posts : 1208
Join date : 2015-07-11
Location : Always moving....

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:15 pm

I'm always fascinated about how Michael Moore correctly predicted this win - and also how Hilary would lose every single rustbelt state which he pointed out. It's scary.
He also warned the people about voting for Trump by basically telling them he doesn't give a damn about them. And that's exactly what's happening. The 'swamp' drainage is being filled up by billionaires. That ban on Muslim countries (which is disgusting) doesn't even include probably the #1 country where the wahabis are coming out of, and who've been wreaking havoc on the world with their fanatical brand of Islam. Saudi Arabia is NOT on that list because billionaires / money / oil, and also... Trump has some golf courses there and investments to protect. That's why I am laughing in the face of this BS that this was for 'security reasons' for the US. ISIS looks at what he's doing as a boon and a gift. ISIS's #1 group of people who are killed at their hands are other Muslims btw. Not that a lot of people give 2 shits about this because, well, they all look at muslims as the same and who cares. Isolationism however will get you NOWHERE.

Putting a gag order on the EPA and telling scientists that they're not allowed to publish their findings unless they go through the WH where it's been made clear that science doesn't matter... that's some authoritarian shit right there. Esp with Bannon calling the media the 'opposition' - any media which doesn't BACK him or kiss the proverbial ring.

You have a child who is obsessed with crowd size a POTUS and who has authoritarian instincts (yet not authoritarian tactics because he himself is not disciplined enough). Bannon however is a different story and does have the discipline. Which is scary. Read up on authoritarianism because this is exactly what's starting to happen now and what will continue happening.

I've literally made myself sick from reading all that's been happening lately and freaking out, every single day, for hours.

_________________
Thank you for the beautiful banner, Embala  cheers

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Trollbabe

avatar

Posts : 435
Join date : 2015-03-01

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:16 pm

Zadzi mentioned rustbelt states. Another critical vote was the "flyover" areas: rural populations that once relied heavily on industrial jobs, such as textile mills. There was enough anger and despair among the jobless to want to vote for any kind of change.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Miss Gillespie

avatar

Posts : 385
Join date : 2015-04-25
Location : Shanghai

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:28 pm

During the last parliamentary elections I didn't vote, because there was not a single party I would endorse. At that time was a lot of media coverage about 'non voters', who purportedly are breaking democracy with their egoism and laziness, which really made me angry. I made a conscious choice, and I still feel the blame is not with me but with the parties.


However, there was no Trump among the candidates, and my country has a multi-party system with a coalition government. I would not have abstained from voting, when someone like Trump was a real possibility.

_________________
It's a dolphin!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Trollbabe

avatar

Posts : 435
Join date : 2015-03-01

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:17 pm

Our two major parties had little to offer last year as well. Americans are permitted to cast a blank ballot, or to write in a candidate whose name is not already printed on the ballot. I wrote in a candidate who appeared on some state's ballots, but not mine.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Zadzi

avatar

Posts : 1208
Join date : 2015-07-11
Location : Always moving....

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:34 am

@Trollbabe wrote:
Zadzi mentioned rustbelt states. Another critical vote was the "flyover" areas: rural populations that once relied heavily on industrial jobs, such as textile mills. There was enough anger and despair among the jobless to want to vote for any kind of change.

Yes, this is what really breaks my heart, I think. I know a lot of those people have felt disenfranchised for a long time, and I know they specifically wanted someone anti-establishment to help their cause. A business man 'looks good' because it's what might be needed. The problem though is that business people aren't necessarily altruistic.... in the end I deeply feel that they voted against their own best interests but were desperate to throw this vote as a kind of molotov cocktail to government to get their attention (this is pretty much what Michael Moore said and since he is from Flint, Michigan, one of those states, he is very familiar with a lot of this and has had his finger on the pulse of the general country's climate for some time now. The democrats DID NOT do a good job in being inclusive in their dialogue and I have to say that Hilary did NOT speak to these people effectively in the way they wanted to be spoken to. Don't get me wrong - she spoke to them directly, but I feel she didn't use the *language* which they wanted to hear. I feel a lot of these people wanted assurances and they did not get it. The truth is a lot of these jobs , most of these jobs, aren't coming back, full stop.
Stuff like coal and the like isn't coming back. It would literally cost more money to bring back these jobs plus it has enormous environmental consequences to do so. It just isn't prudent or logical or feasible.
The solution was for these people to be retrained to have other options but there's such a pride sticking point in it and I feel a lot of them are insulted because frankly they didn't want to be put through that kind of crap. And in some ways I don't blame them. I think the most logical option would've been to just pay them out, for government to just provide for them one lump sum, a good amount, and let them decide what to do next. I don't think it's fair to LIE to them and tell them these jobs are coming back because they just are not. I feel they wanted to hear that though. I feel they wanted that message of hope. Why wouldn't they?
But my solution is considered socialist and I am a big fat socialist in that way because I believe that would be right and fair.

I mean, the problem here is that even though I do get it - coal miner families that go back generations do have a source of pride from it - but that doesn't mean it's going to work anymore. I come from a long line (4 generations) of silversmiths and jewelers, and if they were no longer able to do that for whatever reason, it would be soul-crushing in terms of legacy. But on the other hand, I would hope that they would have some back-up plan and want to branch out and do something different for their survival, for the survival of their families and children, etc. Find a new legacy, pass it down. There has to be some kind of wiggle room for adaptability. We don't live in times where the American Dream is as attainable as it used to be in exactly the same way. It's sad but it's the unfortunately what's happened. I know a lot of people are scared of immigrants and all that but it's the immigrants who come here and do a lot of the dirty work which a lot of natives have no patience for, and are so achingly grateful to be given a chance to succeed and have such ridiculous love and respect for this country. They aren't the ones taking over the jobs from coal or textiles or steel either though. That crap is being outsourced. Don't think for a second it won't continue to be. I hate to say it. It actually makes me really upset because I know the people have been lied to and those people have been wanting the care and attention for so long, they are like parched plants. You give them a little bit of water (attention) and you have ALL their loyalty and they'll be eating right out of your hand. It's really sad!

_________________
Thank you for the beautiful banner, Embala  cheers

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Trollbabe

avatar

Posts : 435
Join date : 2015-03-01

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:29 pm

I agree. As far as retraining people, I have driven through rural areas with boarded-up mills, and there is nothing else to do. One could try to grow corn on rocky slopes, despite competition from big factory farms, which may not even be owned by American concerns. Or make moonshine and hope not to get caught. Or stand in long lines at the convenience store when the lottery numbers are high.

Where I live, impoverished city neighborhoods are food deserts with few customer service jobs. Bus service is limited and expensive. Where the jobs are, the housing is out of a poor family's reach.

Our military is always hiring, but only young and the fit, and even they have trouble finding jobs once they are discharged.

It irks me when politicians on either side of the aisle talk about job creation. Eliminating full-time jobs with insurance benefits, and replacing them with two or three part-time or temp jobs, is not job creation. Recently, a social worker told me the bulk of her new cases are not young adults with small children, but people over fifty.

White supremacists appeal to those who feel helpless and disenfranchised. For example, white people who can't find a good job might feel threatened by ranks of minorities and immigrants who are obviously employed. It doesn't matter that these people may either be self-employed, or willing and able to do heavy physical labor outside for low pay.

Another perception may be that politicians care more about bringing in refugees, and allowing gay couples to marry, than helping straight white American families achieve the dignity of self-support. Again, this may not be reality, and I'm not trying to start a debate about gay families or refugess. But it is the emotion to which white supremacist groups may appeal.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile
sun girl

avatar

Posts : 250
Join date : 2015-04-06

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:20 pm

As a non-American it's really hard to comment on this whole situation. I don't know whether I even should? It feels rather surreal from the outside. From the reading I've done, I think Trollbabe is right that a feeling of helplessness and being left out of the national discussion was a big motivation for some people to vote the way they did this election.

My fear is that Trump is incapable of pursuing any interests other than his own. I can't quite personally understand the level of helplessness people must have been feeling to be able to disregard his hateful rhetoric and almost pathological self-interest. I just hope that some kind of checks and balances to his executive power start making themselves felt. The prospect of a post-truth alt-right America becoming reality is very alarming, even from the outside.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Trollbabe

avatar

Posts : 435
Join date : 2015-03-01

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:20 pm

We do have limits on a President's power. Impeachment is a major step, of which I don't know all the details. I think the last President to be impeached was Clinton.

Reagan and Nixon were two other presidents involved in scandals in my lifetime. Nixon resigned.

Americans opposed to Trump may be concerned that if the President were to be removed from office, Vice President Pence would take his place.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Multi-Facets

avatar

Sagittarius Dog
Posts : 234
Join date : 2015-03-31
Age : 34
Location : The Downstairs Domain

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:32 pm

@sun girl wrote:
The prospect of a post-truth alt-right America becoming reality is very alarming, even from the outside.

It should be alarming. Even JK Rowling said when there's someone like him in charge of nuclear launch codes, everyone should be worried no matter where they live.

I didn't vote for that- that- that THING. I want him and his entire Cabinet gone. They're dangerously stupid, dangerously incompetent, dangerously narcissistic, and just plain dangerous.

It may sound like I'm overreacting, but just look at the s--tstorm that's already happening. Refugees banned from Muslim countries where Trump doesn't do business, leaving tourists with legal visas stranded. Teachers telling Mexican children "Trump is going to get rid of you." Mosques being burned down. Employees turning away people who aren't white by saying "My President says I don't have to serve you." Sexual assault on women rose sharply when Trump was just President-Elect. The Affordable Care Act is likely going to be repealed without a replacement.

There's a lot at stake for me and others like me. My beloved mentor will only have ten days to live if the ACA is repealed -that's not hyperbole- and I, as a mentally ill, mentally handicapped, pansexual woman, will have my rights attacked for the rest of my life. It's just a lot worse at the moment.

As much as I hate to quote David Bowie, the chorus from one of his lesser-known compositions is just too apt: "I'm afraid of Americans." And I'm quoting that AS AN AMERICAN.

_________________
“Stay drunk on writing so reality doesn’t destroy you.” - Ray Bradbury.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Trollbabe

avatar

Posts : 435
Join date : 2015-03-01

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:04 pm

Alarming, yes.  Would Hillary Clinton in charge of a nuclear arsenal have been any improvement?  I still feel both parties failed us.

BTW this is off-topic, but regarding insults. I belong to an expat alumni group that holds a big reunion this summer.  I don't plan to go, but typically we might have 1500 attendees.

Apparently several alumni keep in touch through social media.  We have an e-mail newsletter in which we discuss everything from memories to where-are-they-now.  Lately it has been about reunion activities and finding people to share hotel rooms.  This is all supported by volunteers and donations.

We were just advised by an administrator that one lady has had second thoughts about the reunion.  Apparently there were some exchanges on a social media website, regarding politics.  It wasn't a political forum like this one, just a social forum.  (On the e-mail newsletter, we agree not to talk about politics.)

This lady was attacked so viciously by two alumni that she's afraid to go to the reunion.  She doesn't want to spoil her weekend by encountering people who hate her!

I'm tempted to write something in response, although I am not sure what to say.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Wiseshaman

avatar

Posts : 596
Join date : 2012-06-23

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:38 pm

Found this out on the Internet and thought it might be a good read for some. I told my daughter the same and it helped with her despair at the election outcome.

Clinton Democrats Can Thank "Bernie or Busters" in a Few Years

_________________
Dubbed Streaking ADD Cowboy of Awesome Sagas by KindredSoul and nibblet
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.rkanepublications.com/
Lunakat

avatar

Posts : 2675
Join date : 2014-03-15
Location : On a rooftop, contemplating the moon

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:03 pm

I absolutely think Hillary Clinton would have excellent president and per Trollbabe's question-- yes. Much preferable.

_________________
afro flower afro 
Back to top Go down
View user profile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnbYyTlz1Tw
G0lden

avatar

Scorpio Buffalo
Posts : 3106
Join date : 2012-06-26
Age : 55
Location : Northern California

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:46 am

It would have been interesting to have Hilary Clinton in office. At least we wouldn't have the billionaire's club running the country. We would have people with some expertise in their positions. The only good thing is that we have our Civil Liberties and those can't be changed.

I wonder though if the Republican party is truly aware that there are many Americans waiting to run them out of office for good.

_________________
Reese's, Kashmir's, and Tequila's mommy.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Outlier

avatar

Posts : 262
Join date : 2015-04-08

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:06 pm

I also would've felt better with Hilary's hand on the button. Both she and Trump are in corporate pockets, bought and paid for (although in Trump's case, he's the buyer and getting the proft), I think Hilary has a little more discipline and ability to see the big picture.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Lunakat

avatar

Posts : 2675
Join date : 2014-03-15
Location : On a rooftop, contemplating the moon

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:31 pm

The idea that Hillary Clinton was bought and paid for wasn't just misinformation-- it was a right wing talking point. She is a conscientious, self disciplined woman who worked hard to do the right thing most of the time, who cared about people and demonstrated that, and who did see the bigger picture. The worst thing there was to say about her was the she wasn't a charismatic speaker.

_________________
afro flower afro 
Back to top Go down
View user profile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnbYyTlz1Tw
Lunakat

avatar

Posts : 2675
Join date : 2014-03-15
Location : On a rooftop, contemplating the moon

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:37 pm

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2016/07/clinton-and-wall-street-whats-the-deal-really/

_________________
afro flower afro 
Back to top Go down
View user profile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnbYyTlz1Tw
Lunakat

avatar

Posts : 2675
Join date : 2014-03-15
Location : On a rooftop, contemplating the moon

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:44 pm

Also- the whole contrived controversy about her speeches to Goldman Sachs was also bunk. She charged the same flat rate to them that she did everybody. She gave ninety speeches in two years-- maybe four of them were to Goldman Sachs? Not enoughfor them to own her over that. Barely a drop in her bucket, actually. And one of those speeches that she took flack for was a q&a at a developers conference that Elon Musk also attended with every other big name. No one gave a crap that Musk was there-- but she got uber criticized for that. I think she charged less for an event than (I can't remember if it was Kim Kardashian or Paris Hilton)-- but she charged everyone the same rate.

I couldn't believe that Sanders jumped on that-- because, again, that was misinformation.

And all of her quotes-- even the deplorables comment-- were perfectly fine in context. I couldn't find anything she's said that the media was harping over that was objectionable in the context in which is was spoken. But-- nobody got pays attention to anything but sound bites anymore I guess.

It's a crying shame we have this buffoon in office when we could have had such competent, qualified, intelligent and admirable woman.

_________________
afro flower afro 
Back to top Go down
View user profile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnbYyTlz1Tw
Trollbabe

avatar

Posts : 435
Join date : 2015-03-01

PostSubject: Re: Inauguration Day and after   Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:37 am

If radical pro-choice feminists think Clinton is a war hawk who only cares about rich white women, I see no reason to trust her. https://www.versobooks.com/books/2121-false-choices

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile
 
Inauguration Day and after
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 4Go to page : 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Ch 8 - The Inauguration of Desolation
» Inauguration Day

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Father Tree Holt :: Circle of Life-
Jump to: