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PCoquelin

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:15 pm

What are the release dates for #21 and #22 ?

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Embala

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:27 pm

#21 was released more than two weeks ago, PC. I guess #22 will be available end of Octobre.

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PCoquelin

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:58 am

Thanks, Embala dear.
I had wrongly guessed #21 would be released only at the end of september.

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Evil Evie

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:04 am

finally read it, disappointed. Lamest non death ever!

There were only three things I actually liked. The machine gun knives (not that its any different from having a gun.) "The Rocks are hiccupping!" and the last page, which was the only page that made me 'feel' anything.

How many issues to go?

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:04 am

3 more, I think. #22, #23, and #24. Technically, I think it's the longest-running planned series. OQ was only 20 issues long, S@BM was 8, and KoBW was 9.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:11 am

I thought the main quest had more pages, or at least it felt longer. Maybe I was also just more seized by the story.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:49 pm

Final Quest feels longer because Richard and Wendy are trying to wrap over 40 years of story and not doing a good job of it.Original Quest had the mystery of their origins combined with the need for survival,but Final Quest is a wrap-up and farewell.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:09 pm

Original Quest had clearly 30+ pages per issue, with one or two being up to 40.
SaBM was somewehe under 30 Pages ... between 27 and 29.
KotBQ was back to 30 ... with 1 or 2 longer issues.
Let's say 30 average to make it easy - (600 + 240 +270) = 1,110 filled pages.

Final Quest offers 19 to 21 pages per issue ... with some 2 or 3 longer ones.
I'd say 20 average - 480 filled pages (plus some). Add FQ Prologue if you wish ... about 60 pages).

Makes OQ the longest arc by far and SaBM plus KotBW together have (more or less) the lenght of FQ.

FQ is still the tale with the most issues per arc.


So much about "technical data" and numbers. Smile

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Last edited by Embala on Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:22 pm

Embala, wow....Like

To me, Final Quest feels like the longest tale because I don't like it very much and I feel like the various storylines feel like they are dragged out so much.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:16 am

@Sifra wrote:
To me, Final Quest feels like the longest tale because I don't like it very much and I feel like the various storylines feel like they are dragged out so much.

Precisely. A lot of what's racking up the page count in this book seems like padding. So many of the questions that get answered with any depth seem like questions nobody asked, while long-dangling character plots get dashed-off like the writers just didn't want to be bothered with them.

Plus the whole thing had just been an exercise in terrible pacing. I typically only catch up with FQ twice a year when Dark Horse has its deep-discount sales over at Comixology, and I can pick up the issues for a buck each (or less if I have a gift card). Even binge-reading this thing in large chunks, it's felt like the Pinis just didn't have that much left to say about EQ and so needed to stretch out what little they did to fill however many collected editions they hope to get out of this project. Hence the perfunctory, checklist feel to a lot of the story/content resolutions, the back-tracking on development for certain characters, the barely-developed new chracters/tribes, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:23 pm

What're the Pinis going to do when the series ends? Will they retire? Move back in together? Work on other projects? Have either of them mentioned this at all?

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Sifra

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:31 pm

Knit scarfs and play bingo?
Grow herbs and sell herbal tea online?
Learn how to play the accordeon?
Create a secret alphabet and write each other snail mail letters in it?
Train a flea circus?
Collect stamps?
So much to do! bounce

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:43 pm

Maybe Mr. and Mrs. Pini simply wish to retire.
Do what they want when they want. Having time for each other.
No deadlines. No nagging fans. ^^ No nagging Elves either.
And if there should be another (EQ) project do it on their own pace.
Making it fun instead of work.

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PCoquelin

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:29 am

Poor Wendy...


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Sifra

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:53 am

@Embala wrote:
Maybe Mr. and Mrs. Pini simply wish to retire.
Do what they want when they want. Having time for each other.
No deadlines. No nagging fans. ^^ No nagging Elves either.
And if there should be another (EQ) project do it on their own pace.
Making it fun instead of work.

They deserve retirement, and time, and fun. They have created something that has made many people happy and they can be proud of that. flower

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:21 pm

Yeah, I mean. I don't even think the grouchiest of us will hold retirement against them! They absolutely deserve that

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:39 pm

If they do wind up retiring, then yeah, I hope they do have a peaceful and lovely time with it. If they don't, then I wish 'em luck with their future endeavors, whatever they might be.

Although if retirement's their plan, that'd explain a lot about how rushed the Final Quest seems to feel.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:03 am

Of course they deserve their retirement (btw, is it called retirement for self-employed folks as well?)!

The thing with FiQu is, it's obviously not thought through on any level. From a legacy point of view, it would've been probably better, if they didn't try to wrap things up. I'd argue, that the low quality of FiQu has a negative impact on the previous stories. Just like the bad ending of a previously good TV-show influences how people think of the show as a whole.
The Pini's wanted FiQu to be their magnum opus, but they wasted neither on the story nor on the art any efforts to earn that name. No one forced their hand so this is entirely on their own heads.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:51 pm

^ This. This right here.

Thank you, Miss Gillespie, for saying it far better than I could at this point.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:39 am

I have to admit to a certain amount of frustration with the story and art. It feels like they've had 20 years to work on this and to get this pile of recycled hooey that seems to negate all that went before* instead of the nuanced masterwork I was anticipating... well, it makes it feel like Wendy was replaced by a pod person.

It seems to be a fate of long-successful creators. Maybe it's got something to do with the way older people seem to lose their patience or tact. For example, I really enjoy Lois McMaster Bujold's writing but her last few books seem to be stumping harder and harder for her Pet Opinions On Sex.

Of course, when I look up the publication dates "Discovery" was only in 2006 and with FQ starting in 2013 that's only 7 years. Still seems like plenty of time to have worked out a storyline that didn't compress and jump and skip over major developments. But Wendy did have to have surgery in that time and life still needs to be lived... I dunno.

*If Cutter dies, he'll now be worse than dead. How does that fit in with their Happy Happy Glowing Place?
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:36 pm

I 've felt EQ was really losing it in terms of quality when Discovery came out. I wasn't crazy about it because of how the palace was elevated to this entirely insane status... granted, I *get* why that was happening, but the execution just came off as really , I dunno, annoyingly new age-y...crystal creatures and gleaming stuff... it was when I really started actively disliking the palace in general. I guess I shouldn't be surprised since FQ seems like a very natural progression from that point, esp that point, because that was when things just got SO fluffy. I don't like the fluff at all.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:56 pm

They had a different publisher for "Discovery" and "Searcher and the Sword." DC had them really compress the story. I had assumed the flaws of those stories were due to that compression, that if they had been what they were meant to be (my understanding was they'd have been two books each, like "Siege" and "Kings"), they'd have been stronger stories. And heck, maybe they would have laid a better foundation for FQ and the spirity stuff wouldn't have been as jarring.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:28 am

interesting, didn't know about the publisher thing.
Damn, you'd think the longer someone was around the more they're in charge of publishing but i have seen how that world works and it can be really nasty. still... this is pretty bad.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:59 am

the spiritual stuff didn't improve, so I don't think the blame falls on the publisher (for the most part).

Searcher and the Sword was compressed (Treestump and him finding out how to work metal lightning fast), but the art (not the colouring) was way better than in FiQu. I think the biggest problem was, that it focuses on Shuna and most readers don't really care for the humans in EQ.
Discovery had some very odd choices story-wise, and I'm one of those, who don't like or care for the Wave-Dancers.

Still, I think these works are not as bad as FiQu. FiQu fails on so many levels.

Many will probably disagree, but EQ should've ended after Shards

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #21   Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:45 pm

So I caught up on the last few issues.

The art was better than I was expecting, tbh. The coloring isn't all that, but the sequential storytelling was up to par.

Wendy's sense of costume design has either gone right off the deep end, or she's just trolling at this point. What's with all the lingerie?

Oh, goody. Gratuitous rape comes to Elfquest. I thought for a second I was reading a DC book from ten years ago.

Still no love for Dart and Mender as a couple. I wasn't wedded to the idea of Dart and Kimo as a pairing, but this is all tell, no show. Boring and saccharine at the same time. Also, Mender is kind of a creeper.

There were bits of the whole reconciliation with the trolls that I liked, but way more that was just, frankly, gross. I don't know if the Pinis actually thought through the implications of the trolls going back to the Palace, but I'd not be surprised if they hadn't. I did appreciate that Skywise wasn't magically 100% OK with the idea of living elbow to elbow with trolls, though. There's a lot of bad blood there.

The pacing is still pretty bad. It seems like it takes a very long time for anything to happen, and when it does happen, it's stretched out to the point that it loses a lot of its urgency. I feel like the Pinis set the end date for this series, and the reason we're getting so much filler is because the book needs to stretch out until they hit the mark.

I do like that the Go Backs are still looking pretty hard-edged compared to the other elf tribes. The Wolfriders may be mortal, but the Go Backs are the tribe that seems to show the wear of the world the most. It's suiting.

I continue to suspect Wendy has developed an acute allergy to any character development she didn't pen herself.

Mixed bag, with more that disliked than enjoyed. But this is why I wait until the books are 1/4th cover price before I pick them up. Even when it's pretty bad, I feel like I've gotten at least a buck's worth of entertainment out of it (even if I really wanna nuke some of this stuff from orbit).
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