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Outlier

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:13 pm

@Vaeri wrote:
and we now know the SURPRISE from Wendy. Leetah is the new Mother of Memory.

I thought this was kind of weird. Did they think we would see the star on Leetah's head in the teaser pic and jump to the conclusion that she was the new Mother of Memory?

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Sadachbia

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:08 pm

It's always bugged me from the outset (even a bit in Discovery) that Wendy NEVER bothered to give the WaveDancers new outfits*…the Wolfriders, the Sun Folk, and even the surviving Gliders get costume changes, but the sea elves have apparently been wearing the exact same things for, oh, it's got to be close to 100 years by now.

Also bugs me that Moonmirror, Puffer, and Tumble basically still look like children except for Puffer's 6-pack. They didn't grow to normal WaveDancer height? Why, exactly? And WHY ARE THEY STILL WEARING THE SAME CLOTHES THEY HAD AS CHILDREN!?!?

*aside from Salt and Spray getting their grass cloaks and shiny High One duds
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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:03 am

@Outlier wrote:
@Vaeri wrote:
and we now know the SURPRISE from Wendy. Leetah is the new Mother of Memory.

I thought this was kind of weird. Did they think we would see the star on Leetah's head in the teaser pic and jump to the conclusion that she was the new Mother of Memory?

There would've been some diehard fans that guessed it, sure. It would've taken me longer probably. I think that part is ok. It's sweet.
The other parts not so much.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:50 am

@Sadachbia wrote:
but the sea elves have apparently been wearing the exact same things for, oh, it's got to be close to 100 years by now.

Nah, you misunderstood. It's all organic (seaweed, corals, shells) and regrows itself! Wink
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manga

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:35 am

So now that like an entire tribe of elves has left the ecosystem will there be more Recognitions?
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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:34 am

*Manga, now that you mention it, that sounds like it's something that should happen. Actually, the most likely thing would be Teir and Ember's recognition being reignited. But I guess Ember probably is anti-kids still ...
More recognitions would seem like the natural order of things resuming after the stupid palace is gone. Maybe now that it's gone we might have a decent issue without garish crystal towers and halls? It would be so great to have a palace-free issue. Remember when there was no palace, guys? I miss those days.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:10 pm

[snicker] Imagine if the Go-Backs began to Recognize first. It'd blow their minds.

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manga

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:14 pm

I don't know. These days I think we'd got some kind of lecture on spiritual ecosystems and some nonsense about death not being really the end and therefore there still won't be more babies.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:18 pm

Lectures about the dangers of 'overpopulation' as well, I'll bet.

It would be kind of awesome if the Go-Backs just started recognizing, that would sort of crazy to see.

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manga

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:12 am

They've been telling us to check our copies of "Dreamtime."

So what about Zhantee's dream where he saw the High One coming out of the Palace with a daughter for him and Leetah?

Maybe his spirit is going to be reborn in Cutter and Leetah's coming child?
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:49 pm

Wouldn't that be the first case of elfin reincarnation?

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:52 pm

The first known case anyway. I really thought they were leading up to Skywise being a reborn Adya. And there was something in that Hidden Years years issue about "our kinda doesn't die we build new vessels for our spirits."
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:21 pm

I mean, wasn't the first case of reincarnation technically Timmain and Cutter? Didn't they say that was 'exceptional' and wouldn't happen again? I don't know, but I like the idea of a Zhantee return and not just to throw out some random shield Smile

@Manga, I've read them saying that the Hidden Years issue with the Timmain narrative was considered allegorical, not literal. As in, not actual canon so much as a reimagining. But you're right - I think in that one Sefra looks like Skywise, but it's entirely possible that there's some truth to Adya being Skywise in terms of soul. Timmain DID hook up eventually with Aerth (who was considered comparable to Leetah) to have a child (not Timmorn, and we have no idea what exactly what happened to that little girl), and in a roundabout way this kind of seems to reflect Timmain's tie to Cutter. You've got me thinking of some things now ....

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:25 pm

What I don't understand is, If recognition began due to them being on World of Two moons, since the need to reproduce died off entirely on their own home star, then they really don't know if they will even HAVE recognition at all while in the palace. Technically, they're kind of leaving themselves up to chance in terms of no need to biologically reproduce maybe, if they are indefinitely in space. On the opposite end of the spectrum, recognition and breeding makes perfect sense if you're on the WoTM. The remaining elves on that planet would be happily screwing their brains out to make up for lost numbers, it seems like the normal thing to have happen. Starting with Teir and Ember's delayed recognition.
So I'm not exactly sure how to think about this, because something about seems so damn backassward lol

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:32 pm

Ok, I'm going to be a complete pain in the ass here and write a 3rd comment/post. Why on earth is Ember so deadset against kids? I mean, I get she maybe doesn't want them etc., but the way it's presented is it's some great responsibility to have them and she can't let it get in the way. But look at Nightshade, a perfect huntress and follower of the way. She wanted her baby with Redlance and made sure to have it with Leetah's help in the palace. it never got in the way with priorities or personal principle. It's not that I'm some baby-loving person who just wants to see characters make a baby, I'm just wondering what the point is of having a recognition at all if they're not having a baby.... it's supposed to be about 'choices' but the way that situation and recognition has been told reads more as a pushing of personal agenda of the author and NOT the characters and the natural flow of the story. Teir and Ember not having a kid makes zero sense esp with the Palace and a lot of the elf populace leaving.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:58 am

@Zadzi wrote:
Why on earth is Ember so deadset against kids?

I have no clue. In the beginning I though it is because of he obligations as a tribe leader and that she wanted to have her head free or something (I think there's even a quote). But by now...? Well, maybe that will happen in one of the next issues, once the palace is gone? But then, she might still object (tribe leader). Or she's somehow mentally traumatized by witnessing births or by the thought of recognition in general?
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:33 am

You know what suddenly bugs me? The way it way this bet about Miff's "sire-hood" was solved.

As long as I've followed discussions about divergence in hair and eye color of parents and cubs there was Wendy Pini's statement that "elfin genetics don't work like human". I was fine with it.
Now "gold ringlets" on a baby are the proof that Venka's fawn is Mirff's doing? Rolling Eyes This (still nameless) best friend of Venka uses the look quite self-evidentally!

Oh I know ... it's totally circumstantial and unimportant. But sometimes those little inconsistencies bug me more than big ones
- because there was such a fuzz made about "elfin genetics work different"
- and there's not even plot device! as an excusion.
In case the reader is supposed to know about the sire of Satreeka why not just make clear that "we three were together around around time of procreation?

*shrug*

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:44 am

@Zadzi wrote:
Ok, I'm going to be a complete pain in the ass here and write a 3rd comment/post. Why on earth is Ember so deadset against kids? I mean, I get she maybe doesn't want them etc., but the way it's presented is it's some great responsibility to have them and she can't let it get in the way. But look at Nightshade, a perfect huntress and follower of the way. She wanted her baby with Redlance and made sure to have it with Leetah's help in the palace. it never got in the way with priorities or personal principle. It's not that I'm some baby-loving person who just wants to see characters make a baby, I'm just wondering what the point is of having a recognition at all if they're not having a baby.... it's supposed to be about 'choices' but the way that situation and recognition has been told reads more as a pushing of personal agenda of the author and NOT the characters and the natural flow of the story. Teir and Ember not having a kid makes zero sense esp with the Palace and a lot of the elf populace leaving.

Good point. I thought Ember just didn't want a baby in the beginning of FQ because at that moment it would be in the way. That would mean she could have a baby by now. Maybe the recognition thingy didn't come back and Ember was fine with waiting for it?


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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:59 am

As I remember it, it wasn't that Ember was against having children. It was that she had just been seriously traumatized by her capture by the humans and she didn't feel ready for children yet. Maybe she doesn't feel ready for children still or maybe she will by the end of F Q.

Also Tier had just discovered the trauma inflicted on him as a small child by Khavii and he did not feel like he was in a place to be a good father. So maybe he's the hold up.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:14 am

@manga wrote:
As I remember it, it wasn't that Ember was against having children. It was that she had just been seriously traumatized by her capture by the humans and she didn't feel ready for children yet. Maybe she doesn't feel ready for children still or maybe she will by the end of F Q.

Also Tier had just discovered the trauma inflicted on him as a small child by Khavii and he did not feel like he was in a place to be a good father. So maybe he's the hold up.

We did have a scene of her refusing to go visit when Korafay was born, because she wasn’t interested in little ones (which seemed kind of rude considering this was her twin brother’s child). That was before she was traumatised by her capture. I think Wendy just wants Ember to be child free by choice, but in the elves that just comes across as forced and pushing an agenda because elven reproduction really isn’t a matter of choosing to have children or not, so we end up with this absurd refusing recognition thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:50 am

To me it looks more like Ember wasn't interested in newborns as much as older children. Not that she is actually anti-chd. And as a mortal Wolfrider she can't be childfree because then there won't be anybody to take on the role of blood of 12 Chiefs!

Unless that's what Cutter and Leetah's newest child is supposed to be. The argument against the childfree movement because it means you're leaving other people to pick up the slack and providing that there will be a next generation.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:07 am

I wonder, if Leetah's and Cutter's next child does grow up and have their own child, that child would inherit the chief position.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:07 pm

@Embala wrote:
Miff's "sire-hood" [...]
"elfin genetics don't work like human" [...]
"gold ringlets" [...]

Indeed.
But um, maybe it does work coincidentally like human genetics when... ummm, "when we feel like it"? Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:19 pm

@manga wrote:
The argument against the childfree movement because it means you're leaving other people to pick up the slack and providing that there will be a next generation.

That argument makes sense for fictional elves in a way it 100% does not for real life humans.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #22   Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:38 pm

Of course there's one important factor in Ember's situation that I think we haven't paid attention to just yet. There is still the situation with the War Men. I wouldn't be planning a pregnancy at this time myself. So maybe she's waiting until things are settled in addition to the other things already discussed.
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