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 Some questions about the First Comer Troll King

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mojojojo

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PostSubject: Some questions about the First Comer Troll King   Sat 19 May 2018 - 8:02

I had thought that the original series said that the Trolls & Preservers evolved over many generations from the animals the High Ones brought with them. Yet the First Comer King seemed to imply that he was one of the original apes that got brought on-board the Palace.Is that what happened ?

Secondly he seems to say that he will go back to being one of those ground borrowing apes when he gets back to the home world. Is that really what he wants? If so why? I don't think many humans would want to go back to being an Australopithecus
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G0lden

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PostSubject: Re: Some questions about the First Comer Troll King   Sat 19 May 2018 - 18:34

Yup, he was on the Palace to begin with. As for the first? Who knows, he could be correct.

I don't think he will return to his original form when they get back to their home world. Who knows what they will find when they get there.

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Embala

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PostSubject: Re: Some questions about the First Comer Troll King   Sat 19 May 2018 - 19:52

Quote :
I had thought that the original series said that the Trolls & Preservers evolved over many generations from the animals the High Ones brought with them.
This was said by Timmain (via Suntop) in OQ # 20:


Quote :
Yet the First Comer King seemed to imply that he was one of the original apes that got brought on-board the Palace.
And This is from FQ #18 - how the Firstcomer Troll remembers:


For me it is one of the many contradictions between the storyline from Original quest til Final Quest - an inconsistency at least. It puzzled me the same way as it did puzzle you, mojojojo.

Timmain clearly sais:
- We saw many generations of our pets come and go.
- Our shell, suffused with self-changing magic, affected them.
- The burrowers evolved, gained thought and speach.
- Eventually they became as long lived as we.
Upshot: The Trolls as we know them are the result of a generations lasting evolution - enhanced and speeded up by the Palace.

Firstcomer Troll remembers:
- to dig and find in the burrows of our home-sphere
- the Palace changed ME
- and generations of Trolls born within it
Upshot: HE came from the homeworld as an ape-like proto-troll and was shapechanged and mentally and physically envolved by the Palace
and there were generations of Trolls born in the Palace and changed as well.

Inconsistency.  scratch ... or misinterpretation?
Firstcomer Troll uses the term "home-sphere". Can he refer to the Palace sphere instead of the homeworld? No. Some panels later he's speaking of "Back to the palace-ship and then the home-sphere!"
Inconsistency.

Now I can make up my mind and ...
1. shrug it away as one of the many weird inconsistencies, retcons and changes and mistakes in FQ
2. go with the infamous rule #1 - "There are no ..." you know how it goes.
3. decide that one of them remembers wrong - probably Firstcomer Troll has mixed up oooold legends with reality - and the "richest soil of all" was just a "terraformed" home-world area in the Palace.
4. suppose that some proto-trolls got an extra dose of magic, became immortal first and then developed by magical transformation into Trolls.

What's right for you, for other readers ... or how much more different explanations can be found - make up your mind yourself. That's the best answer I can give here.


Quote :
Secondly he seems to say that he will go back to being one of those ground borrowing apes when he gets back to the home world. Is that really what he wants? If so why? I don't think many humans would want to go back to being an  
I don't think the Firstcomer Troll wants to regress into an "Australopithecus" proto-troll.

I can imagine what he means, tho. He remerbers that he was "digging in the home soil" - a simple being with a simple task. He remembers that he was a good digger - he did right and his task was satisfying. He was content with his life.

Then he became a rebel - and this rebellion turned out to be a major fail. "When I first saw this unfriendly world ... how I longed to undo my mischief!". This experiance was not satisfying at all ...
... nothing specific known about the following some 20,000 years ...
and then they made him King. Not a job he was fond of: "Too bad they made me King. All I do is sleep and eat ... and gaze at the treasures they bring."

He longs for this old life, satisfying work and contentness. No more worries. He considers himself as "Never smart ..." - maybe we should see him as the Troll model of Forrest Gump? Being a millionaire mawing the lawn. ^^

by the way: the panorama page of Homeworld shows him on top of a crystal tower at Savah's side in his King's mantle ... Rolling Eyes Inconsistency? Change of mind? *shrug*

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Last edited by Embala on Sat 19 May 2018 - 20:20; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions about the First Comer Troll King   Sat 19 May 2018 - 20:10

@mojojojo wrote:
I had thought that the original series said that the Trolls & Preservers evolved over many generations from the animals the High Ones brought with them. Yet the First Comer King seemed to imply that he was one of the original apes that got brought on-board the Palace.
Were they apes?
I had them down as rodents.
I'm sticking with rodents, 'apes' make me uncomfortable.

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Embala

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PostSubject: Re: Some questions about the First Comer Troll King   Sat 19 May 2018 - 20:35

Good you've mentioned it, Shadowpath. In HY #6 the troll ancestors are pictured as small rodent-like amimals. Personally I was reminded of the rock hyrax.

I've skipped this part because is was declared an allegory and basically non-canon. :/ And it becomes even more difficult to make sense of this OQ-FQ inconsistency if I'd have considered this. *sigh* In my mind the Trolls started out of these small creatures ... and my first thought after The Firstcomer Troll's statements was: How can you remember what you did as a Hyrax? Rolling Eyes

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mojojojo

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PostSubject: Re: Some questions about the First Comer Troll King   Wed 23 May 2018 - 7:53

@Shadowpath wrote:
@mojojojo wrote:
I had thought that the original series said that the Trolls & Preservers evolved over many generations from the animals the High Ones brought with them. Yet the First Comer King seemed to imply that he was one of the original apes that got brought on-board the Palace.
Were they apes?
I had them down as rodents.
I'm sticking with rodents, 'apes' make me uncomfortable.
But Timmain said they were apes
http://elfquest.com/read/index.php?s=OQ/OQ20&p=25
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PostSubject: Re: Some questions about the First Comer Troll King   Wed 23 May 2018 - 8:32

Timmain also stated that trolls ( burrowing apes) and preserves evolved in the star ship. That they both gained speech as well as thought. So the magic of the High Ones did ultimately change those within. The Trolls became willful, while the Preservers became willing helpers.

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Embala

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PostSubject: Re: Some questions about the First Comer Troll King   Wed 23 May 2018 - 11:13

@mojojojo wrote:
But  Timmain said they were apes
http://elfquest.com/read/index.php?s=OQ/OQ20&p=25
Proves that I'm a very visual type - it's easier for me to remenber a picture than written word.

*wonders whether a ground-digging ape might look like a hyrax*

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PostSubject: Re: Some questions about the First Comer Troll King   Mon 28 May 2018 - 12:38

The trolls are actually mining, not digging. But that's probably only a technicality, though.
Rich soil is interesting for a farmer, not a miner

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PostSubject: Re: Some questions about the First Comer Troll King   Mon 28 May 2018 - 18:27

Can "soil" have a more global meaning like ground / earth?
Trolls probably have another view on "soil" than farmers. I've imagined that "rich soil" refer to ore and and minerals and crystals. At least when you are a Troll. ^^

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PostSubject: Re: Some questions about the First Comer Troll King   Mon 28 May 2018 - 20:15

I imagine that their could be a bit of instinctual remembrance. Kind of like a bird's keep returning to the same spots generation after generation and some fish too. That's how I'd explain the remembering even long after leaving the homeworld. It would keep the consistency of the original text and yet make the first comer trolls words accurate in a sense as well.

If you think about it, the fact that some elves, like skywise are drawn by the stars could also be explained this way. He almost seemed to know, without knowing.

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PostSubject: Re: Some questions about the First Comer Troll King   Tue 29 May 2018 - 2:29

Soil would be important to Trolls. Soil would have rocks. Those rocks and soil could tell a Troll much. What type of soil for the purpose of tunneling. I live in an area that has hard panned soil. Meaning there is a lot of clay in the soil, makes digging more difficult. The rocks found could lead to more of precious metals, gems, etc.

Just a little info on rocks and soil.

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