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Leanan

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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Wed May 13, 2015 11:27 am

I love how half the conversation is suddenly about socks! Pike Rolling Pike Rolling Pike Rolling

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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Wed May 13, 2015 11:38 am

I don't remember exactly when but it was right in the wake of your  'discussion.'

And yes, I'm sure they had to tell him but maybe they said "Oh, it's all ready to go now" and then he said "Well, let's go then" instead of "Bwa ha ha, serves the little pests right!" Wink
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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Wed May 13, 2015 1:32 pm

Well, I would not in a million years have had the courage to complain about their publications on the official forum. Artists are almost always fragile, and deserve respect. When faced with something I don't like I would tell myself "If you can't say anything nice, STFU". These people have an hard enough job already. But it was uneasy- I ended up STFU'ing a lot. It was walking on eggs.

But I assume only fellow fans are going to read what I put here, I feel free to be a bit more critical. But I think criticism should still be constructive and reasoned.
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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Wed May 13, 2015 4:08 pm

Figure out the Pinis' internal motivations is above my paygrade. I have always, however (in my admittedly limited contact with them), found Wendy to be a little arrogant and Richard kind of prickly/confrontational. I have plenty of my own faults, however, so I never bothered too much about theirs.

I'm wondering if part of it isn't simply that Elfquest is getting a bigger fanbase now, and that the increase in fans also increases the irritation said fans can cause. They've always courted fans and been welcoming to them; now maybe they're feeling overwhelmed by them.

I'm not excusing their conduct, only trying to extend some grace.

As far as socks are concerned, my daughter seems to have found the perfect solution. She's out on her own now, and last time she bought herself socks, she bought this set without pairs. All of the socks in the set go together more or less, but no two are exactly alike. For instance, one sock will have a picture of a turtle and another a picture of a stork-- but they'll both be gray and black. Or there will be two that are aqua and orange, but one will be more orange and go with other orange ones in the set, while the other one goes the the other aquas in the set. Ingenious!

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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Wed May 13, 2015 4:31 pm

@KR Wordgazer wrote:

I'm wondering if part of it isn't simply that Elfquest is getting a bigger fanbase now, and that the increase in fans also increases the irritation said fans can cause. They've always courted fans and been welcoming to them; now maybe they're feeling overwhelmed by them.  

Which is a very valid point. If you go to Marvel or DC's website - there's little to no user interaction with any other users. You typically have to go to unofficial forums to talk about those comics (and there's plenty of big forums and sites out there that cater to just that!)

I think in the long run, this will be beneficial for them in a PR sense, despite what it feels like at the moment. The chance of them coming across "in a bad light" will be greatly decreased, because there's going to be little to no interaction with them on the forums (so experiences such as I had, or Luna, or anyone else - will eventually dwindle to next to non existent).

Those who miss the official forums, will need to adjust to the new ways! (Or find new places to call home - like here!) Just like Cutter and everyone else did. And High Ones help us all - in the end, perhaps we can all "be friends" again! Smile

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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Wed May 13, 2015 7:00 pm

Trollhammer is the one to thank, for bringing me over to this forum. Or to blame.

GOlden, I also like to do laundry and fold clothes. This is because I like to handle fabric. I used to sew and knit when I was younger and had more time. So we each have a bit of Moonshade in us.

The missing socks are snatched by Harry Potter-type elves who want to be freed from servitude.

As much as I respect the Pinis and enjoy their work, I can't help but notice some sensitivity and defensiveness. Established artists and writers often hone their craft through decades of competition, such as entering contests, and trying to get published, or accepted by a gallery. They become very objective about criticism, and are quick to consider the source. (You think Tom Hanks can just walk down the street, without someone cracking a joke about Forrest Gump or Wilson the volleyball?)

My first WaRP publication was the original four-color graphic novel (Starblaze?), of the first part of the original quest. If you are familiar with four-color printing, the magenta plate was too heavy. Fans complained that the cover was "too red." WaRP acknowledged this, but no one took offense.

Another publication was "Yearnings", a saddle-stitched fanzine. A comic shop owner wrote complaining about the quality being disappointing, and that letter was printed in the letters column. Again, I don't recall any defensiveness on the part of WaRP.

I agree with Stonehowl, that there may be things going on that are of a personal nature, perhaps not for us to know.

Sorry to say that the Scroll of Colors was a golden marketing opportunity, now lost. A high number of "likes" on Facebook does not necessarily translate into solid customer relationships.

Speaking of actors busting their butts, I have to wonder why Hugh Jackman isn't a burnt-out corpse at this point in his career. Being an A-list actor is about as intense and exhausting as being an astronaut.

BTW I am going to engage in fewer political discussions on this forum, as they sometimes lead to hurt feelings. I've only got so many years left in me, and I like to think my posts are better used to brighten someone's day.

Some of you might consider starting a "Trading Post" thread, maybe one for EQ publications and official merchandise, and another for non-WaRP EQ-style merchandise, such as handcrafts and cosplay. I suggest you include a disclaimer that the forum is not liable for any transaction.







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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Wed May 13, 2015 7:19 pm

@KR Wordgazer wrote:
I'm wondering if part of it isn't simply that Elfquest is getting a bigger fanbase now, and that the increase in fans also increases the irritation said fans can cause. They've always courted fans and been welcoming to them; now maybe they're feeling overwhelmed by them.  

I'm not excusing their conduct, only trying to extend some grace.


I do think there is something to be said for the likelihood that they might have needed us as fans before, in a way they don't anymore. They maybe courted their fans because they weren't as aware of how many they had- or weren't as capable of reaching a wider audience as they are now. Ingratiating themselves to fans, forum users in particular, may not be as important at this point. I mean- there were, what? Fifty of us at most? They have over 20,000 likes on their facebook page. They can afford to blow us all off and not even notice.

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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Wed May 13, 2015 7:33 pm

@Trollbabe wrote:

As much as I respect the Pinis and enjoy their work, I can't help but notice some sensitivity and defensiveness....

My first WaRP publication was the original four-color graphic novel (Starblaze?), of the first part of the original quest.  If you are familiar with four-color printing, the magenta plate was too heavy.  Fans complained that the cover was "too red."  WaRP acknowledged this, but no one took offense.
Maybe because the technology was to blame, and they agreed? Yes, I do think they've gotten pretty sensitive lately. Can our comments really be worse than the original backlash to the orgy scene? Maybe. That's giving us a lot of credit. Or maybe they are just tired, at this stage, of performing for the masses.

Quote :
Another publication was "Yearnings", a saddle-stitched fanzine.  A comic shop owner wrote complaining about the quality being disappointing, and that letter was printed in the letters column.  Again, I don't recall any defensiveness on the part of WaRP.
They have consistently printed complaint letters- and responded to them. Maybe the difference is that, whatever response they gave was the last word. On the forum, we answered back and continued a debate. That may have been irritating. But then, that's the nature of a forum.

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Sorry to say that the Scroll of Colors was a golden marketing opportunity, now lost.  A high number of "likes" on Facebook does not necessarily translate into solid customer relationships.
No, but the little responses that they give to people's comments probably do.

Quote :
Speaking of actors busting their butts, I have to wonder why Hugh Jackman isn't a burnt-out corpse at this point in his career.  Being an A-list actor is about as intense and exhausting as being an astronaut.
Because he's super awesome amazing and sexy beyond belief!.. did I say that out loud?

Quote :
BTW I am going to engage in fewer political discussions on this forum, as they sometimes lead to hurt feelings.  I've only got so many years left in me, and I like to think my posts are better used to brighten someone's day.
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Some of you might consider starting a "Trading Post" thread, maybe one for EQ publications and official merchandise, and another for non-WaRP EQ-style merchandise, such as handcrafts and cosplay.  I suggest you include a disclaimer that the forum is not liable for any transaction.
That's a really good idea.

You know what else is a good idea? Krwordgazer's daughter's socks!





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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Wed May 13, 2015 7:33 pm

They don't have a good reputation on tumblr. The post on them with the most notes is the one that talks about their reaction to the blackface debate.
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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Wed May 13, 2015 7:35 pm

@Trollbabe wrote:

I agree with Stonehowl, that there may be things going on that are of a personal nature, perhaps not for us to know.

They didn't tell us. That was pretty overt. If they had given any notice, sure, I might agree. The last time they made changes (every other time in fact) there was plenty of notice. This was not normal. And I don't think it was an accidental oversight. Unless something crashed and burned- and they had to fixed it asap... I think they deliberately chose to do it without warning.

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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Wed May 13, 2015 9:03 pm

@Lunakat wrote:

I do think there is something to be said for the likelihood that they might have needed us as fans before, in a way they don't anymore. They maybe courted their fans because they weren't as aware of how many they had- or weren't as capable of reaching a wider audience as they are now. Ingratiating themselves to fans, forum users in particular, may not be as important at this point. I mean- there were, what? Fifty of us at most? They have over 20,000 likes on their facebook page. They can afford to blow us all off and not even notice.

The problem with "Facebook Likes" - is that you can literally "purchase" Facebook likes to make your page seem more viable. So because it has 20,000 doesn't not mean there's an actual "20,000 people"... But I will say that a lot of forums went away with the rise of Facebook. I used to run a personal forum, that was extremely active, with just about 100 people on it. Every day there was 200 posts, easily. When Facebook came, all those people migrated to Facebook - because it had a way to share thoughts (on your own wall) for more personal things, it had a way to join Groups and/or Pages for your interests and find several people with mutual interests. So my forum went away, another forum I run (on New Warriors) has died down to nothing (lucky to get 10 posts in a week, if that), my other forums (on Neverending Nights and Larry Laffer, I completely shut down due to lack of traffic and large groups existing on FB generating way more traffic). There's a forum I co-admin (Sierra Help), where the owner keeps going back and forth about closing down the forums in favor of Facebook groups (which he created and has more traffic, and wider audience).

So over all, I can see why they would indeed close the forums. Not only does FB provide you with a wider range, it also removes the CONSTANT security risks many forums have (PHPBB, or anything with PHP really). I can't count how many times, despite my best efforts, the Larry Laffer forum was hacked (maybe four or five times in a single year?) And I know the ElfQuest forum was hacked at least twice while I was still a member back then.

So there's plenty of reasons to do away with the forums on the site, if you think about it from a site admin point of view.

Not saying this is why they did it - but saying I can see why, if this was, how it'd be "justified."

(Again, not saying they executed it very well, even if this was the justification...)

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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Wed May 13, 2015 9:42 pm

Maybe it was like pulling off a bandage, and they figured if it was going to be done, they should just do it. That's how I am with hard decisions sometimes. There's a time for gathering information, but once the decision's made, sometimes I don't want to spend any more time considering the alternatives or leaving it open for discussion. You just gotta jump...

I actually think it was a good decision for them. I feel like they were spreading themselves too thin. I certainly sympathize. It seems like from the first update that I was witness to, they were constantly trying to upgrade, and constantly being told how the upgrade fell short. And I'll own my part in it. I was not shy about voicing my criticisms. I figured if I didn't like it and left, I would at least have said why I was going. But I imagine it did get pretty old.

I think it is important to remember that the Pini's are selling a product, and it only makes sense that they would want to control the information that is being distributed on their official sites, and to have that conversation be more one-sided.

But, I also have never been much for idolizing anyone. Everything I've ever seen written about or by the Pini's have given me the feeling that these are people I would not just want to hang out with on a Friday night. So, I kind of agree with this separation of the fans and the creators as being the best thing.

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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Wed May 13, 2015 10:22 pm

I recall Crucent shared my opinion in this thread... http://elfquest.com/forums/discussion/7369/my-great-big-final-vent

Facebook tended to freeze the computer I was using at the time.

BTW I found out a Facebook account is free as long as it isn't used for marketing. I tried to post my logo on an account, and received a warning about it.

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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Wed May 13, 2015 11:52 pm

Like the trading post idea. I make hand crocheted afghans.

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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Thu May 14, 2015 11:19 am

@Trollbabe wrote:

BTW I found out a Facebook account is free as long as it isn't used for marketing.  I tried to post my logo on an account, and received a warning about it.

The reason they do that is because for businesses and what not - they want you to create a Facebook "Page" - this way they can try to entice you to spend money promoting it.
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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Thu May 14, 2015 12:25 pm

I guess even Facebook has a right to try to generate revenue.

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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Thu May 14, 2015 11:29 pm

@Tymber wrote:
@Trollbabe wrote:

BTW I found out a Facebook account is free as long as it isn't used for marketing.  I tried to post my logo on an account, and received a warning about it.

The reason they do that is because for businesses and what not - they want you to create a Facebook "Page" - this way they can try to entice you to spend money promoting it.

This why I want nothing to do with facebook.  I have no intention of creating an acct. and don't want one.

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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Fri May 15, 2015 12:11 am

@G0lden wrote:
@Tymber wrote:
@Trollbabe wrote:

BTW I found out a Facebook account is free as long as it isn't used for marketing.  I tried to post my logo on an account, and received a warning about it.
The reason they do that is because for businesses and what not - they want you to create a Facebook "Page" - this way they can try to entice you to spend money promoting it.
This why I want nothing to do with facebook.  I have no intention of creating an acct. and don't want one.

Well if you have an existing Facebook account (like you created your normal Facebook account for yourself, as you mentioned). That's the only account that's needed. All your Facebook "pages" would link to that account. To be fair, they don't cram it down your throat about spend money and get more likes. It's just off to the side.

(Not that I am defending Facebook - I'd do away with it, if it wasn't such a good source for "promoting" things you're doing - for example, I have a facebook page for the Comic book podcast I do).
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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Fri May 15, 2015 7:44 am

@Tymber wrote:
@Trollbabe wrote:

BTW I found out a Facebook account is free as long as it isn't used for marketing.  I tried to post my logo on an account, and received a warning about it.

The reason they do that is because for businesses and what not - they want you to create a Facebook "Page" - this way they can try to entice you to spend money promoting it.

I have both; a personal account, and a Page for my beaded flowers. Facebook does regularly try to get money from me, but I always ignore that. And it is a nice&simple way to connect with (potential) customers, as long as you post regularly...

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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Fri May 15, 2015 11:28 am

I don't see a problem with Facebook. It's been a nice way for me to keep in touch with old friends and acquaintances I might not otherwise keep up with. I don't understand why some people are so opposed to it.

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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Fri May 15, 2015 11:43 am

@Lunakat wrote:
I don't see a problem with Facebook. It's been a nice way for me to keep in touch with old friends and acquaintances I might not otherwise keep up with. I don't understand why some people are so opposed to it.

Agree with you, I share so much as I like to.

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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Fri May 15, 2015 11:46 am

@Lunakat wrote:
I don't see a problem with Facebook. It's been a nice way for me to keep in touch with old friends and acquaintances I might not otherwise keep up with. I don't understand why some people are so opposed to it.

I am not opposed to it. I am just opposed to it - during specific times. For example, whenever it's Election time - I dislike having everyone's political views crammed down my feed. Or gun control. Or religious debates. Or... Well, at times, people become very passionate about some stance, and you begin to see a different side of them that you may not see in person.
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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Fri May 15, 2015 11:51 am

Tymber, you have more interesting friends than me, all I see is babypictures, work-out statuses, and like-and-share to win stuff....Oh, if not a celebrity does something stupid, then I see some outbursts.

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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Fri May 15, 2015 1:29 pm

I personally nuked my FB a while back due to it being easier to remove myself from what was aggroing me than to remove all the individuals causing it, despite the convenience of a page for my art. Twitter is next on my hit-list. I figure all of the family I actually speak to is local, I do NOT want 99.9% of my coworkers on my FB for multiple, multiple reasons, most of my friends are local, and the rest I have Skype or snail mail, which is fun! (Who doesn't like getting letters?) And the amount of time and effort FB spent trying to get me to buy views for my art page was special levels of annoying.

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PostSubject: Re: So they've basically killed the Scroll of Colors forum...   Fri May 15, 2015 6:19 pm

Some days ago I've asked on EQ.com whether it is possible to get my PMs. I've hoped for a word file in my email box at best. Today I found an as surprising as enlightening reply:

Quote :
Rob on May 14, 2015 You should be able to log in and read them the usual way: try logging in (with your old forum credentials) at http://www.elfquest.com/forums/messages/all

All the PMs from the last forum version are there - nicely wrapped up as they used to be.

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