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Embala

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PostSubject: Intriguing Ingen   9 -  Intriguing Ingen EmptyMon Sep 14, 2015 7:41 pm


Intriguing Ingen
... this was Ingen's thread, opened by Elwing, on the original Scroll of Colors. Follow old discussions and see fanart from earlier times.

Visit Ingen's bio page on Elfquest.com.

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Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: Intriguing Ingen   9 -  Intriguing Ingen EmptyTue Sep 15, 2015 4:04 am

I like the fact that Ingen, and Jarrah, have turned up again for Final Quest. Hope they've gotten to know their granddaughter.






I was so tempted to start a thread for Ingen, naming it Ingen - Mr. Nobody?, which would be a rather sneaky pun on the fact that 'ingen' means 'nobody' in Danish.

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manga

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PostSubject: Re: Intriguing Ingen   9 -  Intriguing Ingen EmptyTue Sep 15, 2015 1:04 pm

Kind of ironic to have a thread for a character most notable by his absence for most of the story. Very Happy
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Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: Intriguing Ingen   9 -  Intriguing Ingen EmptyTue Sep 15, 2015 1:15 pm

Well, over at the Scroll there was a thread for Clearbrook's daughter...
See's mentioned once, maybe twice (can't remember) is long dead and we don't even know her name.

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manga

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PostSubject: Re: Intriguing Ingen   9 -  Intriguing Ingen EmptyTue Sep 15, 2015 1:39 pm

But we know she lived and died. Jarrah and Ingen only showed up in HY #9 - we never even saw them as background characters. Yet Cutter's parents, who have been dead since before the story started, have shown up several times and Leetah's parents are often seen, even if poor Toorah is mostly used to remind us that Suntoucher is blind.

It has struck me as odd for years that we didn't know ANYTHING about Rayek's parents' fate when EQ has been so family-oriented. Parents who are living usually make an appearance, parents who are dead at least get mentioned, if not guest spots. No, not everyone, but enough that the lack of Jarrah and Ingen stood out to me.
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Startear

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PostSubject: Re: Intriguing Ingen   9 -  Intriguing Ingen EmptyTue Sep 15, 2015 2:33 pm

@Redhead Ember wrote:
I was so tempted to start a thread for Ingen, naming it Ingen - Mr. Nobody?, which would be a rather sneaky pun on the fact that 'ingen' means 'nobody' in Danish.

Pike Rolling Priceless Redhead!

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Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: Intriguing Ingen   9 -  Intriguing Ingen EmptyWed Sep 16, 2015 3:19 am

@manga wrote:
But we know she lived and died.  Jarrah and Ingen only showed up in HY #9 - we never even saw them as background characters.  Yet Cutter's parents, who have been dead since before the story started, have shown up several times and Leetah's parents are often seen, even if poor Toorah is mostly used to remind us that Suntoucher is blind.

It has struck me as odd for years that we didn't know ANYTHING about Rayek's parents' fate when EQ has been so family-oriented.  Parents who are living usually make an appearance, parents who are dead at least get mentioned, if not guest spots.  No, not everyone, but enough that the lack of Jarrah and Ingen stood out to me.

Well we know Ingen's name, who his lifemate is and who his son is, can't say we've ever known any of that about Clearbrook's daughter; in fact we don't even know if she ever had a family, other that parents of course.
Now, as of FQ10, we also know that he, and Jarrah, are alive and kicking in the Palace. Figuratively speaking; I don't suppose they're actually kicking anyone.

As for them never being mentioned; it's not like Rayek really cares about them. Yes, EQ is familiy-oriented, but Rayek stopped thinking of them as his family a long time ago; in fact when you think about it Rayek referring to them as "my parents" in FQ10 is actually a bit odd; seems more like a reminder to the reader that those two are Rayek's parents.

---

'Character Bio':

Ingen (m)

Alive (leaving) – immortal
Recognized lifemate of Jarrah
Father of Rayek
Grandfather of Venka


Last edited by Redhead Ember on Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:46 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Trollbabe

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PostSubject: Re: Intriguing Ingen   9 -  Intriguing Ingen EmptySat May 06, 2017 9:26 pm

Rayek and Ingen were the classic example of Dad and son going in completely opposite directions. Rayek dismissed his father as a "dirt-digger", even though the survival of the village depended upon agriculture. Rayek became so ambitious that he trampled other Elves in his path.

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manga

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PostSubject: Re: Intriguing Ingen   9 -  Intriguing Ingen EmptySat May 06, 2017 11:17 pm

I still think it tells against Jarrah and Ingen that they were never in the background, not even when Rayek first brought the Palace to Sorrow's End.

Someone once said I was accusing Ingen of "failing to be a proper father for my god" but I accuse him of failing to be a proper father, period. Ember got snotty with Cutter. Sunstream is absolutely not what Cutter expected in a son. In neither case did he let them go. Ingen and Jarrah, by the evidence we have, washed their hands of their son when he was 11 years old.
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Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: Intriguing Ingen   9 -  Intriguing Ingen EmptySun May 07, 2017 4:08 am

I think Ingen and Jarrah's failing was that they'd lived for centuries in a society in which people were expecting to be one thing, and one thing only: farmers. So, when they ended up having a son that was anything but, and didn't have the accept things as they are mentality of the other Villagers - seen as recently* as the zwoot stampede - they simply did not know what to do.
Whereas the Wolfriders always seemed to have much more of a let people be what they are (as long as it doesn't blatantly bring the tribe in danger), so Cutter was much better geared for a son that was anything but what he'd expected.
Yes, they - Jarrah and Ingen - stopped taking care of him when he was 11, otoh; he also made it pretty clear that he didn't feel like he needed them anymore.


@Trollbabe wrote:
Rayek and Ingen were the classic example of Dad and son going in completely opposite directions. Rayek dismissed his father as a "dirt-digger", even though the survival of the village depended upon agriculture. Rayek became so ambitious that he trampled other Elves in his path.

At the same time it's also pretty clear that Ingen regarding hunting as something you'd do only if there was no other option for food, not caring that Rayek actually liked it. It would be as if the Wolfriders considered foraging for roots, nuts and berries as something only done when there was no prey, even if some of the Wolfriders quite liked doing that - and they found the food tasty.





*Yeah... 10,000 years ago isn't exactly recent, but... ya know...

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Trollbabe

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PostSubject: Re: Intriguing Ingen   9 -  Intriguing Ingen EmptySun May 14, 2017 8:38 pm

Maybe Rayeks' parents weren't in the picture much because Rayek became Savah's pupil.

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Miss Gillespie

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PostSubject: Re: Intriguing Ingen   9 -  Intriguing Ingen EmptyMon May 15, 2017 5:55 am

No matter how independent a child is, you don't stop taking care when s/he is still a child. If one cannot take care, ask someone else to do it.

Unless the authors wanted to present Rayek's parents as neglient (and therefore Rayek as the victim of child abuse), I'm assuming that his parents were never supposed to ever appear in a story. For Hidden Years the authors had to came up with a reason why they never showed up before.

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Evil Evie

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PostSubject: Re: Intriguing Ingen   9 -  Intriguing Ingen EmptyMon May 15, 2017 10:16 am

I always imagined that it was Rayek who pushed his parents away in an attempt to be more independant and better than them. Makes it really hard to be a decent parent to a kid that avoids you.

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Shadowpath

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PostSubject: Re: Intriguing Ingen   9 -  Intriguing Ingen EmptyMon May 15, 2017 10:23 am

I gotta say,  I think they stuck to a way they knew and didn’t like even thinking about doing things differently because so many things could go wrong if they did.


The reason for them not being in the background might simply be because they first showed up in the HY issue in 1993. The Kings issue is from 1990.
 Wendy might simply not have designed them at the time. Or maybe she had them listed as having died at some point.

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Miss Gillespie

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PostSubject: Re: Intriguing Ingen   9 -  Intriguing Ingen EmptyMon May 15, 2017 10:52 am

@Evil Evie wrote:
I always imagined that it was Rayek who pushed his parents away in an attempt to be more independant and better than them. Makes it really hard to be a decent parent to a kid that avoids you.
I know for sure in Germany, and I'm pretty sure also in the US, there are state departments, which will take your children away and give them to foster care, if you don't take care of them. If you neglect your child, it will have legal consequences, even if the child tells the authorities "I can take care of my own".
An 11 year old is a child.

You could argue, that elves are elves and not humans, but I would argue, that if EQ elves weren't like us, we couldn't relate and the story would be meaningless.

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Evil Evie

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PostSubject: Re: Intriguing Ingen   9 -  Intriguing Ingen EmptyMon May 15, 2017 11:15 am

I really doubt they neglected him completely, I'm sure they kept an eye on him, but if Rayne did push them away it would have been difficult. Perhaps they or someone else suggested that Savah take over as his mentor, which could be seen as a form of "state authority" in their world.

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PostSubject: Re: Intriguing Ingen   9 -  Intriguing Ingen EmptyMon May 15, 2017 11:20 am

@Evil Evie wrote:
I always imagined that it was Rayek who pushed his parents away in an attempt to be more independant and better than them. Makes it really hard to be a decent parent to a kid that avoids you.
I agree with this.
I get the feeling Rayek wanted much more than anybody else and made his own way.

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manga

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PostSubject: Re: Intriguing Ingen   9 -  Intriguing Ingen EmptyMon May 15, 2017 11:50 am

I get that it's hard to keep a family together when the kid is not cooperating. But as a kid, he is not competent to make that choice. And it's one thing to allow your child to make their own life choices as long as they are safe (which, to be fair, being fostered by Savah counts as) but another thing to completely efface yourself from his life.
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Embala

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PostSubject: Re: Intriguing Ingen   9 -  Intriguing Ingen EmptyMon May 15, 2017 2:22 pm

@Evil Evie wrote:
I really doubt they neglected him completely, I'm sure they kept an eye on him, but if Rayne did push them away it would have been difficult. Perhaps they or someone else suggested that Savah take over as his mentor, which could be seen as a form of "state authority" in their world.
This.

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Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: Intriguing Ingen   9 -  Intriguing Ingen EmptyTue May 16, 2017 12:31 pm

Yeah, we don't know exactly when they stepped completely out of his life. Nothing wrong with them not showing up during the Trial in the beginning of OQ, or during the Reunion in the beginning of KoBW. Rayek was 600+ years at the time, he probably neither needed nor wanted their involvement.

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PostSubject: Re: Intriguing Ingen   9 -  Intriguing Ingen EmptyTue May 16, 2017 4:23 pm

I was thinking more of Savah's house being like a school, where young Rayek spent his days, then went home to a warm bed and a hearty supper of squat-needle soup.

The Sun Village had enough caves to accommodate the Wolfriders when they appeared. So maybe Rayek, "child of the rocks", moved into the caves at some point.

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