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 Final Quest #23

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jaRf

jaRf

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyFri Dec 15, 2017 9:26 am

Mender looks crazily happy to fight... and there's armour again. And rock-shields.
Humm. I wonder what events they'll be squeezing in that issue.
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Anduinel

Anduinel

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyFri Dec 15, 2017 3:40 pm

Anyone else ever feel like we know a lot more about what "The Way" isn't than what it actually is? It feels a lot like a catch-all excuse some days. "No, you can't wear that, cubling! Argyle is not The Way!"

While I'm pretty sure I understand the logic behind holding off on the big fight until the Palace is gone (they could only dodge why the elves couldn't use it so many times, I guess), this still feels a bit like an anti-climax already. The big emotions have already been spent, and it's all downhill from here, no matter how many characters die in the next 40 pages.
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Embala

Embala

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyFri Dec 15, 2017 6:42 pm

So far I like demonic Mender best - and Jellykin least.

For me his dreamy scene with Cutter and Leetah and the song seems weird against the fighting happening aparently at the same time. I'm curious how it will fit in the complete story.

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Miss Gillespie

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyMon Dec 18, 2017 10:24 am

Anduiel is right, this feels so anti-climatic. This issue is going to have one big battle (on 24 pages, though*), some are going to go down (my guess is Mender: this "I'll come soon" sounds like 'he never will' and we can have sad Dart thinking about slaughtering).

I didn't like how this one Go Back spoke about letting the Go Backs bleed instead of the Wolfriders. In OQ, I got the impression that fighting and potentially dying was part of a Go Backs life, but dying wasn't the sole purpose. Mainly I read this sentence as "let us be the red shirts"

*the final issue is about the return of the palace, so all the conflict is about to be solved in #23

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Embala

Embala

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyMon Dec 18, 2017 6:32 pm

That's pretty much my problem with Go-Back attitude .... Rolling Eyes

They started out with: We're not affraid to die to reach an important goal!
... went to: Where's a purpose to die for?
... and ended up with: Cool, there's an opportunity to seek death!

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Multi-Facets

Multi-Facets

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyMon Dec 18, 2017 6:55 pm

Well, at least Mirff left behind a fawn, like Skot claimed was so important. :-/

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Wisp

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyTue Dec 19, 2017 4:38 am

It's always such a mixed bag with FQ. The art's pretty nice in these pages I love seeing Leetah in warm colors. They suit her. It's the writing that lets FQ down every time. Ember's little speech to the Wolfriders feels pretty callous: "The Go-Backs are willing to be red-shirts; we actually-important Wolfriders are going to just kick back with some hunting and howling." Also, I get the sentimental reason for invoking Moonshade but...she literally quit the way and wanted to stop hunting and howling so badly she was poised to leave the planet.

Teir is more worried about deer welfare than the Go-Backs' lives, apparently. The Go-Backs' entire attitude devalues them even as emotional props for the story. They don't care if they die or not, so why should their sacrifice have any impact on the reader? They might as well have vanished with the palace, they're narrative null set. Also, why do they care less about losing family and friends than Wolfriders do? It's (for lack of a better word) dehumanizing. And like Embala said, it's a gross distortion of the OQ Go-Back culture.

I agree with Miss Gillespie that Mender may die in this issue. In part, I think it's more likely due to Wendy's age and what I can gather about her relative disconnect from contemporary critiques of LGBTQ+ characters/relationships. Wendy definitely considers herself progressive, and I think there's been a lot of slapping of her own back about including the Dart/Mender relationship in FQ, but I'd lay good money on her not being aware that "tragic gay romance" is a pretty maligned trope in 2017.

Mender's bloodthirst is the most interesting thing about him for me. I still don't get what Dart sees in him as a lifemate, since Dart is such a chivalrous stickler for the Way. I could see how Mender's contradictions might fascinate Dart, sort of a sexy bad boy type. That ever felt like the basis for a long-lasting, healthy relationship, but whatever. They're a pretty shallowly conceived couple anyways.

So the humans have rudimentary grenades and...wrist darts? The grenades I can see being scary, but a gun has to be more impressive than a glorified blow dart.




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Anduinel

Anduinel

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyTue Dec 19, 2017 9:41 pm

Quote :
Wendy definitely considers herself progressive, and I think there's been a lot of slapping of her own back about including the Dart/Mender relationship in FQ, but I'd lay good money on her not being aware that "tragic gay romance" is a pretty maligned trope in 2017.

If she isn't, it's willful ignorance. She certainly got criticism for it when she did her take on Masque of the Red Death.
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September

September

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyTue Dec 19, 2017 11:16 pm

Given that Shushen bit it during a scuffle over the Little Palace, it seems given that either Dart or Mender is going down now. My guess would be that it's Dart, and that it'll send Mender over the edge of Winnowill-dom.

And then he'll realise his mistake three panels later, get killed, and their spirit reunion is going to be very anticlimatic. On the upside, Strongbow will live forever as a meme.

(or IDK, something might be made out of Kimo's place in Dart's life and his obvious distress on the cover, which would be a pleasant surprise indeed)
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Bluetree

Bluetree

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyWed Dec 20, 2017 5:41 am

Okay, so I'm dense or whatever (actually, I've just got one foot well out the door in regards to EQ), but...

Dark Send Just when did this issue get bumped into next month? Dark Send

I give exactly zero rolling rat's asses as to why. Any excuses Wendy et. al. might cough up at this point would be lamer than "the dog ate my homework"; that "bank account" became overdrawn a long time ago.

I thought overly-fluid release dates had been dealt with, and that we peasants could finally expect some reliability as to when the remaining FQ issues would drop?

I am SO done with this series. Hungry Wolf What an insult to OQ and everything it stood for!
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jaRf

jaRf

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 21, 2017 9:05 am

Was it postponed? Iirc. it's something like 3rd of January and the last one on 28th of February. 3rd of Jan. doesn't sound like a strange date to me. That should be the date where it is expected to be delivered in bulks to the stores and resellers. With Christmas and New Years in this time that is a tight schedule.
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Zinegirl

Zinegirl

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptySat Dec 23, 2017 1:29 am

No they made a mistake it's still December 28th

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jaRf

jaRf

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyMon Dec 25, 2017 12:36 pm

@Bluetree wrote:
I give exactly zero rolling rat's asses as to why. Any excuses Wendy et. al. might cough up at this point would be lamer than "the dog ate my homework"; that "bank account" became overdrawn a long time ago.
I thought overly-fluid release dates had been dealt with, and that we peasants could finally expect some reliability as to when the remaining FQ issues would drop?
I am SO done with this series. Hungry Wolf What an insult to OQ and everything it stood for!

As far as I see it it's back now on Dec. 27th on TFAW.

While I do not welcome all of the things FQ brought (some strange character decisions..., hurried storywriting, jumps in time. different styles), I think it would be a bit exaggerated to be so upset because of a possible 5 day delay. Especially when it is between Christmas and New Year, where 50% of the western world is on holiday. Also 5 days is not that much when one considers larger projects. I can compile an long list of things that got delayed, some for years, or that ended up much more expensive than ever planned. Wink

For me I got to wait til TFAW receives, then ships out internationally (could be about a week for this issue) and then wait for the international shipment to take place, customs (no fees, but they still have to place their stamp on it) and finally local logistics that seems constantly overchallenged with all the parcels. That usually makes it a month from official publication until I hold it in my hands...
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Bluetree

Bluetree

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyMon Dec 25, 2017 8:59 pm

That's a long wait, added to an already-long wait. Ugh!

Yes, I see that the date's been changed back. Zinegirl was right-- must've been a mistake.

My consternation stemmed from deviation from what we were told were going to be firm release dates (after far too many "newbie" mistakes): an issue every two months until the overly-drawn-out end.

Usually I handle delays, especially occasional ones, in a Dudeist manner. Cool However, FQ has been one steaming slab of drama after another, a lot of it seemingly contrived (which is something I detest). That plus the rushed and copy-pasted manner of the series, plus W&R's rather immature treatment of longtime fans, adds up to what feels like desecration of a title that used to be a major touchstone for me.

All of that together gets my redhead up, and there have been very few salves along the way. So while I'm normally pretty chill IRL, my sentiment toward FQ-- and therefore the majority of my posts here-- have been tetchy. I humbly apologize for that coming off as the major impression, but not for any words I've said in the past (or will in the future).  Wink
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manga

manga

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 28, 2017 4:13 am

Well it's out (on time) and I've got it.

I think it says something that no one else has posted yet. It used to be that people would start discussing it as soon as it was in their hands - which meant the day before for those folks would had the digital subscription.

Cons:
Lyrical as Wendy's art is, song-writing is not her strength. Leetah's lullaby doesn't work very well and serves mostly as a very didactic framing device.

I'm not comfortable with the "all the djunsmen merit summary slaughter" treatment. What are they, the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah? What happened to cherishing every living thing? That they all get slaughtered makes sense as fortunes of war but the way the narration writes them ALL of is creepy to me.

Pro:
Dewshine's threat to unbirth Windkin. Even the elves have a variant on the "I brought you into this world and I can take you out" comment. Lol!

The interplay of Leetah, Strongbow and Cutter. Cutter is not on the elfin couch tonight because Strongbow played the bad guy for him. Snort!
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Zadzi

Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 28, 2017 4:57 am

Hmm. Gonna wait for this to be available free online at my usual place.

Sooo, who died? Anyone interesting? Was it Kimo? Who really was one of the most interesting ones in terms of unique choices made, along with Shenshen?

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Anduinel

Anduinel

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 28, 2017 8:23 am

@manga wrote:
I'm not comfortable with the "all the djunsmen merit summary slaughter" treatment. What are they, the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah? What happened to cherishing every living thing? That they all get slaughtered makes sense as fortunes of war but the way the narration writes them ALL of is creepy to me.

That's been more of a thing since FQ started, though, hasn't it? With Windkin murdering any human that came near Sorrow's End and Skywise and Leetah just kind of shrugging instead of acting like he needed rehab ASAP?
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Miss Gillespie

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 28, 2017 9:59 am

When have the humans in EQ ever been anything else than two-dimensional*? They either are worshipper of the elves and therefore good or the are enemies and have no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

That scene where Strongow tries to hold back Leetah shows, that Wendy is not the master artist some claim her to be. I took me a while to realise, that he is using his bow to block her way; I was wondering why he held it so uncomfortably.






*admittedly, that big leader in OQ might have been a tad more nuanced

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manga

manga

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 28, 2017 1:41 pm

Yes Kimo died. With more of that "dropping a life is nothing more than dropping a feather" pap.

Can I just say that feathers are regrown? And losing a feather does not usually leave your friends in a dire situation without your help?
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Anduinel

Anduinel

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 28, 2017 2:52 pm

This is my shocked face. :/

But I half expected it. Wendy always did get catty when fans didn't fall in line with her interpretation of things. Whatever. Canon is a jumping off point, and Elfquest has made ignoring canon reeeeally easy the last few years.


Last edited by Anduinel on Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Stargazer

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 28, 2017 2:53 pm

I thought the whole ‘surrender only at the foot of the Father Tree’ scenario was kind of ridiculous. Why would the elves allow a defeated enemy to dictate terms of their surrender? It sounded suspicious as hell to me and quite a contrived way to get to what happened. Also I was disappointed but not surprised that the massive army that has been the threatliest threat ever came down to a few dozen men. Telling us that it has been whittled away is a cop out.

Given the cover art for ish 24 I’m not particularly alarmed about Leetah.
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Stargazer

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 28, 2017 3:02 pm

I thought the whole ‘surrender only at the foot of the Father Tree’ scenario was kind of ridiculous. Why would the elves allow a defeated enemy to dictate terms of their surrender? It sounded suspicious as hell to me and quite a contrived way to get to what happened. Also I was disappointed but not surprised that the massive army that has been the threatliest threat ever came down to a few dozen men. Telling us that it has been whittled away is a cop out.

Given the cover art for ish 24 I’m not particularly alarmed about Leetah.
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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 28, 2017 5:11 pm

I'm really annoyed about Kimo getting killed off, it seems tacky and unnecessary.

lol dropping a life is no more than a dropping a feather? Seriously? Sounds like bird droppings.

Why is Wendy repeatedly calling the warring humans 'suicide bombers' on the FB page? That's really weird, because I kind of regarded the Go Backs the same way.

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Anduinel

Anduinel

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 28, 2017 5:45 pm

@Zadzi wrote:
Why is Wendy repeatedly calling the warring humans 'suicide bombers' on the FB page? That's really weird, because I kind of regarded the Go Backs the same way.

It's also pretty gross, but par for the course, I guess. At least this ugly nonsense is almost over.
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manga

manga

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #23   Final Quest #23 - Page 2 EmptyThu Dec 28, 2017 6:39 pm

She's saying that because that's what they did. It's why they insisted on surrendering at the base of the Father Tree.

I have trouble with that scene too. Admittedly they probably thought there wasn't anything else the humans could do but why bring your enemies so close to the place you have stashed your life-bearer for safe keeping?
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