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Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptyTopic: Elfquest and the Lack of Cake
Davrille

Replies: 8
Views: 879

Search in: ElfQuest Comic Discusions   Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptySubject: Elfquest and the Lack of Cake    Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptyWed Dec 07, 2016 4:02 pm
This is an essay I wrote for the Livejournal community "elfquest" back in 2006. I found it poking around an old fanclub email list, and thought some folks might find it interesting.

Elfquest and the Lack of Cake

Part One
Some months ago, I ordered copies of the original comic series: the last four issues. Purely for nostalgia. A few weeks after that, I was talking with a friend of mine** about writing and characterization, and she used Elfquest as an example of a story having an "icing" layer, and a "cake" layer. The "icing" is the obvious story; the "cake" is the deeper meaning and questions the author has put into the story. Up until the last five issues, June said, the comic had a hefty chunk of "cake" to go with the "icing". After that, however, the "cake" disappeared.

I asked her what she meant. She brought up the deeper detail the novel /Journey to Sorrow's End/ went into, and then, to my surprise, the orgy.

Why? I asked

Her answer: because it was completely contradictory to the sexual mores Wendy had set up in the previous issues.

Up until issue #17, there was no indication the elves, particularly the Wolfriders and Sunfolk, had orgies. There was no indication the elves joined with anyone except their lifemates after lifemating. Before lifemating, yes. This was even mentioned in an interview Wendy did "in character" as Skywise and Cutter for a 'zine back in the 1980s: there was no sense of shame or impropriety if Foxfur, say, wanted to be with Skywise one night, and someone else the next.

Having multiple lifemates doesn't count.(As Savah said, "though it is not a common practice, others in the village have taken more than one mate!") The implication is still you're supposed to be monogamous with the people to whom you're lifemated. And later, in /JtSE/ Leetah thinks, "And unbreakable alliances tend to limit one's freedom."

Finally, Dewshine's Recognition to Tyldak. The obstacle isn't simply the mutual dislike between the two, it's the expectation that she'll lifemate with him. But if joining with someone other than one's lifemate(s) -- even once -- is acceptable, why was there a problem? Cultural expecations? Possibly. I'd argue (as June did) that part of those cultural expectations was monogamous lifemating.

That changed in issue 17, with no build-up, and very little follow-up reflection from the elves.

Why?

I think Wendy was tired. It was the last leg of the race, and from comments in the newsletters and letters column about having to remind herself that "this(the comic) is fun. I'm having fun.", she just wanted to get it done. On top of that, IIRC she was having problems with her health, too, at that time.

An understandable feeling. But I miss the cake.

Part Two

I'm going to start in the original series, then jump around to the later ones, for reasons that will become clear.


Besides the orgy, June mentioned the Go-Backs and Two-Edge as being part of the lack of cake in the last five issues of the original series. She didn't go into detail as she had with the orgy, as we got talking about again about the desire to just wrap something up and Be Done With It. Since then, however, and especially since writing part one of this essay, I've reread the the last five issues, and I think I have an idea of what she meant.


For June, Two-Edge was a letdown. He wasn't, in the end, the cool, mysterious character Wendy had painted since issue seven. He was just insane.

I can see her argument. It isn't until SaBM and later Shards that we see anything more to Two-Edge than the insane master smith who has, as one wag said in the letter column of issue #20, "one heck of a way of flipping a coin!" Unfortunately, even in Shards (and the brief glimpse of Two-Edge in Jink) he seems to become the maniacal madman whenever the plot needs it, whether it makes sense or not.


As with Two-Edge, no real detail here from June, just the comment that the Go-Backs didn't get the amount of "cake" beneath the "frosting" that the other tribes did. In my recent re-reading, I noticed something that led me to agree with her. With the other tribes, there's some indication in the story, verbal or nonverbal, that the tribe's way of life and philosophy has its good and bad points.

The peace offered by the Sun Village allows Redlance to manifest his plantshaping magic. In issue 6, Cutter says that "Some of you, like Rainsong here, have almost become Sun Folk yourselves!" In issue 8, Nightfall says Leetah has the right to raise the twins according to her own customs. The downside of the Sun Folk's culture becomes clear in the next issue, and is voiced aloud by Leetah later on: the Sun Folk had become too dependent on Leetah's healing, and that dependence had weakened them.

Because of how they're introduced, and Winnowill's machinations afterward, the Gliders are portrayed as being Bad Guys right from the start. Clues that the tribe isn't so one-side are subtle. That they've made a peace (to their advantage, but peace nonetheless) with the local humans the Ho'an G'tay Sho is only briefly touched on, as is the level of comfort and artistry they live with. Even Skywise says, "Blue Mountain /is/ a world of its own -- and it's fantastic!" His statement that Brace, Door and Egg have "become what they do" is wrong was explained in a latter issue's letter column as being the Wolfriders' perspective -- not necessarily the authors' statement.

The Go-Backs don't get anything like this.

Though we're told the Wolfriders "soon discover that they have much in common with their hardy hosts", that's the closest to a positive trait the Go-Backs are given. There's only one acknowledgement from the Wolfriders that their pragmatic, unsentimental view of war is necessary: when Cutter prevents Leetah from healing one of the ambushed trolls.

The brutality of war aside, the Go-Backs aren't given nods for any traits unconnected with fighting. They're adaptable, often in ways the other tribes aren't. They're the one tribe able to breed consistently without Recognition. They've managed to carve out homes in a harsh
climate without the aid of magic. They tan and dye leather, domestitcated elk, learned to work metal enough to make "daggered horns" for their elk. The only thing that comes close to this is Kahvi's question to Clearbrook: "Who knows how good the being is, once this armor, the body, is laid aside?"

In the original series, the Go-Backs got the short end of the stick, I think. In the series to follow, it gets worse. They're made into Wolfriders-sans-wolfblood, "redeemed" by being Two-Spear's Revenge, but with far less brains and collective personality. This idea not only shortchanges the Go-Backs, but makes the idea of removing wolf-blood commonplace, undercutting the horror that was supposed to be in Winnowill's "purification" of Windkin in SaBM. When all's said and done, I think Warp would been better to stick to the original timeline printed in issue #21: the elk-followers who would become the Go-Backs began long before Timmain became a wolf.

And then there's Kahvi. As chief of the Go-Backs, she had the most characterization of the tribe in the original series: the most "cake" out of all them, if you will. Kahvi wasn't my favorite character, but I thought she was an interesting foil to Cutter, Savah and Winnowill alike. Then, in the following series, specifically the horrid _Kahvi_miniseries, her character is sliced, diced, practically turned into Julian fries, and only "redeemed" by acknowledging her wolf-blood. Kathy told me in a conversation once, "That's not the character I fell in love with."

That's not the character I found interesting, either.
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptyTopic: Final Quest #17
Wisp

Replies: 391
Views: 10027

Search in: ElfQuest Comic Discusions   Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptySubject: Final Quest #17    Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptyFri Dec 02, 2016 1:51 pm
Well, I think this is it for me. I read all the previous issues, even downloaded them early using the darkhorse app when I wasn't enjoying them very much. This time...forgot the new issue was even coming out. I've been reading all the great discussion, but I just can't bring myself to download #17. Maybe I've finally reached the threshold of my fan loyalty.

I'll just say, I agree 100% about what's been said about the hero's journey/Campbellian element of FQ. The Pinis are absolutely hamstrung by it. The hero's journey is not intended as a story outline or a blueprint. When creators try to use it in that way, they start peddling in allegories, self-conscious mythology. That's not unprecedented. It happened big time with the Star Wars prequels. Intuitive storytellers naturally tap the well of myth and tropes in a fresh, authentic, unstudied way. But when you start to think of yourself less as a storyteller than a "myth-maker" or "truth-speaker" the story can start to feel manufactured and forced. That's what I've seen in FQ, and it's what I've heard in Wendy and Richard's discussion of their intentions. It's a shame, IMO.
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptyTopic: Final Quest #17
manga

Replies: 391
Views: 10027

Search in: ElfQuest Comic Discusions   Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptySubject: Final Quest #17    Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptyTue Nov 29, 2016 11:00 am
You make good points, Redhead Ember, but I can't accept the idea that what the mother wants totally trumps what the father wants. Not for no better reasoning than that she's the mother and he's not.

Getting back to the events of #17, I would say Cutter is more one-in-two than two-in-one. There were three wolves in that pit in the Frozen Mountains. We know what happened with Timmain and Warfrost. What if the third is Timmorn? I remember that one of the BoTC stories had Timmain helping Timmorn to become more wolf. What if that (or leaving him in the Troll Mountain) is the ancient wrong?
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptyTopic: Final Quest #17
Embala

Replies: 391
Views: 10027

Search in: ElfQuest Comic Discusions   Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptySubject: Final Quest #17    Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptySat Nov 12, 2016 3:10 pm
Thanks for the heradsup, Prism! Smile

Here's the link to the FQ #17 preview.
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptyTopic: Final Quest #17
LurkingCat

Replies: 391
Views: 10027

Search in: ElfQuest Comic Discusions   Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptySubject: Final Quest #17    Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptyWed Sep 14, 2016 4:35 am
Another classic Elfmom tease from the EQ Facebook group:

Quote :
That scene you've been hoping for? I think chances may be real good it's in Final Quest issue #17


What scene are we hoping for?!

A long time I hoped for recognition between Timmain and Skywise, but since FQ I find her behavior kinda creepy and sinister. And the whole Tim-Tam-Thing is also very disturbing for me...
Or did Timmain/Skywise already fulfill recognition in their joining? It's a little unclear for me because she tells Cutter "Our soul's brother Fahr also recognized Tam. But only in joining skins with Timmain MAY his unspoken yearning for a child of recognition BE answered!" So it didn't happen yet? scratch
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptyTopic: Final Quest #17
Embala

Replies: 391
Views: 10027

Search in: ElfQuest Comic Discusions   Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptySubject: Final Quest #17    Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptySun Sep 11, 2016 5:35 pm
From the FB Public Group:
Wendi Pini wrote:
All's well, here. Just pluggin' away at Final Quest ish #17. Some HUGE stuff happens in this one, but in very subtle ways. More than one reading will definitely be required.
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptyTopic: Final Quest #12
Wisp

Replies: 693
Views: 12680

Search in: ElfQuest Comic Discusions   Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptySubject: Final Quest #12    Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptyFri Nov 13, 2015 11:41 pm
I don't like this, and I'm still convinced this is an elaborate retcon, however...

As to the question of why Timmain and the wolves were in the pit, that's answered in OQ #17. The pit was a trap created by Two-Edge, presumably created to catch....elves? animals? I'm not totally sure, but we know that Two-Edge made it, that the hatch was located near the Go-Back lodge, that wolves were purposefully kept in the pit to kill/maim whatever fell in, and that the trolls were responsible for feeding the wolves and keeping them alive. This all seems like an elaborate way to catch and kill an elf or two, but whatever. It obviously didn't give me too much pause at the time....

But that was before I knew this trap had not caught anyone or anything for 30 years. The troll guards in issue 17 say that Two-Edge's "newest trap" has finally been sprung and that the wolves will "earn their keep." So...Two-Edge's "newest" creation is 30 years old? Wouldn't they rather say something like "Did you even remember that Two-Edge made this old thing?" Are we really to believe that the trolls were feeding the trapped wolves for 30 years in the hopes that an elf or two would someday fall into the pit (because the trap can really only be sprung once. After that all the Go-Backs would know about it.) Sheesh.

The FQ plotline was not a glimmer of a thought during the OQ. The fact the Wendy and Richard expect us to believe otherwise is sort of insulting to our intelligence as fans.
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptyTopic: Final Quest #12
Davrille

Replies: 693
Views: 12680

Search in: ElfQuest Comic Discusions   Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptySubject: Final Quest #12    Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptyFri Nov 13, 2015 9:53 pm
@Lunakat wrote:
Wendy just said this on Facebook:

"Wendy here: 30 years is a substantial amount of time to us humans. But what's 30 years to trolls? Maybe the Frozen Mountain trolls noticed the other pit wolves dying off from age or disease and having to be replaced. But not knowing how long wolves live, they wouldn't take particular notice of one pit wolf living 30 years."

So I guess the trolls were collecting wolves for some reason.


*headdesk* That's just stupid. Why not go with the "spirits can be in two places at once, even outside of time, so Timmain's soul went back in time to become Cutter" rationale? Yeah, it's o.O-worthy but it uses what they already set up and doesn't make the trolls stupid or require more retconning.

Are they going to change the text of any potential future reprints of the OQ to make it so the trolls were capturing wolves previously? In #17 they say outright they had made sure to starve the wolves they captured, meaning the three in the pit!

*headdesk headdesk headdesk*
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptyTopic: Redhead Plays with Emoticons - Contains Spoilers
Embala

Replies: 200
Views: 5952

Search in: ElfQuest FanArt and FanFiction   Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptySubject: Redhead Plays with Emoticons - Contains Spoilers    Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptyFri Oct 16, 2015 10:03 am
@Redhead Ember wrote:
5. Pretty sure Rayek never captured Ekuar

7. It's connected to 6. No characters missing.

17. Just the rescue Group in Final Quest 5. Kahvi Tyldak Krim Grin Skot went along for the ride.

Nah, he Rayek Devil just picked him Ekuar off the ground. Troll Tongue

#5. should count as a typo! XD

#7. ... I give up - unless I'll have an enlightening dream

#17. Close enough for me. ^^

This was FUN, Redhead! Very Happy
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptyTopic: REFERENCE : MAGIC IN ELFQUEST
PCoquelin

Replies: 0
Views: 3780

Search in: ElfQuest Comic Discusions   Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptySubject: REFERENCE : MAGIC IN ELFQUEST    Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptyTue Sep 08, 2015 10:41 am
Here, for reference, I shall gather and present the exact and distinct scenes of magic-use, up to 'The Discovery'.
I will show only the scenes drawn by Wendy, because her work should have precedence..
..and because they are necessarily 'canon'.


Original Quest - #1 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P01_Gliding_HighOne : Gliding (High One)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P02_Sending_WolfSend : Sending (Wolf Send)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P03_Sending_GroupSend : Sending (Group Send : call)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P04_Sending_GroupVisionSharing : Sending (Group Send : Sharing a vision

Original Quest - #2 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P05_Sending_IndividualCall : Sending (Individual call)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P06_Recognition : Recognition
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P07_HypnoticTranceonelf : Hypnotic trance (on elf)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P08_EmotionFeeling : Emotion feeling
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P09_Healing : Healing
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P10_LightControl : Light control

Original Quest - #3 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P11_ShapeChanging_OnObject_PossibleMindManipulation : Very probable shape-changing magic highly charged on object (the 'Great Sun' item behind Savah shows changing patterns) - possible mind manipulation
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P12_Levitation_OnObject : Levitation (on object)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P13_HypnoticTrance_OnAnimal : Hypnotic trance (on animal)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P14_Levitation_OnAnimal : Levitation (on animal)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P15_PossibleTruthTelling : Possible Truth-telling
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P16_Sending_MindProbe : Mind Probe
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt INFO_SelfLevitationThoughtLost : Information : self-levitation was thought to be a lost power, among the Sun Folk

Original Quest - #4 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P17_Sending_DarkSend : Sending (Dark Send)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P18_PossibleEmotionControl_OrEvenMore : Possible emotion control (or more)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt INFO_PoolOfStagnantMagic : Information : Magic can stagnate and turn into a monstruosity
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P19_MagicBornMonster_CombinationOfPowers : Magic monster (COMBINING powers)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P20_Sending_SpecialCall : Sending (Special, intense, intimate call)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P21_Sending_SpecialCall_ByMonster : Sending (Special call, by monster)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P22_ProbableWatchingOver : Probable Watching over (by a dead elf, over a living one)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P23_ResistanceToDarkSend : Resistance to Dark Send

Original Quest - #5 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P24_PlantGrowth : Plant Growth
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P24_SoulName : Soul Name
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P25_TelescopicVision : Telescopic Vision
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P26_MindControl_OnAnimal : Mind Control (on animal, pretended
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P26_MindControl_OnAnimal_Confirmed : Mind Control (on animal, confirmed)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P27_28_MindSearch_VisualProjection : Mind Search + Visual Projection + Voice Projection (probable - or a special form of Sending)

Original Quest - #6 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P29_GoingOut : 'Going Out'
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P30_31_PlantControl_MagicFeeling : Plant Control + Magic Feeling
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P32_Sending_LockSend_Challenge : Sending (Lock-Send - Challenge

Original Quest - #7 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P33_TreeShaping : Tree Shaping
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P34_Sending_FromElfToWolf : Sending (from elf to wolf)

Original Quest - #8 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P35_MagicFeeling_Faint : Magic Feeling (faint - familiar setting)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P35_MagicFeeling_Faint2 : Magic Feeling (confirmed - non familiar setting)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P36_MentalLink : Mental Link
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P37_MentaGuiding : Mental Guiding

Original Quest - #9 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P38_MagicFeeling_Confirmed : Magic Feeling (confirmed)

Original Quest - #10 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P39_PreserversCocoons : Magic of the preservers' cocoons
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P40_Sending_SpecialIntimateCall_Confirmed : Sending (Special, intimate, intense call - confirmed)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P41_Sending_CallingBackImages : Sending (Calling back images)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P42_PossiblePremonition : Possible premonition
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P43_LockedWarning : Locked warning
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P44_MagicallyCreatedSpecies : Preservers: a magically created species
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P45_Sending_DarkSendTorture : Sending (Dark Send - Torture)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P46_TreeShaping_LivingWoodIntoObject : Tree Shaping (living wood into an object)

Original Quest - #11 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P47_Sending_DarkSend_Stun : Sending (Dark Send - Stun)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P48_RockShaping_Dedicated_Door1 : Rock Shaping (dedicated - Door effect)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P49_Sending_DarkSend_PiercingBack : Sending (Dark Send - Piercing back)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P50_Sending_GroupCallToOne : Sending (Group call to one)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P51_AntiHealing : Anti-Healing
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P52_Sending_MultiTargetDarkSend_LeetahsRemark : Sending (Dark Send - multi-targetted) + Leetah's remark on anti-healing
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P53_Gliding_Gliders : Gliding (Blue Mountain's Gliders)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P54_Sending_DarkSendKill : Sending (Dark Send - Kill)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P55_Healing_ImprovisedShield : Healing (as an improvised Shield)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P56_ProbablePryingOnSendings : Probable Prying on Sendings

Original Quest - #12 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt INFO_LockedWarningIsVisual : Information : Locked Warning is mainly made of visual elements and feelings
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt INFO_Shaping_Healing_Same : Information : Shaping and Healing are basically the same type of magic
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P58_LethargicSemiDeadState_RockShaping_Dedicated : Semi-dead state Lethargy - used to enforce dedication of magic (here: VERY dedicated and limited Rock Shaping task)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P59_FleshShaping : Flesh Shaping
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P60_Sending_LockSend2 : Sending (Lock Send)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P61_Sending_IntenseForcingSend : Sending (Intense, focussed, forcing)

Original Quest - #13 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt INFO_GoingOutComesWithDeadlyRisks : Information : Going Out comes with deadly risks
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P62_EmotionFeelingOrMore : Emotion Feeling or more
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P63_Sending_DeepSending : Sending (Deep Sending)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P64_SoulNameAbuse : Soul Name abuse
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P65_ProbableHARDMetalShaping : Probable HARD metal Shaping
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt INFO_AncientTypesOfMagic : Information : Ancient types of magic
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P66_CombinedMagic_RockShaping_Levitation_Complex_Dedicated_MemoryEffect : Combined magic : Rock Shaping + Levitation (complex, dedicated, + History effect)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P67_SymbolicAndMemoryEffect : Information : Symbolic and memory effect, for the Egg
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P68_Semi-deadMagicalLethargyHelpedWithPotion : Information : Magical semi-dead Lethargy helped by a potion
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt INFO_HealingTellsMuchAboutGenetics : Information : Healing tells much about genetics
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P69_ResistanceToDarkSend : Resistance to Dark Send (killing version)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P70_CompleteSelfShaping_Plant_HighOne : Complete Self-Shaping (Plant - High One)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P71_CompleteSelfShaping_Animal_HighOne_INTER-BREEDING : Complete Self-Shaping (animal - High One) + Magically induced INTER-BREEDING
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P72_ProbableMindManipulation : Information : Probable Mind Manipulation

Original Quest - #14 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt INFO_RecognitionRevealsTheSoul : Information : Recognition reveals the soul
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P73_MindControl_Oblivion : Sending (Dark Send) - Mind Control (Oblivion)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P74_GoingOut_SpiritCapture : Going Out (Spirit Capture)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P75_SendingAndGoingOut_SpecialMindProbe : Sending and Going Out (Spirit Seeking)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P76_FleshShaping_OnAnimal : Flesh Shaping (on animal)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P77_TreeShaping_StrangleweedVinesIntoLivingTrap : Tree Shaping (turning strangleweed vines into a living trap)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P78_PlantControl : Plant Control
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P79_GoingOut_MindTouch : Going Out (Mind Touch)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P80_MentalHealing : Healing (Mental Healing)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P81_ProbableNearDeathAutoHealing : Probable Near-Death Auto Healing

Original Quest - #15 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P82_Sending_OpenSending_Vision : Open Sending (Sharing a vision)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P83_MagicAura_MagicVisualDetection : Magic Aura (Visual Detection of magic)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P84_SoulNameExchange : Exchange of Soul names

Original Quest - #16 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P85_WatchingOver_Confirmed : Watching Over (confirmed)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P86_MagicFeeling : Magic Feeling
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P87_HypnoticTrance_OnTroll : Hypnotic Trance (on troll)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P88_Gliding_RoughVersion : Gliding (rough version)

Original Quest - #17 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P89_Gliding_AtDistance_SomeoneElse : Gliding (floating someone else at distance)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P90_CallOfThePalace_Confirmed : Call of the Palace (confirmed)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P91_PossiblePremonition : Possible Premonition
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P92_SoulNameOffering : Soul Name offering
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P93_PreserverPremonition : Possible Premonition (preserver)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P94_Gliding_HeavyCharge : Gliding (heavy charge)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P95_ProbableHardMetalShaping : Possible Hard Metal Shaping ('fusing metal to stone')

Original Quest - #18 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P96_RockShaping_CombinedToShapePalacesStone : Rock Shaping (combined to shape the Palace's stone)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P97_StoneFeeling : Stone Feeling

Original Quest - #19 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P98_Sending_Link : Sending (Link)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P99_Gliding_ExtremeWeightLifting : Gliding (lifting extreme weight)

Original Quest - #20 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P100_ForcedRecognition : Forced Recognition
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P101_SpiritFeeling_HighOne : Spirit Feeling (High One)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt INFO_DeadSpirits : Information : Dead elf spirits choose or not where they go
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt INFO_Recognition_ThoseBornFromItAttractInterestedSpirits : Information : those born out of Recognition attract interested spirits
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P102_ExtremeLongevity_Preservers : Extreme Longevity (preservers)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P103_104_105_MindLinking_VisualEffects_CocoonsThinkDo : Mind Linking + Visual Effects + Preserver cocoon's Think-Do + support by the 'Scroll' item, heavily charged with magic
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt INFO_SourceAndNatureOfMagic : Information : Source and nature of magic
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P106_GoingOut_HighOnes : Going Out (High Ones)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt INFO_OriginOf_Palace_Trolls_Preservers : Information : Origin of the Palace, of trolls and of preservers
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P107_PreserversCocoons_ThinkDo : Preserver cocoon's Think-Do effect + 'out of time' effect
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P108_MentalLink_FromAfar : Mental Link (from afar)


Siege at Blue Mountain - #1 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P109_WinnowillCaseSeenAsEternalDanger : Possible Resistance to the Palace's call of dead spirits
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P110_PowerAbsorption_EggAsSupport : Power absorption (with the Egg as a support)

Siege at Blue Mountain - #2 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P111_SendingDetection_LongRange : Sending Detection (long range)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P112_SubmissionByUseOfSoulName : Mental Submission (by use of the Soul Name)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P113_MindProbeByMindTouch : Mind Probe (by the use of Mind Touch)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P114_GlidingWhileAsleep : Gliding (while asleep!)

Siege at Blue Mountain - #3 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P115_DarkSendWhileGoingOut : Dark Send while Going Out!

Siege at Blue Mountain - #4 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P116_MentalHealing_CalmingDown : Mental Healing (calming down)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt INFO_MagicAsleepInHumans : Information : magic is asleep in humans
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P117_GeneticChange : Genetic Change

Siege at Blue Mountain - #5 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P118_ConcentratingMagicIntoItem : Concentrating magic into an item
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P119_MagicFeeling_InHumans : Magic Feeling (in humans!)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P120_Gliding_ProbablyEvenInCocoons : Gliding (very probably even inside cocoons!)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P121_GeneticChange_Confirmed_WithLimits : Genetic Change (confirmed - with limits)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P122_RockShapingAndFloating_HugeMagicFocussing : Power Concentration (huge rock-shaping + floating)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P123_Sending_GatheredPowerToDemonstrateDarkSend : Gathering Power (Sending - demonstrating Dark Send)

Siege at Blue Mountain - #6 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P124_Sending_Limitation_Cocoons : Sending (gliders - strange limitation - preservers' cocoons)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P125_SendingAnalysis_Emotions : Sending Analysis (emotions)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt INFO_ControlLinkedWithNeed : Possible information on magic - Control may be linked with need
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P126_SameSoulForTwoBodies_TrickOrReality : Same Soul for two bodies (possible reality / probable Mind Control trick)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P127_TreeShaping_AntiFireEffect : Tree Shaping - Anti-fire effect (+ effect of love on magic)

Siege at Blue Mountain - #7 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P128_MindControlTrick_MoreProbable : Mind Control trick (more probable)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P129_EggAsAMemoryHolder_Confirmed : Egg as a memory holder (like the Scroll of colors - confirmed)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P130_EffectOfWillOnGroupMagic_Focus : Effect of will on group magic (focus)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P131_MentalHealing_EmotionsAndNeed : Mental Healing (emotions and need)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P132_WhatGroupMagicCanAccomplish : What group magic can accomplish
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P133_EggMeantToAbsorbThePalaceAndSpirits_POWER_HUNGER : Egg meant to ABSORB the Palace, the elf spirits inside it, and their power
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P134_SpaceAndTimeTravel_GroupMagic : Space and time travel (group magic)

Siege at Blue Mountain - #8 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P135_MindControlTrick_Confirmed : Mind Control trick (confirmed)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P136_GroupMagicVersusOne : Group magic versus one (+ interesting remark: 'they KNOW her')
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P137_TruthInSending : Truth in Sending (Wolfrider savagery)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P138_MentalHealing_WakingPowersUp : Mental Healing (waking powers up)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P139_Healing_BOTHElfAndHumanAtTheSameTime : Healing (BOTH human and elf, at the same time!)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P140_InterestingAfterEffect : Information : interesting after-effect
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P141_SpiritHosting : Spirit Hosting
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P142_TheOnlyDifferenceIsLove_ProbableKeyForMagic : The only difference is love (probable key for magic)


Kings of the Broken Wheel - #1 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P143_StrangeGeneticEffects : Magic causes strange genetic effects
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P144_MentalHealing_MagicFeeling_ByPreservers : Magic Feeling (by preservers)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P145_FireMagic_HeatingWave_GroupMagic : Fire Magic (Heat Wave - Group magic - by GLIDERS!)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P146_Floating_StoppingHugeBolt_ExtremeStrength_GroupMagic : Floating (used for stopping the huge bolt) + EXTREME STRENGTH (manipulating that heavy bolt) (Group magic)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P147_FireMagic_Bolts_GroupMagic : Fire magic (Bolts - group magic - gliders or linked to Rayek)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P148_Shield_GroupMagic : Shield (group magic)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P149_MentalLinkPlusSpecificEventTriggersMore : Mental Link + specific event near the Palace = triggering of a special effect

Kings of the Broken Wheel - #2 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P150_FireMagicMorePowerfulInTimmain : Information : Timmain has more powerful fire magic than group
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P151_FireMagic_HUGEEnergyBolts_GroupMagic : Fire Magic (HUGE energy bolts - causing a huge chasm - group magic
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P152_FreeingSpiritsToThePalaceRestoredIt_GroupMagic : Freeing the dead gliders' spirits restores the Palace

Kings of the Broken Wheel - #3 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P153_ShapeChanging_InsidePreserverCocoon_TearingItApart : Shape Changing (High One - inside a preserver cocoon - confirmed as incredible feat)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P154_Sending_FromFarAwayAndIntense : Sending (from far away and intensely so)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P155_Flying_PalacePower : Flying (Palace power)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P156_ReintegratingEvenAnUnwillingHighOne_PalacePower : Reintegrating even an unwilling High One (Palace power)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P157_ExtremeVelocityTravel_PalacePower : Extreme Velocity Travel (Palace power)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P158_EmotionTransfer_SpiritMagic : Emotion Transfer (Spirits power)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P159_EmotionTransferConfirmed_SpiritMagic_KureelBarelyRemembered : Emotion Transfer (confirmed + Interesting remark: dead elves barely remember, even recent and extreme events, like murder!

Kings of the Broken Wheel - #4 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P160_WakingUpPowers_PalaceMagic : Waking powers up (Palace power)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P161_MagicVision_PalaceMagic : Magic Vision (Palace power)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P162_MindControl_ForcedSleep : Mind Control (forced sleep)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P163_Healing_AnotherUseOfMagic_sigh : Healing (another use of magic.. *sigh*)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P164_RockShaping_PalaceNotSoDifficultNow : Rock Shaping (..the Palace - not so difficult, now!)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P165_SendingTheCryOut_InsideThePalace : Sending the Cry out (inside the Palace)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P166_RockShaping_Palace_SeparatingAPieceOfThePalace : Rock Shaping (..the Palace - SEPARATING a piece of it!)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P167_DisguisingThePalace : Disguising the Palace (interesting 'A PART of the new land' call..)

Kings of the Broken Wheel - #5 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P168_MindTransfer : Mind Transfer
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P169_MentalHealing_ShuttingMentalDoor : Mental Healing (Shutting mental door)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P170_Shield_PalaceInducedPower : Shield (Palace-induced power)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P171_PalaceInducedEffects : Palace-induced effects
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P172_WaterControl_OneSoulSharedHypothesisConfirmed : Water Control (Winnowill - so soon after her exile on that island!)

Kings of the Broken Wheel - #6 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P173_MagicFeeling_Extreme_HearingCryBeyondTime : Magic Feeling (Extreme: Hearing a mental cry from beyond time!)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P174_LightControl_VisualEffects_Scroll : Light Control (visual effects - Scroll magic)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P175_LinkWithLittlePalace : Link with the little Palace
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P176_MindLinkingFromAfar_WaterBreathing_SoSoonAfterHerExile : Mind Link (from afar) + Water Breathing (so soon after her exile on that island!)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P177_TimeJump_PalacePower : Time Jump (Palace power)

Kings of the Broken Wheel - #7 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P178_MentalCall_Extreme : Mental Call (Extreme)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P179_MentalShield : Mental Shield
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P180_LockSending_FacilitatingBirth : Lock Sending (facilitating birth - without a healer)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P181_MentalShield_ConfirmedAndDevelopped : Mental Shield (confirmed and developped)

Kings of the Broken Wheel - #8 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P182_RockShaping_DeterminingAMountainsAging : Rock Shaping (Determining a mountain's aging)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P183_AntiHealing_DrivenByHatred : Anti-Healing (driven by hatred)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P184_Healing_LeprosisLikeTerminalDiseaseInHuman : Healing (a human - leprosis-like terminal disease)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P185_AntiHealing_Controlled : Anti-healing (controlled)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P186_GeneticChange_RemovingTheWolfBlood : Genetic Change (removing the wolf blood from a wolfrider)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P187_EscapingMindLinkAndSendings : Escaping Mind Link and Sending

Kings of the Broken Wheel - #9 :
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P188_WaterSurge : Water Surge
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P189_WaterSwirl : Water Swirl
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P190_WaterRam : Water Ram
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P191_MentalShield_EvolvedIntoMentalBarriersAndMentalSubmission : Mental Shield (Evolved into Mental Barriers and Mental Submission)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P192_Healing_AtDistance_PowerOfLove : Healing (at distance - power of love + Palace)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P193_TimeJump_BackInTime_PalacePower : Time Jump (back in time - Palace power)

Hidden Years #1:
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P194_Premonition_NotEvenWatching : Premonition (not even watching the target!)

Hidden Years #2:
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P195_FireMagic_CreatingFlames : Fire magic (Creating flames)

Hidden Years #4:
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P196_RockShaping_Bridge_PalacePower : Rock Shaping (Bridge - Palace power)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P197_DetectingHumans_PalacePower : Detecting humans around (Palace power)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P198_WinnowillEntrapped_HypnoticTranceAndPalacePower : Winnowill in hypnotic trance and entrapped within the Palace's walls
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P200_FragmentsOfThePalace_Lost : Fragments of the Palace (lost..)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P199_Healing_CombinedPowersAndPalace : Healing (at distance - many at once - combined powers + Palace effect)

Hidden Years #5:
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P201_Recognition_MentalLink : Recognition (Mental Link effect)

Hidden Years #9½:
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P202_WinnowilShakenOutOfHerTranceByCuttersDeepHatredSending : Winnowill shaken out of her trance by Cutter's hating send
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P203_SendingAsTheVeryAdequatePunishment : Sending.. as the most adequate punishment ever!


Shards #16:
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P204_SoulEntrapment : Soul Entrapment
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P205_WatchingOver_VisuallyConfirmed : Watching Over (visually confirmed)


The Searcher and the Sword:
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P206_HumanSending : Sending (Complete Imagery, BY HUMAN)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P207_PreserverCocoon_ToLearnFromThePalace : Preserver cocoon magic (to LEARN from the Palace)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P208_DeadElfSpiritCalling : Deal elf spirit Calling (confirmed)


The Discovery:
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P209_MagicChanneling_confirmed : Magic Channelling (confirmed) + Learning in preserver cocoon (confirmed)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P210_MagicShaping_PalacePower : Magic Shaping (Palace power)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P211_GoingOutWhileCocoonedAndProjectingAMentalImage : Going Out while cocooned and projecting a mental image from afar!
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P212_NoHidingEmotions : Information: no hiding emotions while in this..
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P213_AstralFlight_CalledByLove : Astral Flight (called by love)
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P214_WaterSurge : Water Surge
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P215_HugeSpiralingWaterSurge : HUGE spiraling Water Surge!
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt P216_WaterRope : Water Rope
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt INFO_UsButNotUs_AGAIN : 'Us but not us..' - reminds of Cutter's remarks.. WHAT KIND OF ELF IS WINNOWILL, ACTUALLY!?..
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt INFO_InThousandsOfYears : 'In THOUSANDS of years' !!
Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptyTopic: Final Quest #12
Miss Gillespie

Replies: 693
Views: 12680

Search in: ElfQuest Comic Discusions   Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptySubject: Final Quest #12    Topics tagged under 17 on Father Tree Holt EmptySat Aug 15, 2015 10:15 pm
#6 blurp: "...The human warlord Angrif Djun, more furious than ever, prepares a massive assault upon every elf living on the World of Two Moons..."
#7 blurp: "...a dire threat surfaces..."
#9 blurp: "...But Cutter’s greatest concern is Angrif Djun’s massive war fleet, which seeks to crush all elves and their allies..."
#10 no mention in the blurp, but we get to see a dying Angrif and his fleet on the cover
#11 blurp: "...Angrif Djun’s war fleet invades the Wavedancers’ waters..."
#12 blurp: "... just as the Wavedancers deliver dire news: the Djun’s warships have arrived..."

oh and this:

#11: "...as a shattering moment of truth occurs between Cutter and Timmain..." so maybe we learn this shattering truth in this issue (or in #17, who knows).

Even though it's a nice gesture, that Angrif's troops are still honour his final wish and attack the elves nevertheless, humans don't react this way. Normally they would turn and figure out, who's going to be the next king (as the Mongols and the Huns did). Just name one historic example, where an army continued an attack even though they knew their leader was dead.
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