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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:15 pm

They post the links, not just the art, so you can follow the link and see the original art and poke around the artist's page, too. At least for the DeviantArt stuff, I'm sure because I've said to myself "Oh, I remember that. That was So-and-so, wasn't it?" and when I look at the link, it confirms or corrects my guess.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:15 pm

The art shows up on the Elfquest Facebook page. Yes, there seem to be links. They do always give credit. And yeah-- I recognize a lot of it from way back when.

@Shadowpath wrote:
The issue where Timmain revealed Cutter is basically her avatar and the middle man* in the Timmain/Skywise romance is where threw up my hands.

Here's a question then-- doesn't this subvert the idea that Cutter is the main character? This changes Elfquest into a story about the relationship between Skywise and Timmain.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:17 pm

@manga wrote:
They post the links, not just the art, so you can follow the link and see the original art and poke around the artist's page, too. At least for the DeviantArt stuff, I'm sure because I've said to myself "Oh, I remember that. That was So-and-so, wasn't it?" and when I look at the link, it confirms or corrects my guess.

That's good, at least they are attributing properly.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:26 pm

@Lunakat wrote:


Here's a question then-- doesn't this subvert the idea that Cutter is the main character? This changes Elfquest into a story about the relationship between Skywise and Timmain.

It really does. It changes the dynamic and the premise of the whole series.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:27 pm

@Lunakat wrote:
Here's a question then-- doesn't this subvert the idea that Cutter is the main character? This changes Elfquest into a story about the relationship between Skywise and Timmain.

Never occured to me ... O.O

... but yes, in retrospect it could be looked at it this way.

Guess the point of view will depend on "who'll survive" for me. Will Cutter be the surviving part in character and/or flesh? Or will it be Timmain? Or both? Or merged?
I mean ... however they'll end up - will it be Cutter we recognize in the end? - or Timmain?

scratch ... does this make any sense?

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:37 pm

@Embala wrote:
scratch ... does this make any sense?

I find that's my main question with FQ these days.

On a more serious note, does this mean Cutter isn't Wendy's "elf-self" any more? Does she see herself as having switched to Timmain?
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:42 pm

@Lunakat wrote:

Here's a question then-- doesn't this subvert the idea that Cutter is the main character?
I don't know if Cutter is Cutter anymore.
Is the Cutter we see now the original spirit that was supposed be, but got pushed down by the soul part Timmain added into the mix?

Personally I like that idea a lot.
But yes it does.
@Lunakat wrote:

This changes Elfquest into a story about the relationship between Skywise and Timmain.
Yeah. That's the same conclusion I came to a few months ago and happily shared with everybody on tumblr.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:04 pm

I don't know if I see it as that. But I was kind of thinking along the same lines when writing my earlier post and thinking about the difference between the original and final quests. It's well established that the original quest was built on the format of the hero's quest. Cutter, love him or hate him, was the hero, and it was mainly about his developement. Very Odyssey-like - being forced from home, facing trials and finding his way again.

And that's the problem I think I have with the Final Quest. Who is the hero? If it's still Cutter, we've taken a lot of twists and turns to get there. What was the point of Ember's capture by the humans? To get the humans riled up? So is the main theme humans versus elves? Why is Strongbow and Moonshade's relationship getting so much focus? Is the theme mortality versus immortality?

Then there's this whole "ancient wrong" thing. Like others, I'm wondering if it has something to do with the troll rebellion. I wonder why Winnowill, who seems to be so taken with getting rid of tainted blood, why would she purposely create a half-elf, half-troll child? Unless Two-Edge was an accident. Were Winnowill and the Troll biologically compatible enough for spontaneous conception? Does that hint of some stronger connection between the two that needs to be rectified?

Doesn't it say somewhere that Winnowill just loved being needed by the troll? If so, maybe that's the attraction between her and Rayek, Rayek's need to be loved and her ability to control him with it.

So, yeah, lots of questions. How many issues are supposed to be left? Are we in the middle of the story, or near the end?

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:15 pm

@Outlier wrote:
then there's this whole "ancient wrong" thing. Like others, I'm wondering if it has something to do with the troll rebellion. I wonder why Winnowill, who seems to be so taken with getting rid of tainted blood, why would she purposely create a half-elf, half-troll child? Unless Two-Edge was an accident. Were Winnowill and the Troll biologically compatible enough for spontaneous conception? Does that hint of some stronger connection between the two that needs to be rectified?

It's always been my impression that it was the other way around - that it was her experience with a halfling child that soured her on mixed-bloods. Not to say for a moment that Two-Edge was at fault. I think she made Two-Edge to fulfill Smelt's need (or desire) for children and keep him under her influence and that she hated herself for the whole mess but couldn't (or wouldn't) admit it.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:20 pm

Maybe part of our problem with understanding is that the FQ is supposed to be ALL THIS
- hero's identity
- humans versus elves
- mortality versus immortality
- and this unkown "ancient wrong"
pressed into too few pages.

@Outlier wrote:
How many issues are supposed to be left? Are we in the middle of the story, or near the end?
Four chapters with six issues each - that's what I've read again and again. Issue #15 puts us in the middle of the third chapter.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:24 pm

I thought she did it to see if she could?

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:41 pm

I always thought Winnowill went originally to get the preservers for Voll, but her own gifts which were abandoned (i.e., healing) were then triggered when she found the troll and healed him. I always figured that since she felt so unneeded by those in Blue Mountain, her need to heal was so desperate and festering at that point, that she ended up staying with the troll when she saw he had a lot of weaknesses - and manipulated and exploited it. I got the impression she just got carried away with the healing thing when she got pregnant with Two-edge.... partially experimenting, partially fulfilling maybe Smelt's desire...partially even maybe desiring a child of her own? But I feel like maybe she wanted one on 'her' terms and that Smelt was very easy to manipulate so she went with it.

When she had Windkin in her chambers and was removing his wolfblood, muttering on about purity, and was having those delusions, seeing Two-Edge's face superimposed on Windkin's, I think she said something along the lines of, No! Going outside to get what I could've gotten within all along was a mistake!
It sort of sounded like she had regrets about going down that route but I'm not sure if the regrets were about experimenting or abusing Two-Edge or what.... possibly just a combo of all that??
I can't imagine Two-Edge would be considered an 'ancient wrong'... that's just messed up. I really hope it's not something to do with Winnowill at all actually. It feels like it might have something in general to do with the trolls though. The whole ancient wrong though just smacks of landing on the WoTM in the first place (at the wrong time, I mean). It sounds like something Rayek was talking about in KotBW, about them having to go through that in the first place. So I don't know...

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:56 pm

The story hasn't been about Cutter in some time, the whole hero's journey thing is very true, that's been the story arc for the most part. I actually don't mind seeing other elves' personal journeys in the process, like Shenshen or even Moonshade (although Moonshade's palace thing always seemed too bloody abstract to me) ...or Strongbow (dude needs to get over some stuff seriously). I wasn't happy at all about the Aurek stuff, because as much as I wasn't a huge fan of the Kahvi series, one thing I DID like was Aurek's story. I realize he's only a peripheral figure but now he just seems weirdly neutralized again and pretty much the same as in Blue Mountain.
Which leads me to the stuff with Timmain, which has presented a story problem to me. Even before the Tam reveal, and since FQ began, I got the impression that she knows more than she's telling. Which is fine, in theory, but it seems that she's gone from Wise One to somewhat creepy presence who speaks of herself in 3rd person at times, and I just do not know what to think anymore. She's definitely not being perceived in my eyes as a wise goddess in any way, and I know Wendy saw her character as just that and wrote about it in a post some time ago. It's just one of the examples of how things can really be perceived differently from how they're intended. She's supposed to be a goddess but I see her as a creepy shadow who is sort of sucking the life out of the story.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:05 pm

@Zadzi wrote:
She's supposed to be a goddess but I see her as a creepy shadow who is sort of sucking the life out of the story.
Also banging Skywise.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:07 pm

Also the thing with the wolfblood is strange. I understand why some wolfriders in particular feel uncomfortable in the palace... but the issue of giving up wolf blood and mortality recently struck me as strange. We are mere mortals and I realize we are humans, so we have a 'different' perception than elves... but as a mortal living in this world with other mortals, I feel we DO dream about immortality. We DO romanticize it. It's what mortals do, foolishly. So I'm curious why wouldn't wolfriders want that? Mortals romanticize immortality but will romanticize mortality and the shortness of life even more because they have no other choice. It's convenient to align oneself with the reality we have to accept... but what if we don't have to accept it anymore? I realize it could present a real existential kind of crisis, but I wonder, do the wolfriders just fear having their senses diluted so that they're not as 'sharp' anymore for hunting? Would they not be able to bond at all with wolves? Or do they really believe in the whole wolfblood thing, because at this point I would think it's soooo diluted to where it's very faint. It's just a mindset of tradition by the sounds of it. But then they still live very long, even though they're considered 'mortal'... so is it that they get more tired after like 4,000 years or something? Because I know they're not like the Go-Backs, who it seems are immortal, but just sort of batshit in how much they romanticize death and fly toward it, since it simply translates as eternal peace in the palace.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:09 pm

@Shadowpath wrote:
@Zadzi wrote:
She's supposed to be a goddess but I see her as a creepy shadow who is sort of sucking the life out of the story.
Also banging Skywise.

Hey, that's her thing, if I was that age and hadn't gotten any in a long time, I'd also be eying my eager, young, smitten pupil and rolling with it lol. I just don't know about the other stuff.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:23 pm

@Zadzi wrote:
@Shadowpath wrote:
@Zadzi wrote:
She's supposed to be a goddess but I see her as a creepy shadow who is sort of sucking the life out of the story.
Also banging Skywise.

Hey, that's her thing, if I was that age and hadn't gotten any in a long time, I'd also be eying my eager, young, smitten pupil and rolling with it lol. I just don't know about the other stuff.
XD

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:56 pm

@Embala wrote:

Four chapters with six issues each - that's what I've read again and again. Issue #15 puts us in the middle of the third chapter.

I guess I missed that. A little thing, but somehow it helps it all make a little more sense.

So we have

Chapter 1 - Ember gets captured by the Djun and finds the strength to deny Recognition
Chapter 2 - This doesn't seem to be quite as cohesive but seems mainly to be concerned with everyone's choices in response to the palace's call.
Chapter 3 - Cutter's identity crises.

I wonder if chapter 4 will depend on all the other chapters and tie them together or not.

Maybe Timmain knows she can't be split and wants Cutter to go in the palace, so the whole seduction of Skywise was to have his help in pressuring Cutter to choose the palace. Will it come down for Cutter to a choice between Leetah and Skywise? He said something about how long will they wait for him, he doesn't seem to know that Leetah's already made her choice. Maybe that's why she looks happy on the cover, while Skywise appears more apprehensive.

It really looks like Cutter is maybe delusional and stuck in the time of the palace war.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:02 pm

Or maybe she knows that Skywise wouldn't leave Cutter-- and that Cutter won't leave the wotm. By revealing that she and Cutter are the same entity-- Skywise now doesn't have to make that choice. He has TimTammain in the Palace and TimTammain on the planet

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:16 pm

Skywise loses his abandonment issues and it undoes everyone else Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:13 am

Yeah- I think that's where it's headed. If you think about it, Timmain is just perfect for him. She's the ultimate mom (he lost his mom)-- she's literally Cutter-- she's the Palace and the stars. She's everything he ever wanted. And if he gets really confident-- he can just bugger off to the sky and leave whoever wants to stay behind. I think that's what Timmain is waiting for-- right? So, Skywise losing his abandonment issues really would undo everybody else.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:29 pm

@Zadzi wrote:
...the issue of giving up wolf blood and mortality recently struck me as strange. We are mere mortals ...we DO dream about immortality.
This has been bothering me too. Quoting Cynthia McQuillan's lyrics in the song Children of the Fall, from A Wolfrider's Reflections, "A life short and wild is the fate of our kind, Passion and movement the savor. Sometimes we must hunger for peace in our lives, But violence spices the flavor." She captured the essence of the tribe.
But now it's like everyone's being twisted out of character. Cutter always knew who he was, the blood of ten chiefs, "a wolfrider's life was short and sharp - like his sword New Moon." Lovely Leetah could be a real bitch if she wanted, but I've YET to see her confront Timmain on the number she did on her mate! Skywise, once the blood 'n guts "loyal guardsman," now has a head full of high-one pussy and appears to be in a continual trance. I wish the big ending could be that the Wolfriders stay on the world of two moons, and reflecting our faery legends, move into the hollow hills or some other hidden place. Let the other guys fly off in the palace - hey, send us a postcard when you reach Omicron Seti. Last quote, I promise: Who wants to live forever? - Queen.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:37 pm

Like

Will be hard to find a better ending for my taste. Cutter Cool ... but I don't believe in it ...

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:35 pm

From the FB Public Group:
Wendi Pini wrote:
All's well, here. Just pluggin' away at Final Quest ish #17. Some HUGE stuff happens in this one, but in very subtle ways. More than one reading will definitely be required.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #17   Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:42 am

so how many issues was FQ going to be again? I feel we are moving towards the end?
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