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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:53 am

Btw-- does anyone else think that the way Skywise is touching Timmain is a little weird? First, he's hanging off her neck... then he's- what?- measuring her jaw? just fingering her face? Gee, Skywise, I thought you had smoother moves than that!

I think they are about to make themselves a Jink. I think Timmain shrank down because she's ready to be his baby mama-- and I think he doesn't have a clue that's coming. Yay! (I ain't sayin she's a gold digger... but she ain't messing with no...)

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Miss Gillespie

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:33 am

@Lunakat wrote:
@Miss Gillespie wrote:
Does this mean, mender wants dart to be his lifemate? Because just shagging should be easy enough...

Or... maybe Dart has standards!
elves have standards O_o?
Miss G wrote:
Oddbits wish is a bit too shallow, IMHO. Also Pickys behaviour... Can't the trolls have a little more depth?

But a maiden's love is only as true as the gold he gives her! So what's the standard for a king's love?

I like them shallow. I like that Oddbit is going in for the Elfquest equivalent of plastic surgery. It's completely and consistently in character.[/quote]

I see your point, but I used to interpret this gold digging for the behaviour a troll maiden has to have for her social security. It always seemed as if Picky generally likes her (and kinda a vice versa). And hey, unless she's lying, old maggoty used to be in Oddbits position and she developed other characteristica
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:37 am

One of the things I like the most about this preview is that it shows that other elves did answer The Call. Would like to know what happened to those sleeping lifemates, and that poor one who was killed.

@Miss Gillespie wrote:
Oddbits wish is a bit too shallow, IMHO. Also Pickys behaviour... Can't the trolls have a little more depth?

Not Oddbit and Picky. On the other hand I think Drub has quite a bit more depth.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:55 am

I really like one of Wendy's comment on the facebook discussion about this issue:

Elfmon wrote:
"C'mon...wouldn't it be boring if the new elves we might meet were all tidily and tightly connected? Bad storytelling."

(She is talking about Dre-ahn not being related to Cutter or any of the Wolfriders)

C'mon... isn't it exactly what you did with Teir, Kavhi and Windkin? When Teir already had a whole background and family of his own? Evil or Very Mad
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:50 am

And exactly because of that (the Teir, Kahvi, Windkin thing, and also the Kahvi, Two-Spear thing) we're now starting to suspect that there'll be a relation between all the elves, then... nope! Rayek Devil
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:00 pm

I just. I can't. This is ridiculous.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:29 pm

@Lunakat wrote:

Multi wrote:
And as for "which answer does Skywise want first", how about the one he or Timmain thinks is the most important? Whatever that is.

I wonder if this is going to turn out to be all in his head... or something like that? I think Timmain is likely to keep some key information to herself here... hence her question. Does she know Skywise told Cutter because she's tapped into Skywise's mind? Because she was spying on the scroll or whatnot? Or because she's tapped into Cutter? I don't trust her.

Please let it be some insane hologram or something. Or Shape changed imposter. Anything to lessen the hammerblow of " The stupid, it burns!!!!"

Oh Timmain, we all know which answer you'll give first - the one that will take at least 3 more issues to explain fully, and STILL makes no sense whatsoever!

And yes, the way Skywise was holding her jaw... it looks very clunky. Like he's trying to fend off a drunken kiss or something.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:43 pm

@Arthis wrote:
I really like one of Wendy's comment on the facebook discussion about this issue:

Elfmon wrote:
"C'mon...wouldn't it be boring if the new elves we might meet were all tidily and tightly connected? Bad storytelling."

(She is talking about Dre-ahn not being related to Cutter or any of the Wolfriders)

C'mon... isn't it exactly what you did with Teir, Kavhi and Windkin? When Teir already had a whole background and family of his own? Evil or Very Mad

I'm just glad the Pinis finally admitted that was bad storytelling. It gives me more confidence in their ability to not do it again. Original Quest, and even up through Kings was so good! I so want the story to go back to that! Actually... Kings is not my favorite. I think the characters lose a ton of depth in that story. They were so fleshed out, so subtle, before. My favorite Elfquest was the original quest through Seige and Secret of Two Edge. Then the Hidden Years stories done by Wendy, Dreamtime and Wolfrider. I hope Final Quest hits that bar soon. The visual is good- it's just a matter of making up care about the characters, I think.

I really like most of the art in this preview. Except, maybe, for Skywise's klutzy groping of Timmain's face and hanging off her neck. (I'm a little embarrassed for him-- he's not bringing his best game to this.) Otherwise-- nice. Silent guy has a great design to him. He looks physically different than the other elves in subtle ways. I think the pages have a good flow- and the backgrounds are lush. Very pretty overall. Korafaye's hair is out of control! Love her silhouette.

The colors are especially nice.

I guess this moment in the story is very dreamy and romance-novelly. That can't last. Bad things must be about to happen. I hope we see more elves in the palace. Why they haven't come out yet, I can't imagine-- but they must be in there! It's been ten years. Cutter found the Sunfolk, the Gliders, the Go Backs and the Palace in six, right? And that was with the stopping to raise kids.

I'm pretty convinced the silent dude is supposed to be autistic.

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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:46 pm

Wendy says that apparently Kings of the BW is a hint to the next issue.
I don't know, maybe Timmain knew what Skywise wanted the same way she knew when his wolf Starjumper died and she immediately went to his side. Is there some kind of connection with that?




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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:49 pm

@Zadzi wrote:
Wendy says that apparently Kings of the BW is a hint to the next issue.
I don't know, maybe Timmain knew what Skywise wanted the same way she knew when his wolf Starjumper died and she immediately went to his side. Is there some kind of connection with that?




Hey - that's a good point!

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:11 pm

That just makes me wonder how much Timmain knows, and how much of that is consciously known or subconsciously, and how she's able to keep track of it all.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:47 pm

The original quest was focused. We had an idea of what each character was doing because they took their time with each one. Here's Leetah, here's cutter and skywise, here's the human village.

This is completely unfocused.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:06 pm

@kathleen3.0 wrote:
The original quest was focused.  We had an idea of what each character was doing because they took their time with each one. Here's Leetah, here's cutter and skywise, here's the human village.

This is completely unfocused.

Some days ago I heard someone complaining about too many story lines when talking about the 'hobbit' movies. I immediately thought of final quest, it's the same issue. In OQ, we only had a few story arcs at a time, in SaBM and KoTBW, they became more but it was still workable, now it's just too many.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:22 pm

LunaKat, you make a good point about how few elves have been found now in comparison to Cutter and how little time it took him. It's kind of crazy that it's only like 5 elves, including Aurek and the other one that died trying to reach the palace. I realize that there are more that are just resisting the call, but story wise it seems strange that grooming Sunstream all these years to send out this call yields such few result in comparison to Cutter, who pretty much covered so much ground. Why would so many years be spent training Sunstream for something that his dad did without training and so naturally and quickly? Even Sunstream found another tribe, the Wavedancers, in his damn SLEEP. So why is the call such a big deal?

Re-reading KOTBW last night, I felt like I was seeing a premature version of Final Quest, with Rayek trying to find the source of the cry Suntop was receiving, and trying to get everyone gathered into the palace to meet the high ones at the moment they landed on the WoTM. Is the time going around in full circle again? Is that part of FQ? I think Timmain is going to tell Cutter that it is indeed time to leave again maybe, gathering everyone in the palace who actually wants to go. Last time, Cutter told Rayek not to, because he didn't like Rayek deciding for everyone, and Timmain has been so adamant about choice. Maybe she is going to do what Rayek originally set out to do, this time with choice being the main difference...some want to go, some want to stay...but there's that strong possibility that if they do go and time travel, maybe the others will stop existing on the WoTM. Or maybe they will exist in some alternate reality.
Ugh, I think I just confused myself.




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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:25 pm

On another note, I think I finally understand the reason why I have such a problem with the palace in the storyline. I think on some level I see it like a church or something, and I've always had a problem with institutionalized religion.
Damn, it's like the wolf riders were PAGANS until they found the palace and they're all born again and now there's this weird evangelization of what it means to be an elf and come to the palace ....aggghhh Mad Suspect Rolling Eyes Suspect ...I really need to stop.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:47 pm

@Zadzi-- I agree with everything you just said. Even if a number of elves are resisting the call.. why? That wouldn't make sense either. The Palace is sort of this evangelizing institution, yes-- but I think that makes sense. It's where every elf came from, is a source of unlimited power, and is the closest thing to their home planet that they have access to-- plus it contains all of their race's history and anything they need to know about what it means to be an elf. So... I get their devotion to it. Which is why I'm so confused as to why only five people showed up for the party.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:50 pm

The problem with the Palace in the storyline, i think, isn't how the elves feel about it. It's that the Palace is basically a deus ex machina. It's a quick and easy solution for everything. It made no sense for Skywise to not go pick up anyone who answered Sunstream with a "yes." He could have done it. Timmain's (or Savah's) logic in forbidding him was just convoluted. But if the elves used the Palace in all the best possible ways they could-- there would be no conflict, and hence, no story.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:33 pm

Dammit! I had this awesome response written and it just got erased....ugh scratch Mad

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:20 pm

Well- heck! Rewrite it! Now that you've got us all curious... Wink

You know, Wendy did say that KotBW was full of hints about Final Quest... so you may be on to something there.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:08 am

@Zadzi wrote:
On another note, I think I finally understand the reason why I have such a problem with the palace in the storyline. I think on some level I see it like a church or something, and I've always had a problem with institutionalized religion.
Damn, it's like the wolf riders were PAGANS until they found the palace and they're all born again and now there's this weird evangelization of what it means to be an elf and come to the palace ....aggghhh  Mad Suspect Rolling Eyes Suspect ...I really need to stop.

You hit the nail on the head! And Timmain has become this sinister preacher! "Suffer the little children to come unto me! And if they do suffer... and die on the way - well, it is all part of the Greater Plan! Aurek losing himself in the Scroll of Colors just like he did in the Egg? Greater Plan! Hallelujah! Praise the Palace!"

Seriously, she gets her hands on Aurek and turns him into Egg 2.0? Oh, it was monstrous when Winnie did it, but when it's all in the willing service of Timmain and her Sacred Doctrine, it's something to celebrate!

I was about to say "There better be some damn good payoff to all this..." but then I remembered the immortal words of Han Solo:

No reward is worth this!
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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:12 am

I think Aurek likes being egg. I think he did that if his own accord-- not because winnow or anyone forced him.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:21 am

So does anyone know - is the Kahvi miniseries canon? Because Aurek sure seemed happy strolling around and running his own microbrew under Blue Mountain in those issues! And he described his time as Egg as "enslaved, enthralled, I too suffered at Winnowill's hands. She held my body hostage, but not my spirit."

I mean, if Aurek is only turning the Scroll for kicks, that's one thing, but if he's basically going right back into his Egg persona it's a HUGE step back for his character development.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:22 am

Gee - I hope not. I didn't read the whole thing because I didn't really like it. I know Nomad loved it though, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

The whole "Winnowil is the baddie bad who made everyone make bad decisions with their lives" is really tired at this point- and, imho, is just bad storytelling (weren't we talking about that earlier?). It's just a variation on having everyone all over the world be neatly related. What caused this thing? Winnowil!

I prefer to think that, if it is canon, that Aurek is deliberately lying because he is in an emotional space in which he prefers not to take responsibility for his own past.

Elves have a tendency to get lost in trance. We know that. We've seen it. Rockshapers lose themselves in their work. Look at Savah's lifemate. Did Savah force him to do that? No. So why assume the Gliders were all forced to behave the exact same way Aurek did-- the same way Orolin did and the same way the guiders of the Palace did... and Suntop did? You get my point.

Aurek was just engrossed in his task. It made sense, given the Glider culture. I refuse to accept the lame Winnowil excuse. That's just as lame as claiming you got a PHD to please your parents. Hell no-- you did that. Take some credit.

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:28 am

@wingthing wrote:
So does anyone know - is the Kahvi miniseries canon? Because Aurek sure seemed happy strolling around and running his own microbrew under Blue Mountain in those issues! And he described his time as Egg as "enslaved, enthralled, I too suffered at Winnowill's hands. She held my body hostage, but not my spirit."

I mean, if Aurek is only turning the Scroll for kicks, that's one thing, but if he's basically going right back into his Egg persona it's a HUGE step back for his character development.
Just in case it's "not canon anymore" I'm determined to make up my own truth of. it:
1. Aurek was happily strolling around, making little eggs and enjoyed his micro brewery under BM.
2. Then he discovered - or was discovered - by this ominous "sinister energies" he held at bay" ...
3. ... and in the process somehow ended up the way we saw him when he entered the Palace.

btw: The Palace obviously sits on a pool of "sinister energies" right now! Anyone of the elves bother about this? Has Aurek ever mentioned it to them at all?

Will it have some effect on the Palace and used in the story later on? Or was it simply made up to explain what Aurek was doing underground for untold time? Are we supposed to assume the "sinister energies" were simply SPLAaaaaaTTT by the Palace landing, absorbed and cleansed and all happy go lucky and will never be mentioned?

On a different note: I like that Aurek stayed Egg to the degree that he shaped his surroundings as usual.
I want to see him active, tho! Active in a way of physical interaction with the other cast, walking around, talking, have some fun besides mental disciplines ...
He probably HAS fun turning the Scrolls. It  seems very much in character for me - he's "made for this" indeed. But I want him to be more than "The Scrolls". :/ I hope he will not be turned into a tool of the Palace the way he was turned into a tools of BM.


And I very much disliked the image of this unknown broken couple in wrapstuff and the talk about "her brave spirit made it" refering to the one who died. This couple obviously suffered so much physically and psychically that not even the combined power of healers AND Palace could mend it within a decent time (from a human pov).

Oh, I get it: The Elves (=Coneheads) are literally a spitiual lot. Most of them don't care whether they have a physical body or just a spirit soaring free of this restricting outer shell. I need not like it tho.

So far this great big CALL for all the elves feels like:
We are here. Get your ass in gear. And in case it's too dangerous or too exhausting or you lack possibilities to cross rock mass and seas - we recommand to kill yourfelf. Your spirit will travel in no time. You are welcome.

BAH!

I hope the "big picture" will make sense of this in backview. Sense for us human beings other than illustrating: Elves are so different from us! You get it now? Get it? GetIt? GOTIT?


This was about LIFE in the beginning. Survival. Support. Keeping your physical shell and loving it. "No elf shall die!"

Now it seems to turn into: Physical life is so bothering. It's overrated anyway. It's cool to be dead. Spirits have so much more FUUuuuuuunnnn....

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PostSubject: Re: Final Quest #11   Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:50 am

But some elves, like Moonshade, might be tired of living. I know she's not looking to leave her body, but she doesn't want to be part of the world anymore. Being in the Palace is making her happy, but she's still retreating from a world she can't handle now, and that makes me sad for her.

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