The Final Quest

Quote :

I really loved that conversation between Two-Edge and Treestump! Finally, someone gave him a compliment about something! This felt to me like, that he was accepted and not an outsider or freak or enemy in this case! Just a little moment though, but I'm glad it happened.

When I first read this - and I think it's mostly about Two-Edge complimenting Treestump - I actually read Two-Edge's attitude as being basically "Meeh... it's okay, I guess." and Treestump just decided to go "Why, thank you! I'll take that as a compliment!"
Then I realised that Two-Edge is actually genuine in his praise of Treestump's work.

Quote :

Did Cutter... make fun of him because he was rhyming?! CUTTER!

I definitely didn't read it as Cutter making fun of Two-Edge because of the rhyming, but rathe Cutter being concerned because of the rhyming.

Quote :

When I first read this - and I think it's mostly about Two-Edge complimenting Treestump - I actually read Two-Edge's attitude as being basically "Meeh... it's okay, I guess." and Treestump just decided to go "Why, thank you! I'll take that as a compliment!"
Then I realised that Two-Edge is actually genuine in his praise of Treestump's work.

Yeah... now that i'm reading it again, i see you're right! I now see it in that way too. Two-Edge was actually the one who gave the praise, then again, I still love Treestump reaction. He did say something like ''from you who pefected this stuff, that's high praise!'' Somehow, i still feel like that's a compliment to Two-Edge. They're both great blacksmiths!

Quote :

I definitely didn't read it as Cutter making fun of Two-Edge because of the rhyming, but rathe Cutter being concerned because of the rhyming.

The first time, I read it as ''Oh great, he's rhyming again...''
I can see it from your point though, that seems more like Cutter[/quote]

Tymber wrote:

Redhead Ember wrote:

Tymber wrote:

The trolls who attack Venka and the others - are these Picknose's trolls? Seem pretty blood thirsty for the pack of trolls Picknose came from (and would eventually rule over).

No. Picknose and his Clan are under the (ruins of) the Thorny Mountain Holt in the New Land/Djunsland, these trolls are under the (rebuild) Original Holt. They're probably descendants of the Frozen Mountain Trolls, going a bit nut.

They seemed more like the Frozen Trolls - but the distance between the original holt and where the Palace was - is pretty freaking significant... http://www.tawmis.com/eqroll/WorldofElfQuest-Large.jpg - so unless these tunnels are all over and linked together - that'd be a huge amount of distance for a scattered band of Frozen Trolls to travel...

But there is a tunnel that connects the Frozen Mountains to the lands under the Holt. It's how the trolls got there in the beginning (after being driven away from the Palace by an ice age), it's how the Frozen Mountain trolls invaded Greymung's kingdom and enslaved the Holt trolls and it's how Rayek and Ekuar got to the Frozen Mountains and the Gobacks.

wolfmoonsky wrote:

'' And Sunstream will be himself again.... Or as much as he can be, now that he holds every elf in his thoughts!''
Oh, so there's a chance that Sunstream could be trapped forever in his mind or go totally mad, and never be the same again. Well, that's totally fine! Nothing scary about that! Totally healty!   I'm glad to see Skywise so concerned about him.

Tymber wrote:

To me, this is Wendy setting up something and being a little obvious about it.
(I think we're about to see the new Winnowill...)

Interesting. I look forward to seeing what developes. I've lately developed some sympathy for Winnowill and I would really like to see some serious redemption happen for her.

I really struggled with whether to buy this issue or not - it seems like I've been mostly disappointed so far - but the discussion here made me too curious to resist. I won't say that this issue changed my mind much, but I also don't think it was as bad as the beginning discussion made me think it would be. It seems to be a trend that when the issue first comes out most of the comments are negative, but as people start discussing it more and thinking about it more it gets more thoughtful and less harsh. I also wasn't hopeful when the best quote Dark Horse could come up with on their site is "Long-time readers won't be dismayed at all." That's what I look for in a good read - lack of dismay.  

But, overall, I felt it was one of the better issues so far. It still feels very hurried, like there are points that have to be hit, and they are getting the job done without much enthusiasm. At this point, it still feels like it's about the destination and they aren't spending much time on the journey to get there.

So, thoughts...

I actually agree with Timmain. If they are planning on leaving, and Future Quest seems to bear out that once they leave they are gone for a while, I would want to make sure that the elves that went on the journey really want to go. I don't think it's about ensuring that only the fittest go, I think it's more of making sure that whoever does show up has spent the time and really know what they are giving up. I think it's about choices, just as it was when Rayek tried to take the palace before. If Skywise just shows up with a pod and says "let's go!", there's not much time to think about it. If there's a call sent out saying "Here we are! Come see us if you want to go!", then you know that the elves that show up are on board - literally and figuratively.  

Yeah, I'm not sure about the conversation between Cutter and Skywise. It did feel forced to show that they are still friends just to make it more dramatic when something happens to change the relationship.

I hope more time is spent on Shen Shen in the future.

I actually don't feel that sad for Moonshade and Strongbow. Based on what was said, I was expecting a much more violent, bitter separation between them. But as someone else said, it feels more like the elven equivalent of a long-distance relationship. I think they both know that the palace isn't going off the planet anytime soon as they are waiting for all the elves to get there, so there's time for either of them to change their minds. I'd call this a trial separation while they both make their own journeys and decisions of what they want to do.

The only thing I'm thinking now, is that you have these populations of elves that were previously hidden who will now be risking detection and moving to go to the palace while at the same time the Djun is increasing his resources and efforts to find them. Definitely a conflict waiting to happen.

kathleen3.0 wrote:

So there's a possibility that Wendy is still relying on the old research(which I admit wouldn't surprise me), and Timmain is still in wolf mode, but I think it's a bit more likely she's being jackass and suffering from protagonist syndrome

When has Timmain *not* been a jackass?

I wouldn't mind the "we wait and only those who really want it will come" idea if Skywise hadn't just pointed out a panel or two before that Abode is like one giant death trap for elves. It really stinks of the "only the strong survive" mentality - but then I've always viewed Timmain in terms of some sort of omnipotent anthropologist. She's so wrapped up in natural selection and moral relativity that actual empathy is a rare commodity.

Actually, she's displayed far more compassion in wolf-form (protecting the early Wolfriders, trying to meditate peace between Cutter and Rayek in KOTBW, being Cutter's wolf-friend during the long Wait) than we ever see from her in elf-form.

Um... okay. I read it.

*sighs* I truly wish I didn't feel the same, or even worse about it.

That's all I'll contribute from now on

I just wanted to point out that at least I'm trying by still reading it

wingthing wrote:

kathleen3.0 wrote:

So there's a possibility that Wendy is still relying on the old research(which I admit wouldn't surprise me), and Timmain is still in wolf mode, but I think it's a bit more likely she's being jackass and suffering from protagonist syndrome

When has Timmain *not* been a jackass?

I wouldn't mind the "we wait and only those who really want it will come" idea if Skywise hadn't just pointed out a panel or two before that Abode is like one giant death trap for elves. It really stinks of the "only the strong survive" mentality - but then I've always viewed Timmain in terms of some sort of omnipotent anthropologist. She's so wrapped up in natural selection and moral relativity that actual empathy is a rare commodity.

Actually, she's displayed far more compassion in wolf-form (protecting the early Wolfriders, trying to meditate peace between Cutter and Rayek in KOTBW, being Cutter's wolf-friend during the long Wait) than we ever see from her in elf-form.

I think it's important to note that she also attempted to reason with Rayek prior to his little jaunt to Blue Mountain(of course, Rayek is completely unreasonable), and gave up her elfin form to provide for her people. Actually, Timmain hasn't shown this kind of attitude before. Yes, she was pleased to see survival traits among the surviving elves, but she didn't demand that they prove themselves in any way.

In fact, this attitude of hers, wherein only those who have travelled over land and made it to the Palace will have the choice to come with them, makes no sense, considering her previous characterizations.

Maybe it will make sense in the end. I don't know. But it's kind of silly.

TBH, I would have liked to see the people besides the Go Backs who are affected by the call. Do they all want to go? Do any of them think it's a trap? Are they afraid, or are they not? Are there any wolf-blooded elves besides our wolf-riders? Have elves interbred with any other species in the world?

One wonders if Timmain had actually explicitly told Rayek "Don't drukk with the timeline, you asshat! This is a terrible idea!" instead of giving him wolf-tears and an ambiguous lick to the cheek... would we still have had the KOBW debacle? He did ask her to make the choice and she did refuse to make it...

It was unconscionable for for Rayek to ask Timmain to make that choice. How could a survivor, especially one so close to the trauma, make that choice for them? Especially since Rayek asking her was the equivalent to a child demanding that mama be on his side, not his stinking brother's.

Besides, this is a discussion for its own thread.

Kindredsoul wrote:

Um... okay. I read it.  
*sighs* I truly wish I didn't feel the same, or even worse about it.
That's all I'll contribute from now on  
I just wanted to point out that at least I'm trying by still reading it

Rest assured, you're not alone.

I was just thinking that writers will often stick with certain themes or ways of things happening. What if it's being set up for another palace war and this time Timmain will take the role of Two-Edge. Maybe she wants to make it difficult because she wants to see which of her two sides will prove better suited, pure-bloods or wolf-bloods. We've been set up to expect this Recognition between Skywise and Timmain so long, what if Skywise realizes what she's doing and actually leads a rebellion against her, maybe even joining forces with the Djun?

wolfmoonsky wrote:

Quote :

When I first read this - and I think it's mostly about Two-Edge complimenting Treestump - I actually read Two-Edge's attitude as being basically "Meeh... it's okay, I guess." and Treestump just decided to go "Why, thank you! I'll take that as a compliment!"
Then I realised that Two-Edge is actually genuine in his praise of Treestump's work.

Yeah... now that i'm reading it again, i see you're right! I now see it in that way too. Two-Edge was actually the one who gave the praise, then again, I still love Treestump reaction. He did say something like ''from you who pefected this stuff, that's high praise!'' Somehow, i still feel like that's a compliment to Two-Edge.  They're both great blacksmiths!

Awh, I loved this moment to First time in a long time I seen Two-edge talking to someone in a....equal tone if you know what I mean?
And I see many who didn't like how they responded to his rage, but I don't think this is over yet. Guess we just have to wait and see, just as the whole Timmain thing, I didn't like her tone either, but we don't know what will happen / What she will do yet, maybe the whole thing is for a reason?

Outlier wrote:

I was just thinking that writers will often stick with certain themes or ways of things happening. What if it's being set up for another palace war and this time Timmain will take the role of Two-Edge. Maybe she wants to make it difficult because she wants to see which of her two sides will prove better suited, pure-bloods or wolf-bloods. We've been set up to expect this Recognition between Skywise and Timmain so long, what if Skywise realizes what she's doing and actually leads a rebellion against her, maybe even joining forces with the Djun?

You know, I have been thinking something like this to, maybe not the same, but that about a kind of palace-war. I really need something bigger that just the Djhuns warfleet to be the danger here, maybe there are some really powerful elves that also has heard the call? ( Other than the once we know ) or the theory about other "palaces" in space.

okay so i was avoiding this thread for a bit, because SPOILERY! but i got my issue and read through it.

yeah, Timmain is definitely being fairly heavy handed. some people have made a very good point about it could be to prevent hostile elves...but hey hey, if hostile elves wanna destroy the palace, they're gonna pop up anyway! and they's probably gonna take their time getting there so they have plenty of strength to fight. so no gain there. i honestly kinda feel like at this point, it's possibly Timmain who is going to go mad! just a feeling, or my odd fancy.

Two-edge...feeling bad for him. there is definitely this unpleasant disconnect between him and Venka, like he does these great things and tries to help her, and she just takes and is like "Oh okay, thanks." just very...cold. really, it honestly reminds of me the scene where Kahvi says to her, "all the best in Rayek and none of the worse, i see in you" but she never spoke about herself now did she? and she was also still quite young at that point. so perhaps Venka is very much like her father and mother, and we're just now seeing it. also i had a thought of Two-Edge, if he alliances with the misfits...basically causing the troll rebellion all over again, throwing the palace in the past once more and causing some kind of infernal time loop. XD

Moonshade and Strongbow...yeah, from what people were saying, i was expecting a huge fight and a "you are too locked in the way wyl! i can't live like this anymore! i must be free!" sort of thing. and that was definitely not what happened in the issue. it's just yeah, a long distance relationship...and from person experience of a 7 year long distance relationship and still going, i don't see a big issue. yeah they've been very close, but hey, deal with it.

and honestly, i don't see why this is so much worse than when they parted ways during the Shard's war. that was worse in my opinion, because they both knew there was a possibility Strongbow wouldn't be coming back from the war! plus they can still send to each other, which is so much better than phone calls, and if it's allowed, she could visit in the flash of an eye with a pod. easier than taking the train or car! and wasn't she the one talking about how your souls touch, no matter the distance during Ember's journey to find a new holt for the tribe, when she asked what recognition was like? so...yeah. it's indeed sad and heartstirring, but not really anything i'd dwell on.

also, whoo hoo for Rayek and Ekuar and Winnowill reaching the palace! OH THE DRAMA OF WHAT COULD HAPPEN NEXT!!!!

and honestly when someone reminded me that Aurek is still at Blue Mountain...it honestly made me think of Wingthing's swiftverse and the Return to Blue Mountain saga. XD ohhh if only Vaya wasn't a spirit in the palace!!

Kindredsoul wrote:

Um... okay. I read it.  

*sighs* I truly wish I didn't feel the same, or even worse about it.

That's all I'll contribute from now on  

I just wanted to point out that at least I'm trying by still reading it

I'm with you on this one Kindred...I 'skimmed' it last night finally, but even with that little bit of attention I wasn't impressed so there's no need to dive any deeper...at this point I have a serious doubt I'll ever come to like this piece of EQ, and after 9 issues you'd think the tide would have changed.

With regards to Timmain's policy on elves answering the call, I might note that "choice and chance," and its opposites of authoritarianism and stagnation, are among the most prominent themes of the entire ElfQuest saga-- and Timmain has always symbolized both choice & chance (in contrast with characters like Winnowill).  In fact, those elves who come to the Palace will be in many ways giving up both choice and chance for the foreseeable future, coming to live in a place of safety where only a few decisions need to be made (and those that are necessary probably won't be made by the rank and file).  If Timmain wants to be absolutely certain that those who enter this state of potential authoritarian stagnation do so of their own free will, solidified through the risks they take to get there, I personally can hardly blame her.

What I don't get, as I've said before, is why this Firstcomer who has always stood in the past against authoritarian control (and that's why she wouldn't decide for Rayek and Cutter in Kings of the Broken Wheel), would pull rank on Skywise like that, rather than sitting him down and reasoning with him.  All I can think is that old as she is, Timmain still has some issues of her own.

I finally realized why it feels like my ship sank. Vaeri had a point that the Shards War had the possibility of being a permanent separation for Moonshade and Strongbow; if not for plot armor, Strongbow could've died. But in the end, the separation wasn't the end.

This long-distance relationship feels permanent, unless by some miracle Strongbow decides he wants his lifemate back and is willing to put up with the Palace to do it.

We all know what the odds are on that.

Depends on how far Futurequest is still canon, Multi-Facets. The "archer" in the Palace looks very much like Strongbow.


All this talk about Timmain turning mad, becoming an enemy  ... made me think of this promotion poster again:



Notice something unusual? ^^

Yep. Two-Edge's spirit doesn't look happy at ALL.

Other than Rayek lying on the floor?

WHO is the woman between the Scolls?

Embala wrote:

WHO is the woman between the Scolls?

As I said, poor ol' Two-Edge doesn't look happy at ALL.

You really think that's Winnie?

To me it looks like Timmain. Or are you suggestion Winnie breaks free of Rayek (which is why he's laying down) and that she somehow controls Timmain?

Exactly, Tymber. She pretty much looks like Winnowill ... and definitely NOT like Timmain.



It's clearly a variation of the calender pic (Greatest Moments calendar) with Timmain - very different features. Of course it might be just an old promotoin pic - when plans were sightly different. Or - nothing else but an OLD red herring.

Okay, the larger picture shows it's definitely not Timmain. Nice find, if it does turn out to be Winnowill. It'd make sense, because with Rayek knocked out - could be that Winnowill, once within the Palace, is able to use magic to break free of the imprisonment of Rayek's mind (if that's where she still is - I don't even know where she is anymore... Stopped reading ElfQuest for a long time when there was all those titles).