Final Quest #24

Because Wendy&Richard decided that Cutter had to die out of the blue and picked the most half-assed way to do it. A freaking spider bite! He didn't die from an infected squirrel bite,but one spider bite sure did the trick! Sad thing is,we don't know if his soul got reabsorbed in Timmain's. At least we could see his spirit at the newest Father Tree proudly looking on,but no!,Wendy@Richard didn't even give us that! And they wonder why fans are upset by the ending. Piss-poorly written,sloppily executed,basically Final Quest is a mockery of Original Quest from start to finish!

Prism wrote:

Final Quest is a mockery of Original Quest from start to finish!

I am so ineffably glad it's finally over!

Incidentally, they can stuff their "tee hee, guess where we're gonna be/ what we're gonna do next???" crap. They apparently couldn't keep it together enough to give the title a proper sendoff story, but are suddenly all fresh-faced for the physical touring/ interviews/ attention/ backpats?  

Both of them need to go back to junior high and stay there until they grow up.

Among several replies on FB was this one...
[quote=Wendy] Guys, I don't know how else to put it. It was timing. She arrived and put her arms around him the instant he passed. Hug. Gone. Bam! That was it. Exhausted or not she would've healed him if she could. But she just didn't get there in time. Cutter didn't want to die and he didn't NOT want to die. He was OK with whatever happened as long as he knew Shuna was going to live. Go back and read the last scenes with him again. There wasn't a single thought of self...not a single thing on his mind beyond that. And he got his wish. Shuna lived.[/quote]

I guess from Cutter’s perspective, Shuna would have been quite young— however old she appeared.

As for Final Quest “making a mockery” of Elfquest... well, Wendy Pini isn’t in her twenties anymore. Or even her thirties. It’s exhausting to draw all day. At some point in life, you wind down. I’m bitter about Elfquest because of the forum thing. And I don’t think Final Quest was the best thought out story. But I have to acknowledge that she gave us her best effort for many years and told a really wonderful story. How it ended... I guess she must have been trying to communicate something that was important to her. And I think she probably tried as hard as she could to make the artwork her best. But what your “best” is changes in the course of a life. I don’t see FQ as making a mockery of Elfquest. It’s more of the evolution of Wendy Pini. She gave what she could give.

Sort of like Cutter.

Looking at Cutter— his storyline in this “quest” was to be tired and find a way to hand over the reigns of his chieftainship. Maybe that was his Quest after all— just to find a green spot to lie down in and know it was okay to do so.

Thank you for the reminder and the balance, Lunakat. I like your thoughtful view on it.

Lunakat wrote:

I guess from Cutter’s perspective, Shuna would have been quite young— however old she appeared.

As for Final Quest “making a mockery” of Elfquest... well, Wendy Pini isn’t in her twenties anymore. Or even her thirties. It’s exhausting to draw all day. At some point in life, you wind down. I’m bitter about Elfquest because of the forum thing. And I don’t think Final Quest was the best thought out story. But I have to acknowledge that she gave us her best effort for many years and told a really wonderful story. How it ended... I guess she must have been trying to communicate something that was important to her. And I think she probably tried as hard as she could to make the artwork her best. But what your “best” is changes in the course of a life. I don’t see FQ as making a mockery of Elfquest. It’s more of the evolution of Wendy Pini. She gave what she could give.

Sort of like Cutter.

Looking at Cutter— his storyline in this “quest” was to be tired and find a way to hand over the reigns of his chieftainship. Maybe that was his Quest after all— just to find a green spot to lie down in and know it was okay to do so.

Seriously?

*breaks out in uncontrolled laughter*

Oh great spirit, now I'm having flashbacks of my 10th grade literary teacher and of the zingers she used to spout. She spent a month trying to sell a bunch of kids on the fact Atticus Finch from 'To Kill a Mockingbird' was 'the greatest literary character of all time.' None of us bought it though, and in the end we were right.

Oh sweet Luna, thank you for making my day.

Nice one Kin

The guy down at the comic store tried to give away all his copies of the FQ because no one was buying them. 'You get a free copy of the FQ with every purchase' he told his customers...went about as expected.

As I said before this ending was one that totally baffles the mind. You kill off a high profile character in the lamest way. And say there maybe more. I wish Wendy had thought it through before she killed Cutter off in the manner she did.

Lunakat wrote:

I guess from Cutter’s perspective, Shuna would have been quite young— however old she appeared.

As for Final Quest “making a mockery” of Elfquest... well, Wendy Pini isn’t in her twenties anymore. Or even her thirties. It’s exhausting to draw all day. At some point in life, you wind down. I’m bitter about Elfquest because of the forum thing. And I don’t think Final Quest was the best thought out story. But I have to acknowledge that she gave us her best effort for many years and told a really wonderful story. How it ended... I guess she must have been trying to communicate something that was important to her. And I think she probably tried as hard as she could to make the artwork her best. But what your “best” is changes in the course of a life. I don’t see FQ as making a mockery of Elfquest. It’s more of the evolution of Wendy Pini. She gave what she could give.

I respect your stance, Luna, but when one's "best" doesn't even rise to the level of "good" - and again, we're not talking disappointment because such-and-such fan theory didn't come to pass, but objectively poor writing and art - then one needs to restrain oneself to less ambitious projects. FQ didn't need to be 24 issues of Spark's Notes, half-developed ideas, new tribes out of the ether, and retcons. It could have been twelve issues story focused on Cutter, Shuna, and the Palace with shorter tales about Ember, new tribes, etc. to come later if she felt up to it. But everything and kitchen sink had to go in, with the series arbitrarily stretched out of meet the anniversary date.

I don't see FQ as Wendy doing her best, I see it as overreaching on multiple fronts while failing to deliver on most of them, and folks are understandably disappointed.

I wish they'd done FQ like Shards #16 - high quality pencil artwork and a narrative. Would have spared us copy and paste, awful colors and might have even improved the story.

As for what we've got...

Stormcatcher that's a good thought. I would have preferred something like Shards 16, as well. Maybe they could have focused a bit better, and the story would have come across better. I feel like FQ, the way it is now, is a mess.

Love the gif!

Obviously a lot of folks are really upset about how things wrapped up. I was disappointed by all of FQ, so this final issue wasn't any worse to me. What I've been trying to keep in mind for the last year or so is that FQ is a very different beast from previous EQ, particularly Wendy-drawn EQ pre-S&S. And I'm not just talking about the transition in artistic medium. In all previous EQ, the "message" was secondary to the art/story. I don't think Wendy was trying to convey too much in the OQ beyond a fun fantasy tale with a few basic themes, like the importance of friendship/family, being true to oneself, etc.

FQ is essentially an allegory. The characters are stand-ins for ideas or concepts. They do not behave or react like the characters we've known in prior arcs. They're more like...walking metaphors, subject to the needs of the metanarrative more than the in-comic plot. Cutter is less Cutter than an embodiment of the Ego Consciousness that progresses through stages of revelation, crisis, enlightenment, and release. All the other characters are mirrors, contrasts, and tools encountered in the course of that progression. This isn't to say that there isn't a gloss of a plot in FQ. There is. But it's secondary and doesn't stand up to scrutiny because it's not the point. The metanarrative is the point.

Allegories do not satisfy our contemporary expectations of stories because they are not primarily intended as entertainment, they are designed to communicate a message. After I started thinking of FQ as an allegory, I tried to judge it on its own terms, and in those therms it's an ok allegory. Cutter awakens to the knowledge that he is one with "God." At first, he rejects this knowledge and reverts to his most base ego nature. Eventually he comes to accept his "Godhead" and realizes that his ego is only a small part of him. He achieves enlightenment and releases the flesh without struggle or regret. I don't find this message particularly compelling because I'm already familiar with the concepts behind it (I've read similar new age stuff myself, thus none of Wendy's "teaching" in that direction was particularly novel.)

But even though I understood what Wendy was doing, I still found FQ endlessly frustrating because I went into FQ wanting a conclusion to the elves' story, and I did not get that story. I wanted a resolution for the characters I loved, and I didn't get those characters. That's partly my problem, because I couldn't just enjoy FQ on its own terms, and partly W&R's problem because they used a beloved existing property to tell a parable instead of giving people the rip-roaring yarn they've been looking forward to literally for decades.

I think the metanarrative of FQ is deeply important to Wendy. I suspect it's near the core of her spirituality now and that it's something cherished that she wanted to share with her readers. I don't think she would have written this story 15 or 20 years ago. It is a very "mature" work, even if I ultimately find it an ineffectual one. I respect her for what she was trying to do, on her own terms. I wish she'd built a new playground for these ideas instead of repurposing one that already existed and which I loved, but she wouldn't have reached as many people that way (how many read Curse of the Red Death compared to FQ?)

That's all from me. I don't like to see the discussion get so personal or confrontational. Wendy and Richard definitely aren't perfect (who is?), but I don't think FQ suffered from lack of effort or devotion on their end. I just didn't want the story they worked hard to give me. That's a mismatch from both sides, but it's not malicious. I'm trying to let go, accept it for what it is, and not take anything personally. Sort of like Cutter, lol!

I think you’re right Wisp, and for many people Wendy’s decision to use FQ as a vehicle to push her spiritual beliefs was, effectively, a bait and switch. Those of us who followed EQ for decades were expecting a certain kind of narrative, and a satisfactory wrapping up of what had come before. We didn’t go into it expecting or wanting to be lectured on WPs spirituality. Kind of like going to the theatre to see a show, only to find it hijacked by Jehovahs Witnesses.

Has anyone ever seen Shen Yun, the Chinese dance troupe? Not surprisingly, Wendy is a huge fan. I went to see it a year ago. Little did I know that the entire show is essentially a front for the Falun Gon (sp?) sect. It is a very politicized show. Now while I have sympathy for Falun Gon practitioners and their claimed oppression at the hands of the Chinese government, I did not appreciate the attempt to indoctrinate me with their beliefs in what I had been lead to believe, by their own marketing, was a traditional Chinese dance show. I felt like I had been misled. It was very much a propaganda piece with a "message" that I had not signed up (or paid) for.

That's how I feel about Final Quest.

The local Falun Gong folks canvas our neighborhood every time the show comes to town. I was curious about it and after some online sleuthing I did realize that it was affiliated with Falun Gong. While I was interested to learn more about their unusual history and beliefs and precarious situation in China, I didn’t like the fact that they sort of hid the ball on what their message and purpose was. It’s not that I won’t attend a political performance, but like you, I don’t want to be tricked into it.

The thing is, I’m not sure Wendy quiiiite realizes that FQ feels a bit like proselytizing. I suspect she feels she’s being subtle (lol!) Also for her, she’s been living with the “evolution” in her ideas about what EQ means (or should mean) continuously. The difference fromOQ to FQ is probably a less jarring to her. And finally, I think there’s an element of delusions of grandeur. If a lot of fans tell you that your story touched their lives and contains wisdom that helps them, maybe you you decide to lay the wisdom on a little bit thicker (think, George Lucas’ Star Wars prequels). I don’t even know. It’s just frustrating. Oh well.

Yeah, I am not so outraged so much as happy it's over. Let the fan fic commence!
Overall, I deeply believe the Pinis thought that the only way to wrap this up was by killing off Cutter , and in the very opposite way of 'warrior like' blaze of glory stuff. So they / she chose the whole "In like a lion, out like a lamb' thing. It's fine. Yes, I do think Wendy truly thinks she's been subtle lol... it's not. Going deliberately against the perceived norm is just self conscious posturing to me, but I really think she meant well. She had good intentions. And yet that's what the road to hell is paved with , so I'm just glad it's over.
Me, I would've preferred the type of ending which kind of felt evolutionary ... Cutter cleaving so closely to mortality feels a bit desperate and going against this 'new way' of being. You don't have to keep being chief dude, just pass it along and go live your life and see if there's something else you'd rather do, you know?
I swear, Timmain made FQ so much worse with her dumb reveal. Just unnecessary drama, really. You don't have an archetype take over your story so blatantly - they're not meant to exercise that much power in the forefront so often. It eclipses the other characters and the storyline. But this is what happens when someone has the agenda of a convert and doesn't realize it :/

Wisp wrote:

FQ is essentially an allegory.  The characters are stand-ins for ideas or concepts.  They do not behave or react like the characters we've known in prior arcs.  They're more like...walking metaphors, subject to the needs of the metanarrative more than the in-comic plot.  Cutter is less Cutter than an embodiment of the Ego Consciousness that progresses through stages of revelation, crisis, enlightenment, and release.  All the other characters are mirrors, contrasts, and tools encountered in the course of that progression.
Allegories do not satisfy our contemporary expectations of stories because they are not primarily intended as entertainment, they are designed to communicate a message.  
But even though I understood what Wendy was doing, I still found FQ endlessly frustrating because I went into FQ wanting a conclusion to the elves' story, and I did not get that story.  I wanted a resolution for the characters I loved, and I didn't get those characters.  That's partly my problem, because I couldn't just enjoy FQ on its own terms, and partly W&R's problem because they used a beloved existing property to tell a parable instead of giving people the rip-roaring yarn they've been looking forward to literally for decades.
 I wish she'd built a new playground for these ideas instead of repurposing one that already existed and which I loved, but she wouldn't have reached as many people that way (how many read Curse of the Red Death compared to FQ?)  

This is what upset me most, they sold us an Elfquest story, but it wasn't really Elfquest. They wanted to use the characters and world they had created to tell a totally different story, but not in a 'trying new things artistically' way, but more of a "How can we rope in old fans to buy something new that they might not otherwise?". I spent the first half or so of FQ wondering what was so off (besides the bad copy pasta and terrible coloring) and the second half mad that they plainly wanted to be writing a totally different story with new elves and new rules but didn't want to have to drum up new fans. I would have read something completely new and different with more open eyes, I would have been much more forgiving of a new medium and the learning curve thereof if it had been 'Elfworld: The Four Tribes' or something that resembled Elfquest but was a different look or take on it with totally new characters. But for Elfquest Itself I just have certain standards.

FiQu was so boring, the plot holes so deep and wide and those "solved in two panels" dramas so terrible, I never had any inclination to look for some deeper meaning, the story doesn't invite to do so. Why waste one's time in analysing something that obviously is not worth the effort? There was never anyone on this forum, who marvelled at the wisdom found in Timmain's text bubbles.



Fun fact: Quite a lot of friends of mine told me about Falun Gong followers they knew and how the sect changed those people's friends and families. The sect is/was aiming for the elite of society -doctors, professors, lawyers- and told them to shun non-believers or modern science.

Basically Falun Gong is the Chinese version of Scientology. That doesn't justify the persecution by the Chinese government, but persecution doesn't make an organisation benevolent either.

Some people found FQ meaningful and moving or else everyone in the Facebook group is lying and the Elfquest Show discussions are hours-long shams. I didn’t have to spend any time to find the “deeper meaning”—in fact, it’s all I could see since the “plot” was so thin! I feel like I’ve been beaten to death by it. Subtle Wendy ain’t.

Personally I think people should be allowed to pursue their beliefs so long as they do not unduly interfere with the life and liberty of nonbelievers. Almost any group or organization can be encouraged to turn on outsiders. Look at the EQ facebook group or the old scroll of colors for a very minor example! Those with critical opinions are shouted down, shut out, not welcome. That’s the EQ version of being labeled a “suppressive person” (in Scientology parlance)..This is an extreme analogy, but there you go. Scientology has obviously caused some of its members harm, and Falun Gong may too, I know less of it. Yet many folks cleave to authority because belonging can feel empowering, they experience a personal benefit, it feels good to be accepted by a powerful person, or who knows why. That’s why I’ve never had an interest in posting a challenging opinion on the FB page. It never helps to tell a brainwashed person that they’re brainwashed or a believer that they’re wrong. It actually just makes them dig in deeper, plus it’s not my duty or right, IMO. (Not that the EQ fans on FB are brainwashed to any comparable degree, but I think there’s some willful blindness, aggressive groupthink, and hostility to nonconfirming opinion going on for sure.)

Hm, I'd argue that the "deeper meaning" is so obvious to you since you're quite familiar with the topic it tries to convey.
I on the other hand, have only a superficial knowledge of "the hero's journey", psychoanalysis and archetypes, new age ideas etc. To recognise something, (in most cases) you kind of have to be know it,or better, have to have a mind set on seeing it. Just like a left-leaning person is more inclined to see injustice in this world or a feminist might see patriarchal structures in everyday interactions.

Well, and I never really carefully read the issues, I rather skipped through them, especially when it was something from Timmain.
Basically, I'm not "trained" to see the deeper meaning of final quest and I never cared enough to dissect it more

Maybe praising Wendy for FiQu is a case of cognitive dissonance?

The hostility that Richard and a lot of fans exhibit toward the least criticism of FQ or EQ in general is awful. But to be honest, the way Lunakat got outright laughed at for her most recent message, which was hardly glowingly complimentary toward FQ, I'm feeling like there's a bit of groupthink going on in the opposite direction at the moment.

FWIW, I found meaning in at least some parts of Final Quest. I would even go so far as to say I have fairly positive feelings toward FQ as a whole now that it's complete. And I think the criticisms people have made here are totally valid! I have made or agreed with many of them! It clearly has any number of issues - art, pacing, contrivances, etc. - and I'm glad that people feel free to say so. But I don't think that makes it laughable that anyone would get anything out of it.

The best things about Final Quest, in my opinion, are the expansion of canon that I can make Easter egg references to in my AUs.

Miss Gillespie wrote:

Hm, I'd argue that the "deeper meaning" is so obvious to you since you're quite familiar with the topic it tries to convey.

Excellent point. The fact that it never even occurred to me sort of proves you're right!

ErinC1978 wrote:

The hostility that Richard and a lot of fans exhibit toward the least criticism of FQ or EQ in general is awful. But to be honest, the way Lunakat got outright laughed at for her most recent message, which was hardly glowingly complimentary toward FQ, I'm feeling like there's a bit of groupthink going on in the opposite direction at the moment.

FWIW, I found meaning in at least some parts of Final Quest. I would even go so far as to say I have fairly positive feelings toward FQ as a whole now that it's complete.

I strongly agree. I'm glad happy if some people liked FQ or found parts to enjoy! It's good when people find their entertainment entertaining and moving! I stand by my initial reaction--for the story Wendy was telling, this was a good, logical, and appropriate ending. She checked her boxes. It was consistent with the themes and style of FQ. Most of the art was better than the average of FQ. I don't find anyone's enjoyment or appreciation of it laughable in the least. It's understandable if other folks feel angry, betrayed, disappointed, or bored. The one response shouldn't negate the other, and speaking for myself at least, it's possible to feel both ways simultaneously.

Wisp wrote:

I strongly agree. I'm glad happy if some people liked FQ or found parts to enjoy!  It's good when people find their entertainment entertaining and moving! I stand by my initial reaction--for the story Wendy was telling, this was a good, logical, and appropriate ending.  She checked her boxes.  It was consistent with the themes and style of FQ.  Most of the art was better than the average of FQ.  I don't find anyone's enjoyment or appreciation of it laughable in the least. It's understandable if other folks feel angry, betrayed, disappointed, or bored.  The one response shouldn't negate the other, and speaking for myself at least, it's possible to feel both ways simultaneously.

Well said, Wisp. I can sign this.

Like Erin stated - I sees the flaws and loopholes, agree with most of the criticisms, feel thankful that constructive criticism, disappointment and frustrated rant can be spoken out freely here. I share those feelings to some degree and can relate to it. There are critical posts I can sign - posts which are much better worded than what I could come up with.
And - I still find enough in FQ that makes it enjoyable for me. Bits and pieces of art and story ... even if I tend to re-retcon in mind. ^^

I welcome positive voices and the balance they bring. And - I love to follow this discussion, learn about hero's journing, New Age and what else may have influenced FQ and the ways to look at it.