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 Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0

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Embala

Embala

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PostSubject: Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0   Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 EmptySun Sep 06, 2015 6:34 pm

Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 2.0 ... this was Winnowill's thread, opened by Multimedea, on the original Scroll of Colors. Follow old discussions and see fanart from earlier times.

Visit Winnowill's bio page on Elfquest.com.

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Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 Lifebr10
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Last edited by Embala on Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:21 am; edited 7 times in total
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Zadzi

Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0   Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 EmptySun Sep 06, 2015 8:49 pm

Thanks for listing these, Embala! That's quite a feat Very Happy

Are we continuing the convo?
Because man o man am I sick of Winnowill.
Will she change ? Besides just becoming more evil? I doubt it, but I really hope so.

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Thank you for the beautiful banner, Embala  cheers

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Redhead Ember

Redhead Ember

Aries Dragon
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PostSubject: Re: Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0   Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 EmptyWed Oct 07, 2015 9:03 am

'Character Bio':

Winnowill (f)  Winnie Evil  Winnowill

Deceased – immortal
Mother of Two-Edge
Lovemate of Voll, Smelt, Rayek and Grohmul Djun


Last edited by Redhead Ember on Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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Shadowpath

Shadowpath

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PostSubject: Re: Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0   Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 EmptyMon Apr 10, 2017 5:43 pm

Ergh, I just hope her soul gets torn apart. She doesn't want to be healed or redeemed. I don't think she'd get much out of being healed. Heck she might just break all over again if she's allowed to feel guilty over what she's done.

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Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 Tumblr_oizli2hnXr1sda8vao1_1280
'We're all broken, in different ways, in varying degrees.'
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Redhead Ember

Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0   Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 EmptyTue Apr 11, 2017 4:20 am

I don't think making her feel guilty would be healing her.

Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 _02_wi10 02 Found


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Embala

Embala

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PostSubject: Re: Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0   Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 EmptyTue Apr 11, 2017 1:48 pm

But she'll probably feel guilty once she's healed - and realizes how much harm she had caused!

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Last edited by Embala on Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:21 am; edited 8 times in total
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Redhead Ember

Redhead Ember

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PostSubject: Re: Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0   Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 EmptyTue Apr 11, 2017 2:01 pm

The way I see it, an important part of healing her would be to tell her that Yes! What you did was wrong! But it's a thing of the past. It's over.

Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 _04_wi104FOUND

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Come play the Who Am I game! Twisted Evil


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Shadowpath

Shadowpath

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PostSubject: Re: Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0   Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 EmptyTue Apr 11, 2017 2:39 pm

@Embala wrote:
But she'll probably feel guilty once she's healed - and realzes how much harm she had caused!
That's what I was thinking. I'd assume feeling guilt is a natural part of the process.

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Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 Tumblr_oizli2hnXr1sda8vao1_1280
'We're all broken, in different ways, in varying degrees.'
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Evil Evie

Evil Evie

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PostSubject: Re: Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0   Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 EmptyTue Apr 11, 2017 3:11 pm

As a Christian I believe that someday I'll stand before the throne of God. More or less, (I'm just sorta brushing the surface for a point) as I stand their I will be made to feel the remorse for all the things I have done wrong. Afterwards all tears are wiped away.

this is why I think Winnowill's healing could be accomplished, especially considering the healing powers of the palace. I don't think it would have worked if Leetah alone had tried to heal her though.

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Miss Gillespie

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PostSubject: Re: Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0   Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 EmptyWed Apr 12, 2017 2:08 am

Do you think Winnowill's "evil-ness" is due to illness or due to her conscious choices?

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Evil Evie

Evil Evie

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PostSubject: Re: Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0   Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 EmptyWed Apr 12, 2017 10:04 am

Her conscious choices. She causes little accidents to keep herself sane much like someone who has a drink to calm their nerves. She tried to quit and then ran into smelt and finally turned her powers on him. It says that smelt remembered his mission, so weather winnowill at first might have trying to protect herself or if she intended him harm from the Start I don't know. Either way I think she broke here and succumbed to her powers after that, (alcoholism). I still think she had some choice but didn't want to see it. The illness kind of really took over here and she grew to like her new self except when she is made to see what she truly is. Not an easy question or answer.

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Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 Wolfso10
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Prayer

Prayer

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PostSubject: Re: Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0   Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 EmptyFri May 18, 2018 7:51 am

I would love to read about Winnowill's childhood, teenage years and her adult life before turning 'mad' and corrupted. Maybe with hints in her personality to become the person she will later be.

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Romans 12:12

Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer.
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jabberwookie

jabberwookie

Aquarius Horse
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PostSubject: Re: Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0   Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 EmptyWed Jun 13, 2018 11:29 pm

I've always thought Winnowill was an interesting bad guy, purely because she does have (if very rare) moments of clarity and compassion to clash with what she is the rest of the time. I also thought it was interesting that not only did she not seem to want to be healed, but she was actually afraid of it. It suggests a lot more is going on beyond the surface of the character that we can't see.

I like that, plot wise, they almost have to find a way to heal her, or accept the risk that she will always remain a problem, since as far as we know, you can't destroy an elf's spirit. It brings up some interesting moral questions. How do you forgive the unforgivable? How do you go about healing that which doesn't want to be healed?

I also feel like maybe conscious choice and that kind of 'soul sickness' can go hand in hand and aren't always separate from the other. If I were to throw in some psychology here, I'd almost say that maybe she's projecting, and all her hatred and contempt for the rest of the world is hatred for herself. You can't love another if you can't love yourself, after all. I think that's part of why she was so afraid when they tried to heal her on the Blue Mountain. There was that moment of vulnerability there, and it made her face the truth of herself. She really didn't like that truth.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

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Embala

Embala

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PostSubject: Re: Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0   Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 EmptyThu Jun 14, 2018 3:14 pm

Interesting analysis, jabberwookie! Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 _11_wi11 #11 found

And you've pointed out the time when Winnowill Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 _12_wi10 #12 found was most interesting. BEFORE she turned into a cardboard villian.

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Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 Lifebr10
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Last edited by Embala on Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:55 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Prayer

Prayer

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PostSubject: Re: Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0   Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 EmptyFri Jun 15, 2018 6:38 am

I love this analysis of yours, jabberwookie! Many 'aha-moments'. It makes so much sense that she's projecting!

I think she is one of the most interesting villains out there. She has a long, hurtful, ill-fated past. Fighted many battles. Became 'incurable' yet tried so desperately to 'win her games' no matter what.

Rayek didn't give up on her though. The only one left who wants her to be cured and convince her hat she IS loveable. No matter what she did. No matter what she became because of hatred. However knowing Rayek's character I wonder if he loves her because of herself or her power...his personality is also very special. You gotta love or hate him. Like Winnowill.

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jabberwookie

jabberwookie

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PostSubject: Re: Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0   Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 EmptyFri Jun 15, 2018 5:36 pm

Hah! Rayek is certainly something! I think he at least thinks he loves her, but as for really, truly loving her, I'm not sure. He's got a pretty rocky past himself, and sometimes I wonder if he's not trying to somehow redeem himself through somehow redeeming her.

He's probably one of the only ones who can and is willing to contain her, so the point is probably moot anyway, but he's got some serious control issues, that one, and I never really thought it was good for her healing process. I think sometimes that's the real reason he hated Cutter and his lot for a long while. They were one of the only things in his life he couldn't control-- they were wild and didn't play by the rules, and they busted up his illusion that he was ever in control at all (multiple times, hah).

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Prayer

Prayer

Taurus Cat
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PostSubject: Re: Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0   Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 EmptySat Jun 16, 2018 10:13 am

That's some great insight into Rayek's edgy personality. Thank you for the analysis, Jabberwookie.

It's true but also think he matured very much throughout the series. I assume he's not only thinking he is loving Winnowill but - in his way - genuinely loving her. He endures much pain to contain her. Yet he didn't become all weak and whiney because of it. I'm glad about that... because if so, he wouldn't RAYEK anymore, would he? Very Happy

Guess Winnowill will never love him back. Their personalities don't fit well in my opinion. I liked the old Winnowill/Voll love couple. When Winnowill was still not badass-super-villain-crazy and had sweet flowers in her hair in Blue Mountain...
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Arill3.0

Arill3.0

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PostSubject: Re: Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0   Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 EmptyWed Jul 08, 2020 7:44 pm

AIGHT TIME TO ARTICULATE 14 YEARS OF COMPLICATED EMOTIONS

Trigger warnings for discussions of child abuse and mental health.

So. As a teenager I was obsessed with Winnowill. Like. Obsessed. Still am, to some extent. Those present in the firestorm of my earliest obsession are likely having war flashbacks right now. I adored her, lavished an unprecedented amount of attention on her, and wrote excruciatingly out of character redemption AUs for her.

But.

I'm a survivor of childhood abuse. I had a parent attempt to destroy my personhood from my earliest days, and I'm still dealing with the fallout over twenty years after the abuse ended. I should hate Winnowill. I absolutely understand people who do.

Her behavior is indefensible. Even before she really went of the rails (in-universe and as a character in general), even before Rogue's Quest, her actions within Blue Mountain are indefensible; to paraphrase Granny Weatherwax, true evil starts when you treat people like things.Winnowill treats sentient people as things, quite literally. She uses elves as doors and keeps human beings as pets. She destroyed her son in virtually every way one can destroy a person. She seeks to control the choices and actions of everyone around her. Oh and genocide. Cannot disregard that.

For the longest time I've been grappling with why I still enjoy Winnowill. Like, people are allowed to enjoy villains of course, it's fiction after all, but I usually despise characters who abuse children. But I don't in this instance. And I think that's because I recognize some of my own mental health struggles in Winnowill. Her fear and self-loathing early on in her madness ring true to me, as is her desire to go to ground when confronted with things that she would rather avoid. Her knee-jerk urge to lash out at those she thinks have wronged her is also, ah, perhaps a little too familiar. Winnowill is basically my worst mental health days jacked up to 100.

I like to use Winnowill as a means of exploring my own fears regarding my mental health and continuing the cycle of abuse. That I chose to explore this through her point of view rather than Two Edge's confuses me still. Typically I'm not at all interested in the reasoning of an abuser...but I suppose since I fear become an abuser myself this fits?

Anyway Winnowill is a monster and I love her.
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Arill3.0

Arill3.0

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PostSubject: Re: Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0   Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 EmptyWed Jul 08, 2020 8:42 pm

ALSO BECAUSE I'M ALWAYS VOLL/WINNOWILL TRASH

I like the implication that it was basically Voll who kept Winnowill from leaping off that last edge into total darkness. She initially began subverting life within Blue Mountain in order to protect him (and then kept doing it under the guise of love but mostly because she liked the control), left to find the Palace for Voll specifically, and went completely off the deep end when he died. She was half dead from her confrontation with Leetah and kept trying to send to him when he flew off...and he ignored her.

Voll let Winnowill down, I think. I'm not saying him being a neglectful boyfriend is what turned her to The Dark Side, but him ignoring her concerns about what she saw in the Egg and apparently not being aware of what being locked inside a stagnate mountain was doing to her did have a hand in things. I think they were essentially each other's sole emotional support in their lives together; as the leaders of their tribe they had a sort of emotional remove from the rest of their people and shared the burden of leadership together. When Voll started shutting her out he eliminated himself as a source of emotional support for her. I think a small part of Winnowill blamed him for that later on, even if she never acknowledged it to herself.

Like, even when he's been dead for three years Voll is very present in Winnowill's thoughts during SaBM. His death has allowed her to assume command and to try and fulfill her original vision for the Gliders but...we see that she's thinking of him constantly, even when bringing her plan together. Without him to keep "safe" she really has nothing that she really cares about anymore; the Gliders are fuel, a means to an end. The one person she cares about besides herself is gone and she's...not lost, if anything she is very, very present and driven, but she's not anchored anymore.
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Arill3.0

Arill3.0

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PostSubject: Re: Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0   Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 EmptyThu Jul 09, 2020 6:52 pm

Unrelated note: I kind of love the fact that Winnowill does her deep motivation monologues to small children. She just lays things out there for Suntop and later Windkin with an honesty she utterly lacks with adults.

Likely this is because she knows that they are very small and can't do a thing about any of what she's telling them, but I found it very interesting nonetheless. She drops certain pretenses with small children, levels with them like they can even understand what she's going on about. I laugh nervously every time Winnowill take Suntop to her lair and is like "And this is where I bring my humans to die. Which your family is going to do, eventually."
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PostSubject: Re: Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0   Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 3.0 Empty

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