Final Quest #11

Some things are best forgotten.


Say- is the dark horse app still releasing comics a day early? Or did they fix that?

Not seeing anything on my end.

Yeah, it's not even showing for preview on Darkhorse for me, which is odd. I checked the site from my laptop as well as the app from my iPad, and nothing. Hm.

I'll keep an eye on the Facebook spoiler thread, just in case.

There's definitely a preview

Argh, I hoped it would go up after midnight but no dice. :-(

Dice.


Elfquest just got existential.

Can someone please tell me what the hell is going on? Are the elves seahorses or something?

Oh please don't leave me in the dark. I dunno when I can get my paper copy! Someone PM me spoilers about Strongbow and Timmain and Cutter and everything!

I tried to hide this, but here's spoiler space just in case
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[hide]Hi Everyone!  Long time lurker (migrated here with everyone else after the SoC debacle) and...Issue #11 has finally put me over the top.  Reading Final Quest has been like watching a lovely antique car get mowed down by a train in slow-motion.  It's hard to overstate how big an impact the original quest had on my development as a writer and artist.  I wish I could stop reading Final Quest, but I love the characters enough that I want to see what happens to them.  There's just enough beautiful art and familiarity to keep me coming back with each new issue.  

Wendy's facility with the digital medium has improved tremendously since the days of Masque (good lord, that was ugly).  From time to time she can still hit it out of the park.  There is, however, a pervasive inconsistency in how she draws the characters now.   Very often, they don't look like quite themselves.  Example: Sunstream on p. 14--there's just something slightly off about him (it's not a terrible egregious example, there have been worse.)  I also can't stand the "composite" panels, where she's clearly using templates of the characters and just moving their limbs around.  Korafay, Brill, Sunstream, Snakeskin, and Moonshade in the palace are a good example from this issue.  I think they were all recycled images, and they never quite look like they're really occupying the space.

The Moonshade/Strongbow story...the bones of this subplot are actually pretty good, but it's been dragged out so long that a lot of the energy has seeped out of it.  I feel like we've been building to this scene of crisis for too long, but the moment still pays off pretty well.  The panel in which Moonshade approaches Strongbow flanked by Skywise and Leetah reads quite creepy to me.  They look like Stepford Wives ("Join us.....")  I get where Moonshade is coming from--she's outgrown the simplicity of wolfrider life and longs for a larger reality.  She's at an impasse with Strongbow because he's still perfectly satisfied with the way things were.  In real life, they'd probably separate, and I kind of like that the series is exploring that.  But Strongbow's anger and dismay also seems perfectly justified.  Moonshade isn't the elf he loves anymore--the elf who appreciated the beauty of the forest, who loved her wolf-friends, who relished the hunt and howl.  That elf is totally, irrevocably gone (right down to the genetic level!), and while that was her choice, that doesn't mean that he has anything in common with the new Moonshade.  She might as well be dead.  Cutter gets it immediately, and I love that he directs a pointed comment at Skywise and Leetah, the two people who have been waiting for him change his own mind.  But I think he drew the wrong conclusion.  The problem isn't that, by waiting for Cutter to become immortal, Skywise and Leetah are "giving up everything that's good for them."  It's that they want and expect everyone to come around to their point of view. They have not made their peace with the fact that a variety of choices can be equally valid.  And with this issue, Skywise has become even more superior and sanctimonious than ever.  

I despise Timmain.  Despise.  I think she's the manifestation of everything that's problematic in Final Quest.  She's just a fount of omnipotent mumbojumbo.  I don't want her and Cutter to be two bodies with one soul.  That would just tie the most complex, well-developed character in the whole series to the most abstract, infuriating character.  

My hope: that Timmain proves to be a liar and a villain.  She certainly reads as profoundly sinister, at least to me.  So high-handed, so imperious.  Maybe her tryst with Skywise was supposed to seem "magical" and "romantic," but to me, it looked like she bopped his brains out--literally!  All of a sudden, he's spouting off about racial purity and how "the healers have to make everyone immortal..." Wow.  Disturbing.  And it seems like she actually brings it out of him.  He's laying there all sated on page 12 (lovely top panels, by the way), and all of a sudden she looms over him.  Then he starts talking about how none of the elves should have a choice about whether to stay or go, and her only response is a cryptic smile.  *shudder*  And afterwards, when he talks to Leetah, he looks sort of drugged.  Skywise (paraphrase): "I just feel so alive, man!"

So when Timmain drops her bomb on Cutter...yeah, I just hope she's full of wolf dung.  My fear, however, is that Timmain is not intended to be evil.  In fact, I've had some strong suspicions about Wendy's intentions throughout Final Quest, and I figure it's time to throw them out there.  

I don't believe Wendy and Richard had any of this planned during the Original Quest.  I don't think the Timmain we met after the palace war was this version of the character.  Sure, they can hand-wave the inconsistencies by having Timmain explain that she "didn't fully remember herself" after being a wolf for so long.  Whatever. I mostly get the feeling that Wendy's absorbed some "New Age" ideas over the years, and decided to take Final Quest in a metaphysical direction because those are concepts she's interested in exploring in the text.  Fair enough.  I've had some exposure to those types of ideas (which is why I'm pretty sure I can recognize them), and I can say that, ostensibly, they seem like they could be explored in a fantasy context very effectively.  It's a bad idea, however.  High-concept conceits (like those that are cluttering up Final Quest) are basically inert plotwise.  They're easy to "tell," hard to "show."  As a reader, there's only so much satisfaction I can get out of a discussion of imaginary metaphysics.  I can only attach to characters, and these characters (whom I've loved for over 20 years,) are just...boring.  Drained of excitement.  Cutter has literally done nothing for 11 issues.  Other than Strongbow and Moonshade (whose plot thread, as I said, has been extremely slack,) how many of our beloved wolfriders have done anything of note in FQ?  Instead, we're following a ton of secondary characters without the nuance or development of the classic characters.  I just can't be bothered to care what happens to Snakeskin or Korafay or Windkin.  I don't really know them (I mindwiped Forevergreen....)

Assorted other observations:

--Windkin's new...membrane is absurd.  It looks so flimsy and wibbly, I don't believe it would improve his flying speed at all (isn't that why Glider-Tyldak asked Winnowill to give him wings in the first place?)  He was way better off with his engineered wings. At least those looked aerodynamic.

--I don't mind the Dart/Mender relationship.  Both characters have been deployed to more compelling effect elsewhere, but they aren't too bad in Final Quest.  But I'm not sure I get what they really see in each other?  Dart has been suspicious of Mender's bloodlust (which makes sense given his traumatic backstory.)  Is Mender attracted to Dart simply because he's an attractive cipher?  Or because he wants a lifemate?  I'll keep an open-mind and hope that more interesting things unfold in their storyline.

--I seriously have no idea what the point was of "making everyone come to the palace."  How cruel and useless did that turn out to be?  We ended up with a mute (albeit a relatively cool-looking one), and two poor b@$#ards in wrapstuff. That's it after years of waiting?  The rest of the elves must realize what a boring plot-killer the palace is, and decided to keep away!

--I swear that in the preview for #11, there was a panel in which Moonshade offers the naked Timmain a cloak or blanket.  Moonshade is wearing her leathers.  I noticed that a page later, Moonshade was back in the palace in her flowing dress.  It irritated me when I saw it, because it seemed like a sloppy continuity error.  In the actual issue, there's no scene of Moonshade giving Timmain a blanket.  I wonder if someone noticed the inconsistency and made a tweak?  Or was I just hallucinating??

--Seeing Aurek in Orolin's old seat made me really sad.  That character has spent his entire life either entranced or alone.  It's just...horrible to contemplate.  And I get that "the elves are different, they aren't human."  But do you really think, say, Nightfall would look at his fate and think it's a good thing?  I don't.

Anyway, sorry for such a crazy first post.  I just needed to get this stuff off my chest.  I'm not sure I was even able to articulate everything that rubs me the wrong way about Final Quest, but at least it's a start.

Spoilers

Spoilers:

Sorry- that was me not knowing how to insert spoilers! Anyone reading any of this should just consider everything in this thread to be a spoiler-- yo.

Despite what I said-- I also agree with everything Wisp said.

I think this is both a great direction and a terrible direction for the story, simultaneously. It's good because it takes things in a new direction- and it's making me scratch my head. I literally have no idea what this means. It's bad because it's not in line with anything that happened before-- it's pretty clear that, despite what they said, the Pinis did not have this planned during the Original Quest. It doesn't connect. They can make it connect, but it feels forced.

And also, yes, Windkin's wings are absurd. I said that- I will say it again. Unless he wants to jump and parachute-- that's not going to help him in anyway. It would create some wind resistance, however, impairing his flight.

I really like interaction between Timmain and Skywise. I think her line to him was amazing. I don't think he's being all racially superior either. He's just saying he wants to take everyone with him-- because he "couldn't bear" to leave anyone behind. What he's talking about, obviously, is Cutter. If Cutter were willing to come-- he wouldn't be saying this. He can't leave the guy.

So in that sense, Cutter is right. Skywise is waiting and not doing the best thing for himself.. which is what he's always done... because he hopes that Cutter will change his mind and come along. It seems like that's unlikely to happen.

Part of me wonders if Timmain is making herself into Cutter to please Skywise, so it will be possible for him to leave? She changed her body for him. Maybe she's willing to go further?

Wisp wrote:

I read the anthologies many moons ago, but I seem to recall there was the suggestion that a Wolfrider's soul name was a reflection of their fragmented elven nature.

That's what I thought too.

I'll keep this simple.

One of the things that I have loved best about "Elfquest" from the beginning was it's celebration of life and love and family.

And now we've gone off the deep end into "more ourselves than ever" as spirits and "you don't get to have it as good as me" (dead Khavi to living Teir) and Timmain and Tam are actually the same person.

How the blank does that even work? If she has never died, and was born millions of years before Cutter existed, in what possible way are they the same spirit in two bodies?

And, er, does this tie into the freaky connection between Rayek and Winnowill? I suppose that could be why Timmain said nothing when Rayek took Winnie away from the palace the second time - to her, it's literally an internal conflict.

Arrgh. All kinds of New Age spirit buffalo dung. I mean, Wendy can believe the stuff she likes. But it seems almost diametrically opposed to the original story. When did "elves are just aliens" become "elves are alien mystics who are inherently better than anything else just 'cause they're so mystical." (Why on earth (or abode) can't Moonshade have the stars AND her wolfbood? The High Ones were in space before they had magic!)

Lunakat wrote:

Spoilers


The Sea Elves might possibly be stupid. All they have to do is collectively disappear into the water and swim away underneath the ships. If they don't at least try to do that, they deserve what they get.

Oh man, now you've got me fuming about those darn Wavedancers, LOL! I literally cannot understand how they can be under credible threat. Ever. The ocean is vast. Humans cannot breathe underwater.

And if they don't feel like swimming to safety (which sounds right up their alley, actually,) they have a coralshaper chief. Ships wreck on reefs all the time. The rock-shaped ring of spikes around Sorrow's End kept the humans out for millennia. Are we really to believe that a similar ring of reefs couldn't foil the Djun's fleet? Maybe Snakeskin should have spent less time shaping that hideous coral monstrosity for his tribe to live in and spent a second thinking about security instead. I will not shed a tear when 50-100% of the wavedancers get killed by humans. Natural selection--if you can't figure out how to survive, even with overwhelming natural advantages, then you win the darwin award.

@Manga-- I get what you are saying, but I actually don't mind the new age-iness of it. I don't think simply having a mystical element makes anyone intrinsically better than anyone else. It's just a characteristic. As far as Timmain ad Tam being the same... I could see that. I mean-- what's spirit anyway? What is a soul? it's not a material thing. Christianity is basically based on the idea that a spirit can occupy a form and be outside of it at the same time. I get that. It's cool. And Sunstream said earlier that everything is one. Sure-- why not? Buddhism is based on that idea. If human beings can conceive of it-- it's not that out there. And if you think about it... Rayek sort of set it up in explaining it to Sunstream, with the whole "blend two flames" business. At the moment that the High Ones appeared in the sky, they also existed on the ground, in the palace, in spirit form. So their spirits were simultaneously in two places at once. That I will buy.

My only thing is... Cutter has never acted like Timmain or vice versa.

[quote="Wisp"]

Lunakat wrote:

Spoilers


Oh man, now you've got me fuming about those darn Wavedancers, LOL!  I literally cannot understand how they can be under credible threat.  Ever.  

They managed it with the plague-spawn, but short of that, yeah. (I like the Wavedancers, but yeah.)

I'm a completionist, as my BFF says, so I'm going to finish it, but tbh, I'm not sure I like it. And actually, this kind of stuff from Strongbow is what makes me really wonder why people think he's so strongly wolf-blooded, because he does NOT live in the now at all. Maybe he did once, when things were simpler, but not anymore.

As far as Moonshade, like a lot of other people say, I feel for her, but I think it's good, in a weird way? I just would have gotten it out of the way years ago. It's taken up too much room in the story, and too much time in their lives. He's been in denial, and she's basically been enabling that denial. She knew what she wanted, she should have just gone for it, and let him deal with the consequences. Putting it off just made them both suffer.

Honestly, I don't think the sea elves are... Well written. They don't seem smart, and they're not interesting.

And for heavens sake, this giant call is meaningless if people aren't coming. And who wants to bet these two elves are going to turn out to be people we've met before?

@Lunakat: Trinitarian Christians believe that. Not all Christians are trinitarians, though, so it can't be said that this "two souls in one" thing is a basis of Christianity.

And if Cutter is Timmain is Suntop is Leetah is Dart is Tyldak is Snakeskin is Ent Elf #4, then what's the point of it all, anyway? It's not conflict of choices and consequences. It's just some poor schizophrenic sitting in a corner, staring off at his/her/its hallucinations.

On a different note, I was sort of right. Cutter's shattering discovery is that he is a High One. Just not the one I thought he was. I wonder if Skywise's is Adya? That would put another spin on Timmain's "receive what was always yours."

Does anyone else feel there is quite a lot of ret-conning going on here in order to make things fit. Wendy and Richard keep saying this was planned from the very start, but...really? I even felt like the Cutter/Skywise recognition story was forced into the plot and never really made much sense anyways. It's like 15 or some odd years ago they decided this is what they wanted to do so they had to start adding things in or retconning stuff to make it all (awkwardly) fit. Because why was the Cutter /Skywise recognition not referenced at the very start? It seems like a pretty big deal. Instead it was just thrown into a short story in a Reader's Collection volume. And now Skywise is being referenced as one of Cutter's recognized lifemates. I don't know...it just seems forced and I'm having trouble believing this was all planned from the start.

If he's Adya that would make sense, considering they are both the palace navigators. That would also explain why Timmain didn't want him to go greet anyone.. Personality wise he seems more like Sefra though-- doesn't he?

Yes-- everyone feels there is quite a lot of retconning. Quite.

Personally, I'm willing to roll with it because it seems things are suddenly getting interesting again.

And Windkin's wings make NO SENSE AT ALL. How are they helping him fly or glide? It's like having two sheets of skin flapping in the wind. A wing or sail needs to be rigid in order to aid in flight or sailing or gliding. It has to catch the wind not be blown about like a cape. Maybe it's like another body part and when he gets aroused they fill up with blood and harden or something LOL. And there's these weird wrist spurs they're connected to that just look gross. This is part of what bothers me about EQ now. It's not grounded in any plausible reality. At least Tyldak's wings made sense for flying. EQ is too magic-y and cartoony now or something. There's no internal logic or 'realness' to it anymore.

I want all the Wavedancers to die in their tacky coral monstrosity.