Final Quest #15 - Delayed.

I think Moonshade looks sad because she was, in that moment, talking to Strongbow, so that's why she doesn't look happy. If I had been the creator I would have shown more happiness somehow, because I agree that it all looks a little weird this way. And I agree that her new look is very unfortunate. I also miss her old square like face. I loved the way the elfs were designed in the OQ.

I think Dart and Freetouch don't respond that much to the divorce because they're sick of it, just like we are. Well, at least I am. I remember my parents divorced after 10 years of fighting and being off and on, just like Moonshade and Strongbow, and when they declared their divorce I didn't respond to it, either, other then saying: "Finally." They probably could have used some support, but I just didn't have it in me anymore.

I don't think Strongbow cares that much about Cutter. He just feels very uprooted, and like everything that he lived for is taken from him. He's in a very bad place right now.
If I was the creator I would defenitly kill Moonshade off any moment now.

Zadzi wrote:

I think Strongbow is going to die, because he feels he has nothing to live for anymore. I think he will either willfully suicide in some battle or will be killed off so he can 'join' Moonshade lol

I just cannot see him embracing the palace. Maybe he'll go hang out with Ember's tribe to feel part of the way and then get wiped out with the others.

Duty. Loyality.

In case his chief - Cutter - decides to live in the Palace for some reason, travel with the Palace, and tells Strongbow he is needed, he will follow his chief.

I don't see him dead. It would be "too easy". Rather Skywise, Leetah or even Cutter will die in my opinion.

It's the way of the pack. He has no mate, he can't live with no chief too (stupid in my opinion but...)

Zadzi wrote:

I think Strongbow is going to die, because he feels he has nothing to live for anymore.

Sifra wrote:

If I was the creator I would defenitly kill Moonshade off any moment now.

XD Someone has to die soon or we reader are going to die of boredome

Embala wrote:

In case his chief - Cutter - decides to live in the Palace for some reason, travel with the Palace, and tells Strongbow he is needed, he will follow his chief.

This.  It's like that panel from OQ 18.  "To be relied upon is all [he] has ever wished."  Strongbow is willing to do things that are beyond the Way, like wage war, when called upon to do so by his chief. If Cutter makes the case, I think he'll go to the palace.

Strongbow is the beta wolf to Cutter's alpha. He's the only Wolfrider to challenge Cutter's right to chieftainship directly. Cutter tells him "not to get any ideas" when Lashpaw starts eying the alpha wolf in Hidden Years. Strongbow loved and idolized Bearclaw. He and Cutter are more like rival brothers, even if the passage of time has mellowed their relationship. Strongbow's newfound angst over "loosing Cutter too" seems a bit over the top. Is it really the way for the wolfpack to give up and die is something happens to the alpha wolf? I wouldn't expect him to be overjoyed at Cutter's disappearance, but "having no reason to live" is a bit much. Guess his kids don't count for anything, lol!

I also suspect Moonshade will not survive.  As a plot twist, it could be very problematic.  I can't wait to see if W&R stick the landing...

Wisp wrote:

Miss Gillespie wrote:

Subtle character development would be great, but I think there are just too many story arcs and not enough pages in FiQu (it less then 30 pages/24 issues, right?). Well, and Elfquest doesn't tend to be very subtle in general, doesn't it?

It's been more subtle than in FQ, usually not on the strength of the story, but on the strength of the art.  Since Wendy stopped hand-drawing, however, there are fewer well-observed little character moments that add nuance to a scene. [Edited to add] The original quest wasn't that many pages.  It felt long because the art was so rich.  

I agree about the richness of the art and how it contributed to the story. Have to correct something here though. Wendy is drawing on a cintiq-- she's still drawing by hand. She's just using a digital pen instead of a pencil. But it's the same kind of process.

From personal experience though-- there is less sensitivity to a wacom pen-- so, imo, one does not really have the same level of control as with a pen and paper. In my experience, it's hard to get the same kind of line quality. But that doesn't change the fact that you are still drawing by hand.

Here's a photo of someone drawing on a cintiq:
[img][/img]

Wisp wrote:

Strongbow is the beta wolf to Cutter's alpha.  He's the only Wolfrider to challenge Cutter's right to chieftainship directly.  Cutter tells him "not to get any ideas" when Lashpaw starts eying the alpha wolf in Hidden Years.  Strongbow loved and idolized Bearclaw.  He and Cutter are more like rival brothers, even if the passage of time has mellowed their relationship.  Strongbow's newfound angst over "loosing Cutter too" seems a bit over the top.  Is it really the way for the wolfpack to give up and die is something happens to the alpha wolf? I wouldn't expect him to be overjoyed at Cutter's disappearance, but "having no reason to live" is a bit much.  Guess his kids don't count for anything, lol!

What a missed opportunity for some wonderful conflict. Strongbow could be politicking to displace Ember right now! Insinuate she has to get back to her own tribe, hint darkly to Treestump that "We must be prepared for the worst", remind everyone that Ember has been "breaking the Way" by adopting humans - this could have been a gripping political drama!

But that would distract from the central thesis of FQ "Pain good, Palace bad." Why actually have a plot when you can have characters relentlessly acting out the same New Age morality play?

Wisp wrote:

I also suspect Moonshade will not survive.  As a plot twist, it could be very problematic.  I can't wait to see if W&R stick the landing...

I literally cannot think of ANY way Moonshade can die that will not read like some of punishment for her daring to question pack mentality. And yeah, "problematic" does not even begin to cover how shades of wrong that would be.

I'm curious what the differences are in the technique Wendy used for Searcher and the Sword compared to Final Quest. The "finals" of SatS were clearly done in Photoshop, but the facial expressions, anatomy and well, pretty much everything looked much better than FQ (except for the star brushes). I'm guessing maybe Wendy was still doing traditional pencils back then, before scanning them and inking with a stylus? If so, she may save herself some time by skipping straight to the cintiq, but she robs her art of a lot of soul.

why did I click the link.... O__O

whyyyyyyyyyyyyy.....

wingthing wrote:

{...} Strongbow could be politicking to displace Ember right now! Insinuate she has to get back to her own tribe, hint darkly to Treestump that "We must be prepared for the worst", remind everyone that Ember has been "breaking the Way" by adopting humans {...}

Lol, I dunno. She's already had her own "Strongbow" in Scouter. I think if that happened again-- especially now that she's had some experience-- the wolf-blooded scion of Cutter would probably deal with him much the same way Indiana Jones dealt with that Arab swordsman: "Urgh... y'know what, just... go to hell." BLAM.

sun girl wrote:

I'm curious what the differences are in the technique Wendy used for Searcher and the Sword compared to Final Quest. The "finals" of SatS were clearly done in Photoshop, but the facial expressions, anatomy and well, pretty much everything looked much better than FQ (except for the star brushes). I'm guessing maybe Wendy was still doing traditional pencils back then, before scanning them and inking with a stylus? If so, she may save herself some time by skipping straight to the cintiq, but she robs her art of a lot of soul.

I'm one of those people who really liked Searcher and the Sword. It was definitely drawn in Photoshop-- you can tell by the lines. And yeah-- it was a little clunky. Lots of use of standard photoshop brushes like the grass brush and the leaf brush. But I liked the colors. And the poses and expressions of the characters felt very natural. There was a good flow to the story, and the theme was very focused.

I think the line work is better in Final Quest. I feel that Wendy did a great job with the coloring in the prequel. Sonny was good too through a couple of issues-- but then he stared cutting corners and it also became apparent that he wasn't thinking about values. So the images, a lot of the time, don't have enough contrast and the details are lost. The first few issues of Final Quest, I think, had some lovely drawings to them. That scene of Ember sitting in her father's lap for example-- it was beautiful. But lately, (maybe due to time constraints or just life taking over? Who knows?) Wendy has been cutting pasting heads and drawing stiff poses, cutting and pasting characters into scenes and it just gives so much less life to the story. What I'm calling the Blue Steel expression happens a lot-- someone just staring with minimal expression, into the air.

Bluetree wrote:

wingthing wrote:

{...} Strongbow could be politicking to displace Ember right now! Insinuate she has to get back to her own tribe, hint darkly to Treestump that "We must be prepared for the worst", remind everyone that Ember has been "breaking the Way" by adopting humans {...}

Lol, I dunno. She's already had her own "Strongbow" in Scouter. I think if that happened again-- especially now that she's had some experience-- the wolf-blooded scion of Cutter would probably deal with him much the same way Indiana Jones dealt with that Arab swordsman: "Urgh... y'know what, just... go to hell." BLAM.

See? Compelling storyline and satisfying conclusion. Win-win!

wingthing wrote:

Bluetree wrote:

wingthing wrote:

{...} Strongbow could be politicking to displace Ember right now! Insinuate she has to get back to her own tribe, hint darkly to Treestump that "We must be prepared for the worst", remind everyone that Ember has been "breaking the Way" by adopting humans {...}

Lol, I dunno. She's already had her own "Strongbow" in Scouter. I think if that happened again-- especially now that she's had some experience-- the wolf-blooded scion of Cutter would probably deal with him much the same way Indiana Jones dealt with that Arab swordsman: "Urgh... y'know what, just... go to hell." BLAM.

See? Compelling storyline and satisfying conclusion. Win-win!

Good point, Wingthing. I'd pay to see that!

Well, I'm paying to see whatever happens. But even if I weren't, I'd pay to see that. lol

Gripping political drama? Strongbow pulling a Rellah? Good chance THIS would make me stop buying EQ. Stop reading it.

Strongbow's way too straightforward and honest to be another Rellah.

Lunakat wrote:

Wisp wrote:

Miss Gillespie wrote:

Subtle character development would be great, but I think there are just too many story arcs and not enough pages in FiQu (it less then 30 pages/24 issues, right?). Well, and Elfquest doesn't tend to be very subtle in general, doesn't it?

It's been more subtle than in FQ, usually not on the strength of the story, but on the strength of the art.  Since Wendy stopped hand-drawing, however, there are fewer well-observed little character moments that add nuance to a scene. [Edited to add] The original quest wasn't that many pages.  It felt long because the art was so rich.  

I agree about the richness of the art and how it contributed to the story. Have to correct something here though. Wendy is drawing on a cintiq-- she's still drawing by hand. She's just using a digital pen instead of a pencil. But it's the same kind of process.

From personal experience though-- there is less sensitivity to a wacom pen-- so, imo, one does not really have the same level of control as with a pen and paper. In my experience, it's hard to get the same kind of line quality. But that doesn't change the fact that you are still drawing by hand.

Here's a photo of someone drawing on a cintiq:
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Yes, it's not that she's not hand-drawing anymore, it's that she's relying WAY TOO MUCH on copypasting generic templates of anatomy.

For all this talk of how proud she is of her "line of beauty" method, I feel that she's really lost any of that feeling with every image she does this copypasting on. I mean, in that preview...just look at how awkward and unnatural, say, Clearbrook looks in the background. I guess she's supposed to be crossing her arms in worry, but instead it looks more like a jointed paper doll being posed in an unflattering manner.

Similarly, Ohler and Treestump's arms look much too stiff, and all this is not even getting into Strongbow and Moonshade who have the copypasting going on all over the place. (also, nice "looking off into the right-ways distance for no reason" pose, Ahdri)

In fact, you know what? I'm going to call this weird phenomenon of Wendy's "paperdolling" from now on, because that's basically what it is. Her paperdolling is what's really leaving a bad taste in my mouth with the art. I can forgive the sometimes strange colouring gaffs and choices Sonny does, I can forgive the amateurish blurring and other obvious Photoshopping 101 techniques. And I totally understand that these issues are all being done on a time crunch that is around half the time that the issues of the original quest were done in, as well as Dark Horse probably not allowing for any more time between issues. But all that said, at the very end of the day it is this paperdolling effect that makes the art in Final Quest look lazy and cheap, something I've never thought about Wendy-drawn ElfQuest art before this series.

It's just...it's really saddening. I wish there was a way that Wendy could be given more time between issues so she could stop all this corner-cutting and make artwork that actually feels like it's worthy of the line of beauty again.

I don't buy the problem of a tight time schedule. They approached Dark Horse and they willed in to publish FiQu. Then Wendy and Richard should have bargained for a more lenient schedule or they should have prepared some issues in advance. There are other artists, who manage to do better work with the same amount of time

*Looks at preview's last page*
I'm guessing she's trying to go some kind of misty feel on that close up of Moonshade's eyes, but it just looks awful.

It looks weirdly unfocused, then there's slight hint of focus but then it goes right back to unfocused.
Maybe I should take notes on how many immortals are going to have the same dull, long hair style.
(I love long hair, but that looks like somebody thinks 'long hair that has no real style to it means this elf is now a High One)
Assuming we get to see anybody before they get butchered by a bunch of grinning humans.

Sun-Toucher looks nice tho.

So... Did anyone go to comicon and pick up a copy of this issue?

Pick up a copy? Yeah ... as usual.
But comicon is too far away. Out of reach for more than one reason.

wingthing wrote:

I literally cannot think of ANY way Moonshade can die that will not read like some of punishment for her daring to question pack mentality. And yeah, "problematic" does not even begin to cover how shades of wrong that would be.

Actually, I'd read it the other way around. Not as punishment for Moonshade for daring to question pack mentality but as punishment to Strongbow for rejecting the happy-happy-joy-joy-love-magic-juice of the Palace.

Cutter once asked Rayek why he thought he'd find peace elsewhere if he'd never found it on the WoTM. But "Final Quest" seems to be saying that there's no place for the elves and no point to life on the WoTM. So I've got to ask, if there's no point to life on the WoTM, what makes them think life is any more meaningful staring at their belly buttons in the Palace?

You asked for it.  And now here it is!  Strongbow's letter to "Dear Abby."  (Which he only wrote because Freetouch made him do it and he has no intention of actually sending it.  Too bad for him Freetouch is better than him at this "inter-web thing."  He's in for a surprise next time he opens a paper! )

Dear Abby;

My lifemate has been stolen.  That's the only way any of this makes any sense.  We have been by each other's sides for ages.  We have been through everything this world could throw at us: human attacks, slavery, imprisonment, the deaths of family and of friends.  We finally had peace.  We finally had a chance to raise a cub all the way.  Life was good.

But something changed.  I sensed her pulling away.  Then one day she had an outburst and fled our home.  We'd just lost an old friend.  I thought she was grieving.  Now I see she was just running away.  Instead of healing she was indulging in mind-bending experiences.  When she did come home, she babbled things that sounded like the after of some bad mushrooms and acted like they were pearls of wisdom.

She had a successful career and a valued talent in the community. Now she spends her days staring vacantly at colored lights.  She and I had a bond such as few lifemates do but now she spends more time "communing with the spirits" than talking to me.  She was a pillar of the community; she's never there for her friends anymore because she spends all her time in her "spiritual retreat."

She's even gotten a bug in her head about body modification as some kind of spiritual goal!  When I say I don't recognize her any more, I mean it completely!  Not even her scent is the same anymore.  Yet she presents each change as if it were a gift.

I could put an arrow through anything that threatened her.  But it is her choices that are filling my heart with arrows.

Where is the friend of my body and spirit?  I want my lifemate back.

Wounded Wolf

Nicely done manga!

That's awesome Manga!

Also, #15 is up for those who like to get an early peek on the dark horse app....