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 Who is your least favorite elf?

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Marina.yurk

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:57 pm

Rayek. I do not like it. Too pompous, proud. Although he is smart and strong in magic. But I have no sympathy for him.
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kathleen3.0

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:15 am

@Startear wrote:


As for me, I've always had a strong dislike for Strongbow. He demands that you change after the ideals of his tribe.

Strongbow demands that his tribe follows its traditions and ideals, and that anyone living with them follows his people's rules, but he doesn't demand that other tribes change their behaviour, no matter how ridiculous he finds it.

And he's not being unreasonable. If you choose to live in a society, you have defacto agreed to follow that society's laws. Especially in the case where those laws apply to safety.
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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:42 pm

Strongbow represents tradition. He's a conservative. All of the Wolfriders represent a viewpoint.

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:51 pm

I like this thread, while I may not agree with all the opinions expressed herein, it's given me a new lens though which to view characters that I don't dislike. It hasn't changed my opinion... but it's made them seem more nuanced in my eyes.

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kathleen3.0

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:15 pm

The further I get into my story, the more contempt I have for Gliders as a whole. Like, first there's the whole representing themselves as false gods to the Hoan G'Tay Sho, up to and including human sacrifice(I mean, yeah, the impression we're given is that the humans all became pets to Winnowill, which is gross in and of itself, because slavery, but Aroree is said to have sexually experimented with them, which, given the power imbalance, is pretty gross), which is terrible. I mean, you'd think they could have just tried to set up a treaty instead of this crap, if only from an ethical standpoint.

Then there's the fact that they're the only group of elves to respond to new elves by outright de-elfinizing them(?). Like, yes, the Wavedancers were scared, and the Go Backs seem to have been very matter of fact("Of course you came to help us, why not?" "Uh, what?"), but the Gliders(who seem to have been living in a kind of mutual depression over the fact that they were the last of their race and no new kids were being born, but seriously, new elves appear, and instead of being overjoyed by the evidence that your species is surviving and, possibly, even flourishing, they enslave and torture them. I mean, none of the kidnapped Wolfriders were kids, but they were all clearly much younger than the Gliders. You'd think they'd get over their loss of the bird(which, accident?) pretty quick, but no, time for some fantastical racism!
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Shadowpath

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:47 pm

Rayek gets lower and lower on my list.
Just...let her go and get on with your life ffs.

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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:38 pm

I think my least favorite elf is now Timmain/Tam. Not Timmain independently or Tam independently-- but their conglomerate self. Because s/he just sank my Elfquest battleship.

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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:04 am

My list has been compressed into just Timmain now. I have never cared too much for Skywise but now I feel kind of bad for him since I am nervous he might not get his own story full developed without it tying into Cutter (again). I mean with exceptions of his parents' death, what independent part of his life does Skywise have, really? His relationship to Aroree seemed like a good place to explore but then it just lost fuel, his counsel with Ember's tribe became intercepted and he left. I am pissed off he doesn't have so much of his own story.

Timmain pisses me off so much omg. I have never disliked a character more in EQ.I never cared SO MUCH for Cutter but now I am kind of pissed off that his own character is somehow being discredited by being attached to her.

Why the hell does Timmain gave to be at the center of this? She was so much more interesting as some wolf-guardian figure with a past. She's been made into the goddess of EQ and all I see is some problem child with shapeshifting issues and no personality. In wolf form she had a personality. In elf form she has none. Now the only way she gains a personality is by being fused to Cutter?!

Sorry to rant. Just. Annoyed.

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wingthing

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:48 am

@Zadzi wrote:
Why the hell does Timmain gave to be at the center of this? She was so much more interesting as some wolf-guardian figure with a past. She's been made into the goddess of EQ and all I see is some problem child with shapeshifting issues and no personality. In wolf form she had a personality. In elf form she has none. Now the only way she gains a personality is by being fused to Cutter?!

I've said it before - hell, I've said it in universe! - and I'll say it again, Timmain is so much more sympathetic when she's a wolf. We saw her care about tribemates, comfort other elves, act as a real mother, even try to mediate a peace between Cutter and Rayek (the world's most cryptic and half-assed mediation, but nevermind).

As an elf she's distant, dictatorial, often downright insulting ("you are a healer of some small skill," comes to mind), and now revealed to be a bodysnatcher who has been using Cutter as some sort of experience-surrogate while she sits safely inside the Palace.
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Elwing

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:41 am

Tammain comes in at number one with flying colors. What a shameless piece of character assassination, and a very desperate one of that.
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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:05 pm

@Zadzi wrote:
Why the hell does Timmain gave to be at the center of this? She was so much more interesting as some wolf-guardian figure with a past. She's been made into the goddess of EQ and all I see is some problem child with shapeshifting issues and no personality. In wolf form she had a personality. In elf form she has none. Now the only way she gains a personality is by being fused to Cutter?!

I think she does have a personality. It's just nothing like Cutter's.

@wingthing wrote:
As an elf she's distant, dictatorial, often downright insulting ("you are a healer of some small skill," comes to mind)

That particular moment never bothered me. It was there to emphasize how much power the High Ones had vs the elves today. Even the most powerful healer any of the tribes had ever known (Leetah- who is as powerful as Winnowil), is not as capable as a High One. I don't think that was an insult from Timmain's perspective-- just a casual statement of fact. And it was there to emphasize her difference. It made sense.

I like weird, remote, alien Timmain. She is an alien. She's lived for eons and travelled through space. The elves of the story cannot comprehend her-- she's a different kind of creature, even if she is their progenitor.

But whatever is happening with her now.. ug. I'm not down with that.

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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:16 pm

I guess technically you could say she has a personality, though I wouldn't call it a particularly compelling one. I never felt Cutter's personality was compelling either, but it was still his own.
The 'alienness' of Timmain's personality bugs me because it's collective and non personal (a non personal personality...)- it's fine in the background story wise, but in the forefront, at the center of everything...? It just doesn't work for me.



Wingthing's mention of the experience-surrogate gives me the creeps because I can see it.
Maybe the 'call' Sunstream made her remember something? Or maybe this whole time she's been 'returning to herself'...?

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Elwing

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:01 pm

I'm reminded of the time Aroree confessed that she had been entering and experiencing the dreams of others and because of that she couldn't have dreams of her own or something like that. At least this was presented as a very bad and creepy thing to do. Probably due to those who had their dreams entered not giving consent.
I think consent is one of the problems here. Did Cutter's parents give it? Is Cutter all right with this? Is Leetah? Is Skywise? It all seems awfully invasive and involuntary.
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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:34 pm

As far as I remember Winnowill had stolen many of the Gliders' ability to dream, including Aroree, and sleep without dreaming was too disturbing so Aroree just never slept. Until the Cocooning, when she had no choice, and so she spied on her tribesmates' dreams to avoid the emptiness. But yes, she did feel that that was a bad and creepy thing to do without their consent, although they forgave her.

edit: I remember now, yes, originally Aroree lost her ability to dream because of Winnowill teaching the Chosen 8 how to enter other Gliders' dreams. They found they couldn't have their own eventually.

I'll add another vote to Timmain as my least fave, she's finally managed to edge out Bearclaw, after many years of neck-and-neck.
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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:53 pm

That bit about dreams always struck me as dumb. Do the elves not need to sleep? If not, then why do they? Why, also, would Winnowil teach the Chosen Eight this particular skill? It seems pointless. And why them? In book 3 she had barely any interaction with them.

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:52 pm

I thought the entering of others' dreams was to spy on them. Like Winnowill taught them that to try on humans as well.
I thought the Gliders didn't sleep at all.... but I have no idea if other elves need to or not. I presumed it was just the Gliders who couldn't.

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:52 pm

Never thought I would say this ever but....

I'm not liking Cutter much lately -.- Maybe it's because he's gotten more passive with age, I don't know, but it's like he's taken an unspoken step away from being/acting like a chief and just going along with what others want done, or wants to do. Especially in the beginning when Ember and her tribe were in such danger.

The Cutter I remember with the fiery spirit and value of life would have told Ember there's a time to fight for the Way, and then there's survival and YOUR tribe. She refused help from the Palace and the others for foolish reasons, in my opinion, especially when she knew HER tribe's lives were at stake and being hunted. Still, she denied any outside help. The Cutter I remember would have stepped up for the sake of saving elfin lives and dealt with his daughter's wrath for going against her.
Instead he sat merrily by with a basket of berries in the pretty Palace discussing elfin philosophy.

Rolling Eyes

Where was Bearclaw's spirit to backhand his son in the back of his head and saying, "GET OFF YOUR ASS!"?

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Zadzi

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:41 pm

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The palace is the biggest problem to the storyline.

Hell, it's probably my least favorite 'character' in EQ.

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:46 pm

@kathleen3.0 wrote:
Skywise, because he seems completely overrated.

Like, we get told how clever he is, and okay, he's smart, but he's not any smarter than Cutter, or Leetah, or anyone else, really. His main character traits seem to be clinging to Cutter, or moping about how no one appreciates him. All the really cool stuff he does, like learning to pilot the Palace, takes place off screen, so we get told stuff, but we never see it.

And something bothers me about his treatment of women.  Can't quite touch on what it is, though. He strikes me as a guy who acts like women not wanting to kiss him is a strike against feminist principles of sexual expression. There it is.
Thiiiiiiis.
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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:37 pm

@Zadzi wrote:
I thought the entering of others' dreams was to spy on them. Like Winnowill taught them that to try on humans as well.
Why would the chosen eight need to do that?
Why would she chose the chosen eight to teach that to? Aren't they busy already doing other stuff?

Quote :
I thought the Gliders didn't sleep at all.... but I have no idea if other elves need to or not. I presumed it was just the Gliders who couldn't.
Then whose dreams are they spying on? Just humans? What's the point of that?

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Lunakat

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:46 pm

Dude. Skywise is totally more clever than Cutter. Remember when he figured out how a key worked? When he swiped the pomel of New Moon from Picknose? When he got Cutter out of the bad deal with the trolls by giving them their pay in centipede legs rather than the legs of deer or whatever? How about when he figures out that the north star is "fixed" and that the lodestone points directly toward it, so if they follow the other end- they will be walking in a straight line across the desert instead of in circles? I feel like there are other examples but I can't think of them off the top of my head.

Anyway-- yeah. He may not be the ultimate in clever, but he's more clever than his chief at least.

I don't mind that he's a player. At least he's honest about it. It's not like he cheats or anything. And as far expecting girls to kiss him... he clearly doesn't, because elves don't kiss!

I like that character. I don't really like that his ultimate girlfriend just turned out to be an extension of Cutter. That's a little lame. Imagine that-- you are dating a girl you really like, only to discover she's really your adopted brother. No. Not okay.

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:47 pm

@Lunakat wrote:

Why would the chosen eight need to do that?
Why would she chose the chosen eight to teach that to? Aren't they busy already doing other stuff?

I'd assume that has something to do with control. She has control over the eight, the eight spy on the others, report back to her, giving her more power/control/knowledge over everything?

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:05 pm

@Lunakat wrote:
@Zadzi wrote:
I thought the entering of others' dreams was to spy on them. Like Winnowill taught them that to try on humans as well.
Why would the chosen eight need to do that?
Why would she chose the chosen eight to teach that to? Aren't they busy already doing other stuff?

Quote :
I thought the Gliders didn't sleep at all.... but I have no idea if other elves need to or not. I presumed it was just the Gliders who couldn't.
Then whose dreams are they spying on? Just humans? What's the point of that?


I have no idea, I didn't write it, ask Wendy lol.

In Dreamtime Aroree mentioned all this. Here: http://elfquest.com/read/index.php?s=DTC&p=130

And yes, of course it was about control. And probably a level of entertainment as well. Not like the Gliders really knew how to do anything fun or lighthearted. Besides staring slack-jawed at the Egg, this was probably their other form of fun or something.

Edit: I guess they did sleep. Just the chosen 8 had trouble dreaming because of the dream spying. And as a result, Aroree never slept later while with the wolfriders.

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:51 pm

Movies. Fun.

That's what I thought as well. I had the notion that the life of the Gliders was very uniform. Days and tasks and nights ... there was nothing new for milennia. Not even new wishes and dreams. Spying in the dreams of others was something new - at least not the own old dreams. And the dreams of the pet Humans must have been refreshing! NEW. Exiting.

I think it was a way how Winnowill could bind the Chosen Ones - those who were allowed to leave BM - closer to herself. A reward for loyality and a kind of drug at the same time.

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PostSubject: Re: Who is your least favorite elf?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:37 am

@Lunakat wrote:
Imagine that-- you are dating a girl you really like, only to discover she's really your adopted brother. No. Not okay.

That does seem really awkward. Except maybe it's not when you're also already sleeping with/romantically fixated on your adopted brother?
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