Let's talk about Abodean Technology

Who made what?
What tools someone had to have to make something ?

Here you go, Hammer ...

Thanks, that works nicely! For me at least.

I often think about how things are made, as someone who repairs things often, and often things I dont have a manual for, I have to think about how something was made, to unmake it (take it apart) and remake it (repair it).

Many things in Elfquest are in easily explained away as "Two Edge figured it out" or "it was Magic", but a few times no explaination is given, or the above explainations arent good enough for me... Cases in point: Two Edge's steam powered forest cutters, and the carved-stone water torture/ execution thing with the two fish that fill with water. There are many others, figured we could discuss them here.

As to the forest cutters, the thing that came to mind the other day when rhinkinge of ways to depict that IRL... Those saw blades are drawn as HUGE wheels of metal... I have a... machine... that more or less matches the depiction of those machines in thr comic (except it is verticle and only 6ft across). It is a huge chunk of steel, and it doesnt even have teeth cut into it, they are seperate pieces in sections. (Look up "Ditch Witch Earth Saw" and you can see what I mean)

Anyway, as depicted, the forest cutters are larger, possibly on the order of 12 foot wide or larger, and are not shown to have "greebles" denoting multiple pieces (though it is always shown in motion, so it could be said its blurred out), so....

My point is, without a team of workers helping him cast the blades (if cast, which would be brittle), what does this imply?  If it is forged steel, and all one piece, he would need to have come up with a way of processing material in a way we havent, or found a way to weld a lot of smaller peices together, or has a forge capable of handling a workpiece somewhere on the order of 10,000 lbs.

We do have forgings larger in mass than this, but they are usually large, blocky, chunky pieces like industrual turbine and generator shafts or cores, and use massive hydraulic systems to move between the presses and the furnas. Thick pieces dont lose heat very fast and can be worked a lot. A blade is thib and eould lose a lot of heat quickly. Direct forging doesnt seem to be the answer here either.

So what Im thinking is maybe he rolled it using a process like they make sheet metal, then cut the shape out, then heat treated just the cutting edges. Aside from what he used as a heat source for rolling out that much material, and the massive rollers hed need to roll it out with, most of this is doable without much more than a coal fire for heat treating and a lot of patience, which we know he has.

The steam engines show he has plenty of options for powering cranes, moving materials, gauging metal through rollers, and whatnot, and he has a lot of time (he can spend a human's lifetime perfecting a sword blade, throwaway war machines are not hard to extrapolate effort for), so really the bulk of the blades, the quantity of material, and even workmanship doesnt bother me, but those blades would be difficult for us to make as shown and we have mastered steel in nearly every way imaginable. Any ideas or clues anyone has on this?

Other mysteries to explore:

Were the water-torture things in Shards (?) cast concrete, metal (bronze, steel), or cut stone? Seems like it would be hard to cut hollow stone water tight like that. Or are they grey clay... In any case they are huge things to construct, but also difficult in that they look to hold close to a ton (metric or standard) of water each, cant collapse.

The flute given to the human boy (hidden years? Its been far too long since I read these things... Yeesh) Regardless, Redlance seems to have a flute in the opening for final quest as well. So the question is, did the Elves figure out this mechanical feature of an artifact while shaping wood, did rhey copy from a human, or is it a matter that they just copied whistling leaves (that look nothing like the flutes)?

Trolls are depicted as always gaving bright, shiny steel blades. Did they have their own stone, copper, bronze, and iron ages, or did they somehow jump straight to steel? At what point is their history forged by Two Edge?

Go-Backs had flutes too - already at the time of the war for the Palace.

Im trying to remember then, would that shaped flute be during the time after the palace was discovered? That would make more sense that a shaper copied the flute from remembering the one from the go-backs.

Flutes arent a super big deal, I remember someone showing me how to make a tiny reed horn from horsetail weeds when I was little... I have never been able to do it myself but theres plenty of natural things that are easy to whittle away on to make whistles. Reed whistles and whatnot are old in history... I just find it interesting that I dont remember there being much of any musical instruments among the wolfriders (and maybe Sarrows End too, but suddenly something that might have been carved for fun by accident or purpose just pops out of nowhere for a shaper, perfectly functional without testing and tuned just fine first try with nothing to go by... Its a little thing, but those little things tease me into wondering if theres a story there that I missed or didnt get told.


Heres another one for you... Two Spear's spears... Second chief if I remember right, pretty early after arrival, and they seem to have mastered making stone spears. Pure wood spears are still perfectly functional (though dont make blade like cutting weapons too well, but an obsidian blade is pretty much a one time use thing in a thrown/projectile weapon, since usually it breaks when it hits something), but they seem to have gone straight to stone... Was this copied straight from the humans in kind of a "well it works for them, we dont know what we are doing, so use that!" Situation?

Trolls are the Howard Wolowitzes of Elfquest.

Does that make Winnowil the Sheldon, or is that Rayak?

Rayek is the Sheldon Cooper  .

Stealing technology from humans and Trolls works always for elves. But they are not dumb, they can develop themselves , if there is enough pressure from outside, that forces them to deal with that problem. Their problem with that problem solving  is, that they are so few, there is not big interaction between one inventor and another. So one alone must work hard to improve his invention. Somehow they manged it to have a stone age technology and copper, iron and other metal they should be able to work with .
they need to gain higher levels , maybe they already gained it.
They  urgently need a think tank. Put some smart elves together  (I think of Treestump, Skywise , of course Rayek , maybe some smart Go-Backs for weapon tec ...who else?) and they might also be able to produce technological-magical hybrid -thingies. I often thought of such things.

Musical instruments in Sorrow's End:

http://elfquest.com/read/index.php?s=OQ/OQ03&p=5

Yeee wrote:

Stealing technology from humans and Trolls works always for elves. But they are not dumb, they can develop themselves , if there is enough pressure from outside, that forces them to deal with that problem. Their problem with that problem solving  is, that they are so few, there is not big interaction between one inventor and another. So one alone must work hard to improve his invention. Somehow they manged it to have a stone age technology and copper, iron  and other metal they should be able to work with .

This is what makes EQ an interesting study of "what if", because in place of numbers and the ever present pressure we have of higher mortality and generational turnover, they have time. Even though the wolfriders are mortal, they still have thousands of years of life to think, ponder, test, observe... As long as The Way doesnt get in the way, one inventor can work on the best way to tan hides or shape trees or cure death (last two being magical, but as they say, magic is sometimes science that is not well understood) No, you wont ALWAYS see the transitional methods from an earlier version of an idea to the current, but you would see some sort of progression... Even in 'stone age' tech, if you study an article on just arrowheads used by one small regional group, there is usually a progression of shape, size, proportion, etc of the arrowheads, evolved from criteria like reusability (small heads last longer) size of game and strength of bow (bigger game may need a larger point to do more damage, but this will also need a larger bow, a wider point will do the same, and not break as easily as a long point), and material sources also dictate shape and size, but usually there is a preferred style found for each era of arrowmaking, and transitions when the group has to switch from big game to fish or small game due to bad winters, fire, etc. IRL, theres also always going to be changes with generational turnover, but with the elves this can be humdreds or thousands of years in the works... Making one's preference potentially stagnate or shift rapidly over time, since there is less social pressure to change or stay the same... Its very interesting to consider.

One other point: in a high technology society, having a long lifespan would have a dramatic difference in the technology options available to a spieces. We are limited, effectively, to a hundred years. Whether we walk, drive, fly, or ride a directional explosive (rocket), the range we can cover in one lifespan is limited. We imagine faster than light speed travel to be a solution to exploring stars (multiple) in a lifetime, and that other creatures out in the cosmos would need the same, but not if they lived for 30,000 years... Even chemical rockets, ion drives, and other methods we have today would take us to the nearest stars if we had slow metabolisms and lived long enough. All with relatively mundane technology, something that could perhaps be simplified if a spieces didnt live deep in a heavy planetary gravity well (also a massive limiting factor on range) This is all speculation, of course, but a "magical" spieces that is also long lived, able to shape things to their will without the limitation of machining processes and metalurgy and material limitation... They could go so far in a short period of generations if they have the imagination for it.

Yeee wrote:

they need to gain higher levels , maybe they already gained it.
They  urgently need a think tank. Put some smart elves together  (I think of Treestump, Skywise , of course Rayek , maybe some smart Go-Backs for weapon tec ...who else?) and they might also be able to produce technological-magical hybrid -thingies. I often thought of such things.

They did this, as I figure it, in Blue Mountain, almost exactly as you describe, a literal bubble of stone shapers shaping rock into a mechanical, magically reactive, physical medium capable of flight and who knows what else. If it had not had a metaphorical psychic torpedo shot down its magical exhaust port, so to speak, who knows what that Death Egg moght have been capable of? Self defense weapons? Time travel? Space travel? That was the inplication, that, to a degree, Winnie/Egg was doing exactly what Timmain did blending with the wolves: binding the strengths of thr High Ones with the strengths of Wold of Two Moons to create something where the Elves were better for it... Yes the drive behind it was twisted, and winnie is the black embodiment of pure amoral evil, but the method was quite elegant and didnt strictly require the blending of spieces to achieve the goal of the elve's survival, without the cost of immortality (just the cost of free will, is all).

Leanan wrote:

Musical instruments in Sorrow's End:
http://elfquest.com/read/index.php?s=OQ/OQ03&p=5

There we go, that works. Sun villagers didnt have to worry about being quiet and had lots of time on their hands aside from farming. Id like to see more drums, but maracas (Im assuming thats what that one thing is) work for percussion (Im partial to such as a former drummer)

Maracas are not enough, the elves need drums so hard. What is life without drums? AEEEEEEEH! Ok , the drums where associated with the savage humans when they put the Wolfrider elves on the pillar of sacrifice, but that doesn`t mean that all other elf tribes have to do without this wonderful group of instruments. I am sure the Sun Villagers have good percussions in their cellars and hid them, so as not to frighten the Wolfriders.
all elf tribes must be able to use hollow bones to knock them together with a clatter. And with a great bone hammering on a hollow tree trunk they must be able to do that, this is no great invention and it might make a good deep sound or not?
Ah yes, I remember ... the Go Backs have their war drums (bongos) to get them all into the right vibe. Now they need to invent big base drums and that stuff...

Mebbe they kept Tyldak's old hollow bones for a xylophone? Where did that bird man get off to? He is an example of crossing tech with magic, while he could fly without eings he is the embodiment of one of several culture's ideal situation: being able to fly with a nice, compact, portable thing, whether that is a set of wings or a jet or rocket pack, csnvas and wire wings tied to your arms with string your buddy spit on so the knots wont come undone and you're standing there, on top of the barn, feeling the breeze on your face, breathing deeply to feel lighter as though thst would make the difference... And wind up in the hospital with two broken legs next to a boy thst says he ate watermelon seeds and they're going to burst out of his stomach growing but its because something else happened thats sorta too sad to remember... As a non-specific, random example...

Anyway... In a way Im glad we dont have mystical magic to solve problems... Healers kind of ruin the Elves when it comes to medicine, woodshapers ruin them when it comes to carpentry, stone shapers ruin them when it comes to making concrete swimming pools... Savah might have been Tesla, except she never coiled a wire or designed a steam turbine, just turned lights on wirelessly... In a way Id kinda like to see another Rebels except where they get to a nitty gritty explaination for parts of magic, and use that to advance tech while they emulate the abilities... Imagine reverse engineering telepathy into a replacement for keayboard/mouse/touchscreen... Shoot, no need to implant a computer if you can make the device teo eay telepathic, and just have information pass directly to and from your brain... And scurity might be nearly as good as quantum since theres not much black and white (binary) about the brain...

I better get back to reading, its been too long.

Back to Morbid Quest, Hammer? XD

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Mebbe they kept Tyldak's old hollow bones for a xylophone? Where did that bird man get off to?

Bad luck ... he got a cremation! (so much for spoilers from FQ)

But there might be some wild giant hawks around ... ^^

Yep, prime morbid quest.. And you could have bones left over from cremation, for that matter they could have boiled him in oil first, puller the bones for the xylophone, and burned the rest of the remains for cremation (presumably so Windkin can spread them through the wind currents... I dunno why I dont remember this, gotta go back through a lot of EQ apparently). This would have the added benefit of having a prime hand drum of the skull, making two sets of insturments out of one "Winnie Special", and prime family heirlooms to be handed down from generation to generation. "Can we hear a story about Great Grandpa?" "Sure, and youll be able to hear him as I set the story to music..."

^^

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I dunno why I dont remember this, ...

Because you've never read FQ so far?

And don't let Kahvi see your "recipe" ... she might be inspired to test it on you! XD

How do Elves pass down technology if they have long lives and short memories?

If youve seen 50 first dates, they explained it at the mental ward, the doctor that wrote a paper on the short term memory loss he himself was experiencing...

There really isnt any sort of apprenticeship amont the elves until they threw in with the trolls, eh? Someone would just be like "oh, hey, Im gonna start tanning hides" and then did that, and never taught anyone else. Next tailor had to start from scratch. Later, the healers started comparing notes, but again, thats after extended contact with trolls... So...


Edit:
After rereading some of the chonology of EQ... It is as we feared... The wolfriders are techno-thugs that steal their tech... Who knows where the himans got the metal spear from, but Switft-Spear downright stole that metal weapon from the humans. He says it was in payment for them dissing his ride, but he downright murdered that guy for it and didnt even take his shoes... Dude, there was another black caddy parked there with the keys in it, literally saying "take me for a ride, you won't regret it"
Elfin gangsters, bein all territorial and stuff... Startin riots and burnin the humies outta their neighborhoods... Notice we sensible trolls had no part of that business, being far more sensible, goin straight for the gold and the bling underground...

Of course... One could ask where the metal spear came from in the first place.... But an honest trader trading tools honestly for ... Well, I cant remember what it was I traded... i mean that trader traded the spear for, might have been beesweets... Anyway, it was an honest fair trade of a hunting spear... How was I... I mean whoever it was supposed to know it would start a gang war and weapon's race?

Ya cant blame me... Id blame the cray-cray parents...