Christina's (unofficial) WaveDancers timeline v. 2.0

Posts : 198 Join date : 2014-03-07

Alright, trying to move here my project for an (unofficial) timeline and birth-orders of the WaveDancers. I want to try and see if the current tribe can be listed in birth order, to give us all an idea of who was alive when, who is younger than who, and so on.

I know Wendy doesn't really care all that much about timelines and parentages, but it's the sort of stuff that I like to obsess and elaborate over - especially with regard to my beloved WaveDancers Wink - so I'm hoping not to bore you all with my brainstorming and theories. And if you wanna join the fun, dive right in! It's *always* under construction and this is v. 2.0 since its creation. See post title for updates! ^_^

In this first post, I'll include the timeline I have figured out thus far. Next come bits and pieces of speculations from which each entry is derived, and my list of sources.

CHRISTINA'S (UNOFFICIAL) WAVEDANCERS TIMELINE / BIRTHS ORDER (v. 2.0)

Several centuries before OQ ("Wolfrider!"-era or earlier)- The WaveDancers elders are born. There's no way to know who was born before who or just how many years before SABM, however the birth order should be roughly like this; Coral and Salt are born (and again there's no telling who is older, although Salt is said to be the eldest living WaveDancer in "Turning Tide" and "The Discovery" ). Some time later, Spray, Redcrest, Longfin, and possibly Pirn, Shadowcrest and Pearlare born (these three are lifemated to elders, but they might in fact have been younger than their partners). Then, some more time passes and Haze, Farbright, Drift and Fairshell are born.
At least 100+ years before OQ - Surgeis born to an adult Coral (at least 100+). Skimmer, Reef and a third healer (who lived to see Coral die, helped Snakeskin to create a protective coral barrier around Crest Point and died some undetermined time later) are also born within this time, because 100 years later there are "three healers" at Crest Point and two of them, at the very least, are Skimmer (the Broken One was said to be the "only one failure" she knew) and Reef (Reef might have been an early bloomer - he looked very youthful in his flashback - so I'm pinning him down as being born 80/70 years before his run-in with Winnowill). Toward the end spectrum of these 100 years - the WaveDancers settle at Crest Point, from which Reef came when he met Winnowill.
Short after SABM #8 - Reef (possibly not even 100 years old at the time) runs into Winnowill and is turned into the Broken One.
During the 9.000 years after Disappearance (KOTBW) - The only elf whose birth we can pin down with some certainty is Skimback, since he wasn't alive when Reef ran into Winnowill (he speaks of Reef's incident with the words; "The tale goes that he swam off alone..."). My guess is that he was born within the first 1000 years the tribe spent at Crest Point (he does act in a big-brotherly way toward Snakeskin, like he's older and wiser) and then there were a good 8000 years worth of stagnation - think Blue Mountain - before the tribe was blessed by "new spawnings". Failing that, he could be born in the last 1000 years of the disappearances, like Brill and the others.
About 9400 years after Disappearance - Brill, Krill, Darshek, Snakeskin and (possibly) Zephyr, Spine and maybe No-Ripple and Stormsong (if it's No-Ripple and Farbright looking over an injured male elf that Skimmer is healing in Surge's flashback - otherwise No-Ripple and Stormsong's births could have happened much further down the line, and the two elves in the panel might be Spine's parents... or No-Ripple's) are born (might account for Crest Point having been the WaveDancers home "since only a few spawnings" - an elf term for births, according to EQFQ#8 - at the time of Coral's death). Pirn dies of unknown reasons - other than illness and killed by humans, because the WD still didn't know men at that time - when Darshek is just a baby.
About 9450 years after Disappearance - Redcrest's plantshaping powers manifest when he's already an elder (Wavecatcher calls him "old Redcrest"). Compared to an average bloomer like Wavelet and early bloomers like Korafay and (possibly) Reef, he verges more toward Ahdri's end of the spectrum.
About 9500 years after Disappearance - Humans find Crest Point. Coral is killed, and Haze and Farbright die shortly after her funeral (all three of them were said to be "the first" elves killed by humans, so they probably died within very close distance. We know that Coral was the very first because an elf who looks like Haze and may be him is seen pushing her lifeless body in the waters - Farbright might as well be one of the shadows standing back at the funeral. By this time, Darshek, Brill - and Krill, since they're twins - as well as someone who looks an awful lot like either Zephyr or Strand - are all seen as adults.) Wavecatcher, Glimmer, Gull and Sandspinner are all born within 20 years or so before or after this event (Wavecatcher claims that Zephyr and the others knew little of the ocean beyond Crest Point, indicating they were all born after the tribe settled there to begin with). Sandsparkle, and Strand if that's not him pushing Coral's boat, are born some undetermined time after this (if the two shadows standing at Coral's funeral are Longfin and Shadowcrest, it is very possible that she was already pregnant when Coral died).
Less than 9520 years after Disappearance - Shadowcrest dies of unknown reasons, when Sandsparkle is only a pipling.
Between 9550-9886 years after Disappearance - The third healer living at Crest Point when Reef ran into Winnowill dies of unknown causes (we know for certain that he helped Snakeskin grow the coral barrier around Crest Point, and Skimmer was said to be the tribe's "only mature healer" when she died, which appears to indicate that he predeceased her. An alternative might be that though ancient, his powers were nowhere near as great as hers, in which case he might have been killed in the same storm season as Skimmer, Fairshell and Drift).
About 9700 years after Disappearance - Zephyr's band leaves Crest Point to look for a new home. Within a short amount of time (probably not even 10 years) they hit upon the shores of Cavernsong. Wavelet is born, but the colony is wiped out by war-faring humans shortly thereafter. The infant is found and rescued by Perith. Wavecatcher wakes up among the corpses and takes up wandering. Around the same time, at Crest Point, Foam (who is "too young to remember" Zephyr's band taking off) - and possibly Kroosh - are born.
About 9820 years after Disappearance - Wavelet discovers she's a plantshaper. Perith's son is an old man by this time, and his grand-son likely a grown up man. (A slight inconsistency with her looking like a pre-teen in the picture - or maybe she just developed slowly, like Tumble, Moonmirror and Puffer in later years).
About 9950 years after Disappearance - Ardan Djarum is born the bastard son of Grohmul Djun and an unknown mother.
About 9977 years after Disappearance - Moonmirror and Tumble are born (we know from Brill's words that in "The Discovery" they are physically "older than Sunstream", who is "two eights and two"). Stormsong probably dies when his son is very young or during the three years of No-Ripple's pregnancy. Around this time, Kahram is born from Ardan Djarum and a loveless wife he married, presumably a short time after Ellia's death.
About 9985 years after Disappearance - Puffer is born.
9999 years after Disappearance - First Skimmer, and then Drift and Fairshell are slained during the storm season (one year before the events in "Turning Tide" and "WaveDancers") by human whalers, including Kahram since the ship that killed Skimmer had the same insignia of the one his father would sail on a year later. Surge kills the humans, but leaves the tribe with his lifemate's body immediately thereafter and Snakeskin becomes the new chief.
9999 years after Disappearance - "Turning Tide", the WaveDancers storyline and the lost chapters take place, roughly around the same time as the Palace reappears. To date there are only nineteen elves (Salt, Spray, Surge, Redcrest, Longfin, the Broken One, Brill, Krill, Skimback, Sandsparkle, Darshek, Kroosh, Strand, Foam, Spine, No-Ripple, Tumble, Moonmirror and Puffer) living at Crest Point. All the other WaveDancers died at some point of others - and many of the Crest Point elves, at the very least, were killed by humans (according to Sunstream's statement that there have been many wrongs done to the WaveDancers by war-faring humans). Wavecatcher's story was originally meant to take place at the same time as the "main" storyline, but it's been almost certainly ret-conned to happen at a later time (see below).
7 years after Reappearance (SHARDS/NB) - Wavecatcher meets Yun, the first elf he comes across in near 300 years (roughly the span of five human lives since the destruction of Cavernsong, which is how long Wavelet was the Good Spirit of Plenty in the village of the people). He waits for her to return through eight-and-four floodings (I'm calculating 4 or 5 flooding - great floods, like in a monsoon? - per year, making it about three years he spent waiting). The Shards War (in Djunsland) and the Door War (in the Forevergreen) take place.
10 years after Reappearance (DISC/WD segments with Wavecatchers) - "The Discovery" takes place (one year after the end of "Searcher and the Sword"). Sunstream Recognizes Brill while in wrapstuff (about ten years after "Turning Tide" and the events of the "WaveDancers" storyline). The Palace visits the WaveDancers, and Surge meets his end in the destruction of Crest Point. Now led by Snakeskin, the WaveDancer set out to look for a new home. In the Forevergreen, Wavecatcher meets Windkin and together they run into Wavelet, who is iving in the Village of People - but it's unknown what becomes of them after Windkin's return to the Sun Village.
13 years after Reappearance (EQFQ) - Korafay is born in the "Final Quest Special". Windkin, having since returned in the forsaken Sun Village, is found and rescued by Leetah and Skywise.

The timeline then realigns and jumps ahead of 20-odd years
(+ the time between Bee's and Ruffel's death,
+ the time between Ruffel's death and Sunstream's return to the Palace
+ the time that Ember spent captive,
+ the time that it took Windkin to reach the Go-Backs lodge).

During this time, Angrif captures his half-brother Ardan Djarum (who was still bent on destroying the sea demons) and tortures him into insanity, after killing his own father (so depending on when the Djun's death takes place, we can roughly know for how long Ardan was kept captive. Wonder what did he do between the end of the "WaveDancers" story arc and his capture, though? His clothes and the background still suggest that he was a shipmaster, though with how intent he was on destroying the WaveDancers, there ought to be far more losses than just Sandsparkle's baby. Maybe he was imprisoned by the mutineers of his own ship?)

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Christina's (unofficial) WaveDancers timeline v. 2.0 Ba_hea10

Thanks to my dearest friend Embala for the signature! Healing currents, indeed... I love you

Over-the-moon Sunstream and Christina's (unofficial) WaveDancers timeline v. 2.0 Blinki12

'shipper
"She answered his faraway, telepathic call, introducing him to her watery domain. Her longings fulfilled, she knows he will soon go by another name on this world... and on many others. Will she go with him?"
Sunstream and Brill, 1999 "Lovemates" Calendar

Posts : 198 Join date : 2014-03-07

Some of my sources...

Flashback #1 (Turning Tide) - first elves to be killed by humans (if we want to be technical and *if* it's Haze who pushes Coral's boat in flashback #3, then Coral was the very first human victim, and Haze and Farbright probably died right after), as well as deaths that took part only "last storm season" before Turning Tide. We later learn that Skimmer died before Moonmirror's parents ("the storms had come and gone only twice since Skimmer and Surge vanished").

Flashback #2 (Metamorphosis) - set after Coral's death, when Surge wanted to fight the humans back.

Flashback #3 (EQ2#1) - Coral's funeral, set about 500 years before Turning Tide.

FLashback #3b (EQ2#1) - (cont.) from Coral's funeral to the departure of Zephyr's band (when?).

Flashback #4 (EQ2#2) - Skimmer healing a random elf. Took place before her death in the storm season before WD#1.

Flashback #5 (EQ2#5) - Wavecatcher recounts that he met Yun "eight-and-four floodings ago". What's a flooding and how often does it occurr?

Flashback #6 (EQ2#21) - Zephyr's band takes off from Crest Point (some undetermined time after Coral's death).

Flashback #6b (EQ2#21) - (cont. of the above) Zephyr's band settles at Cavernsong after much time at sea. Later on, Wavelet is born.

Flashback #6c (EQ2#21) - (cont. of the above) Zephyr's band is slaughtered, when Wavelet's still a tiny infant (Marish found her a newborn babe in the woods). If we can figure out Wavelet's age then we'd know indicatively for how long Wavecatcher has been wandering before he met Yun. Trickier to say how much time it took for Zephyr's band to reach Cavernsong so we can figure out how much spent they spent journeying and how much in their new home.

Flashback #7 (EQ2#31) - WaveDancers have already settled at Crest Point, and there are three healers in the tribe, when young Reef goes off to explore.

Flashback #7b (EQ2#31) - (cont. of above) set short after Tyldak dropped Winnowill in the island at the end of SABM. Reef runs into her.

Flashback #7c (EQ2#31) - (cont. of above) Reef is "broken" by Winnowill.

Flashback #8 (EQ2#31) - First and only mention of Stormsong and how he died. No hint as to where his death should be placed in the timeline, tho.

Flashback #14 (missing chapters) - Darshek sees the ghostly Pirn and Shadowcrest. If he knows what both of his mother's lifemates looked like, he must be the oldest of the siblings (because Pirn died when he was just a baby. Longfin says that "Darshek barely knew his father Pirn", and Salt later comments "Pirn will be happy to see the grown son he last saw as a newborn pip". So Pirn, at the very least, was already long deceased at the time of Coral's funeral in flashback #1).

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Thanks to my dearest friend Embala for the signature! Healing currents, indeed... I love you

Over-the-moon Sunstream and Christina's (unofficial) WaveDancers timeline v. 2.0 Blinki12

'shipper
"She answered his faraway, telepathic call, introducing him to her watery domain. Her longings fulfilled, she knows he will soon go by another name on this world... and on many others. Will she go with him?"
Sunstream and Brill, 1999 "Lovemates" Calendar

Posts : 198 Join date : 2014-03-07

Misc speculations, with insightful entries from @Embala! Very Happy

I wished to quote @RedheadEmber's posts too, but I couldn't find her in the member list and I'm not going to post the without her permission... Red, hope you can find your way here!

Birth orders; first draft.

Spoiler:

ChristinaRaibert wrote:: Coral is said to have died "more than eight eights of eight" before "Turning Tide", so approx 500 years, during the Palace's disappearance. By that time, we know that:
- Brill (and Krill, since they're twins) was already alive, and Haze and Farbright not yet dead (I may be wrong but I'm very much persuaded the elf pushing Coral's boat into the water is none other than Haze himself. The face features are spot on, although he wears a different outfit).
- Darshek, also a grown up
- Longfin - this one is self-obvious, or we wouldn't have Darshek
- Redcrest, said to have shaped the boat where Coral's body was put
- Surge, who was already an adult as well
- Spray (and probably Salt, since he's the absolute eldest of them)
- Reef AKA The Broken One (who was at the time already broken - see below)
- Probably Skimmer (again, see below)
- Spine (since it's him who tells the story, not as if he's merely heard it from another storyteller, but as if he was truly there when it happend - eg. "WE placed her body in the finest of Redcrest's boats...")
- (Possibly) Strand - an elf who has long hair pulled back helped Haze (?) push Coral's body in the water. *If* that is him, there are good chances that Pearl, Redcrest's lifemate, was alive already - assuming her to be the mother of both boys, Kroosh (younger) and Strand.
- (Possibly) Fairshell (an elf who looks much like her can be seen standing behind Surge in a flashback while he's talking to a couple who looks suspiciously like Haze and Farbright).

Zephyr's band took off some undetermined time after that episode - Surge "trained" the WaveDancers for defense after the death of his mother - and we know for certain that Foam wasn't born until well after that; she said in WD that she's too young to remember of the tribe's split. Snakeskin, I'm ambivalent about - he sure speaks of Zephyr and his band as if he recalls them personally, but he's not shown grieving with his father at Coral's funeral, nor immediately thereafter. It is also significant that Spine never once mentions him in the story. My idea is that he was born right after or short after his grandmother died, between her slaying and Zephyr taking off with his followers; he could have very well been a pip at that time, which would make him younger than Wavecatcher. Wavecatcher is another tough one - if we knew how much time exactly passed between Zephyr's venture and Coral's death we might know whether or not he was alive at that time. Right now he's a "maybe", I'll have to re-read his parts to see if I find any clues in there.

However we know of at least one event that took place before Coral's death, and that is when Winnowill "broke" the Broken One. That must have taken place not very long after she was dropped on that island by Tyldak - she looked way more weak and needy than in KOTBW, when she's standing in the rain and has that defiant look to her. So it must be even before the Palace's disappearance, roughly between SABM and KOTBW (this might partly contradict with Spine's statement that Crest Point had been the WaveDancers home since "only a few spawnings", but we don't know how exactly what he means by "spawnings" and how often these occurs. Another possibility may be that the WaveDancers hadn't settled at Crest Point yet by that time, and were still wandering in "fish school mode" - but the flashback about him in EQ2 says clearly that Reef was "from the elfin settlement of Crest Point". Either one of the two captions is to be believed a mistake or a "spawning" could occurr only rarely in a thousand years - we just don't know.)

By the time Reef (referred to as "the young WaveDancer") meets Winnowill, he's "one of the three healers" of Crest Point. If he's one, and Skimmer is the other (because we know she worked to restore him. Surge says to Snakeskin; "Your mother knew only one failure - and you were right to remind me of him"), the third could be either Skimback or Snakeskin (which would make him very much alive at the time of Coral's death). But Snakeskin said that "something in the far past" made the Broken One "broken", and the vague way in which he mentions his accident makes me think the third healer might indeed have been either Skimback or another character we don't know about. I'm tempted to go with Skimback, and if I am right, that would make him one of the oldest WaveDancers who's *not* an "elder". Salt, Spray, Longfin and Redcrest are all adressed as such, meaning they were older than him; Surge and Skimmer might have been either much older or (at least in Skimmer's case) around his same age, either ways adult if both Skimmer and Skimback had already come into their own as tribe healers. Since Redcrest strikes me as the "youngest" of the elders, though, I'm guessing he was only slightly older than Surge.

So if we were to order the births, this is what I have thus far;
- Salt (the eldest)
- Coral (but she could have been older than Salt as she predeceased him; Salt is only the eldest living WaveDancer).
- Spray (called "elder")
- Longfin (called "elder")
- Redcrest (called "elder")
- Surge
- Skimmer
- Skimback
- Reef (probably born not even 100 years before Winnowill made him "broken")
? Haze, Farbright, and possibly Fairshell (though whether they're older or younger than Spine we have no guess)
- Spine (between the Broken One's incident and Coral's death - again, he could be older than Haze, Farbright and Fairshell)
- Darshek, Brill, Krill, and possibly Strand (adults or young adults at the time of Coral's funeral)
? Zephyr, Wavecatcher, Gull, Sandspinner (could be born before or after Coral's funeral)
- Snakeskin (not alive when Coral died, but remembers Zephyr & co)
- Wsvelet
- Foam (and possibly Kroosh but I can't be certain)
- Tumble and Moonmirror
- Puffer
- Korafay

No-Ripple, or an elf who looked a lot like her, was seen standing behind Skimmer as she healed an injured male elf, but we have no idea when that took place so she could have been born any time between Skimmer's birth and her death (a season before "Turning Tide"). Stormsong, Pirn, Shadowcrest and Drift can't be placed anywhere because we don't know enough about them; Pirn was certainly born before Coral's funeral, or we wouldn't have Darshek, but it's tough to say if Longfin was in a threesome with him and Shadowcrest or if she Recognized first one and then the other. The same goes for Sandsparkle; we don't see her in any flashback and we only know that her father died when she was a pip, but when that might be, there are no clues. As for Stormsong, I believe he died when No-Ripple was pregnant (Tumble doesn't seem to recall much of his father), but even here we don't know if he was older or younger than his brother Spine.

So the ones we can't "place" in birth orders are;
? - Stormsong
? - Pirn
? - Shadowcrest
? - Drift
? - Sandsparkle
? - Stormsong
? - No-Ripple
? - Kroosh

Floodings, and Wavecatcher

Spoiler:

Age of Redcrest

Spoiler:

ChristinaRaibert wrote:: Also - proof that I was right about Redcrest being younger than most elders! Coral's body was said to have been placed in one of his FIRST boats, so he had only just recently came into his wood-shaping powers when she died. You know... I'm actually starting to think he may be younger than Skimback. And now that I think about it - I have to look up when and if he was said to be an elder? Hmmm.... *dives back in WD-lore*.

ChristinaRaibert wrote:: Update Jan 2014; Turned out I was wrong about Redcrest not being an elder despite his grandfather status. In one of the last published chapters, Wavecatcher refers to him as "old Redcrest" - so he must have been born way earlier than the + 700 years before WD#1 I originally had him at, during the first 9000 years of the Disappearance.

Since Coral's boat is said to be his "first", that means he discovered his plantshaping gifts when he was already elderly, so we have an late bloomer compared to Wavelet (who I believe was a pretty average age for an elf-child when her powers manifested) and exceptionally early bloomers like Leetah, Mender and Korafay.

Which leads me to wonder what he might have been like before becoming the tribe's resident plantshaper. Hey, remember the talk about his hair going to and fro between straight and short and long and curly? Maybe he was the WaveDancers hairstylist, after all! If the Gliders had two elves working over Clearbrook's 'do - nothing forbids Redcrest is their WD equivalent, no? Tongue

Who knows if there were other plantshapers in the tribe before him and Wavelet? Probably yes, considering the great number of magic users... but if he had been the only one to shape wood, it might explain why no WaveDancer ever tried to leave Crest Point in over 9000 years (although admittedly, it was a safe enough home for most of the time! Humans only showed up in more recent years, after Redcrest had come into his own.) I know it's not-canon, but didn't the slave girl Windkin rescued from that troll say something about her tribe's migration/s and how it involved swimming, not sailing? If they had to swim all the way to Crest Point (and she made it sound like it wasn't "a flick of a fin"!), obviously they would not endure the same hardships without a good reason.

But once the tribe had a wood-shaper to shape trees into crafts that could carry them across the ocean, and humans began a nuisance - little wonder the youngest tribe-members leaped at the chance to sail off with Zephyr!

(BTW speaking of Zephyr, Embala pointed out in the thread about Shadowcrest that of the two elves pushing Coral's lifeless body into the water, one looks like Haze - but the other definitely looks like a younger Zephyr! Given he's about as tall as Haze (who's a grown-up, and with adult daughters to boot) that would make Zephyr a few years older than Wavecatcher & co, logically when you think he was the leader of the expedition. My bet is that he was at least 120/150 years - already taking responsibilities upon his shoulders, already mature for his age, already confident and enough self-assured to lead a band of young WaveDancers into unknown waters, some 200 years later.)

Wavelet and the village of the people

Spoiler:

ChristinaRaibert wrote:: Hmm... how long do you suppose a human's lifespan in the Forevergreen jungle may be? 'cuz Wavelet spent "five human generations" in that village.

Embala wrote:: Talked with a friend about this ... 50 years average (if they survived childhood), 60 when they grew old. And they will procreate early - in their 20th and young 30th ... females might be much younger!

Was it "five generations" or "five generations since Perith"? Would make it six generations then.

ChristinaRaibert wrote:

Five, according to Windkin. So that'd make her 300, most of which Wavecatcher spent wandering around - until he met Yun (he said he didn't move again in the hope that she'd return). Poor Wavecatcher - little wonder after so long time, it must have seemed to him a wonder to see another elfin face!

If Coral's death was 500 years before the current WD story, that leaves about 200 years for Zephyr's band to leave Crest Point and establish at Cavernsong. Let me re-read the passage...

Wavecatcher wrote:: "How many turns have I searched? How many turns since we left Crest Point to seek a second home... to find that peace that comes only when one has one's fish in several nets... How full of confidence Zephyr was... even though he, like we, knew little of the vast sea beyond our shore. So much the leader! And, after days upon days, how beautiful the new land looked... We named it Cavernsong, for the way the breezes whispered and sang as they blew past the caves we made into homes... And comfort we did find - in the bounty from the ocean... in the gentleness of the skies... and in even more joyous ways... in new life!

Makes sense. Although it says nothing specific of how much time they passed at sea, I'm guessing it wasn't that much by elf standard - he speaks of "days upon days", but not of "turns". So my guess is that while it took *years* to get from Crest Point to Cavernsong ("an ocean's breadth away"), it's still a relatively little amount in term of elf life. Even just a year would have little importance to the eyes of immortals like Zephyr and Wavecatcher, no?

And bingo! Wavecatcher says clearly that none of those who were in the band knew anything about the oceans beyond Crest Point. Spine says that Crest Point was their home since only a few spawning when Coral died, so Zephyr's band is younger than all those who first settled in that very home (at the very least up to Skimmer and Skimback). So at the time of Coral's death they could be anything from young pips to not even born. That sets me in my belief that they sailed off toward the end of the 200 years lapse between Coral's death and their arrival at Crest Point.

Embala wrote:: Think again, Christina. A generation is not the average lifetime of an individual but the average reproduction period. This would have been 20 to max. 30 years.

ChristinaRaibert wrote:

My bad - I misremembered that quote His exact words are;

Wavecatcher wrote:: "You've been here the span of five humans lives?"

and she said mere moments before;

Wavelet wrote:: "Perith was the first one I know. He had a son, and that son had a son. And from that man's son came Marish, the village elder who cares for me now."

So we have to count Marish as a full 60s, since he's an elder by the time Windkin and Wavecatcher run into his village.

But there's more!

Wavelet recounts how she came into her own plantshaping powers;

Wavelet wrote:: "After the battle, he (Perith) brought me here and raised me along with his other children. [...] But one day, when Perith's son was an old man, I found that I could make plants grow and bear fruit with a touch. Since that day, the village has called me Good Spirit of Plenty."

Yay Now *that* takes me a step closer to figure out where everyone fits in the timeline! Let's see... Perith's child was an old man when her powers manifested. So that makes at least 60 years if he was born about the same time as her. But when she says "Perith was the first I've known. He had a son", it makes me think she was at least old enough to remember when Perith's child was born (Perith seemed quite young when he ran into her - I can easily imagine him being twenty-odd, though his sharp features make him appear older). So... if he sired his "son" (she speaks of other children too, but I think she means it metaphorically - as in that he was the human leader and raised her with the children *of the tribe*), say, twenty year after he found her - and she'd still be a pip, since the Tumble, Puffer and Moonmirror while older than Sunstream are considered to be children still - that'd make her around 80 when her powers manifested.

Now, of course, there will be earlier and later bloomers - Korafay's magic abilities became obvious mere hours after her birth (although one can argue that might have something to do with her father being so special, as well as with the closeness of a piece of the Palace). But I'm assuming it's fairly normal for a WaveDancer magic user, at roughly 100 years old, to get a first brush with their magic.

Wavelet looks like she's barely hit her teens in the flashback - so, considering she could be anything from 60 to 80, it makes sense that at 100 a WaveDancer could be considered a "youth", and a young adult at 200. (We'll have to see how fast Korafay develops in the 40 years of the Prologue, though she seems to have a head start in just about everything, so it wouldn't surprise me one bit if she looked older than her age. After all, her father would be a mere pip by WaveDancers standard, but his soul is much older and akin to a High One's so...)

What this tells me;

- Zephyr and his band can indeed be 200 when they left Crest Point - they're certainly adults, but "young" by tribes standard, and it would make perfect sense that the young generations sail off to look for a new, safer home - while the elders linger back, uncertain and disapproving. My bet is that Zephyr & co were young pips when Coral died, and Snakeskin was born later - that could be a few years or more or less a century.

- Redcrest was at least 100 by the time of Coral's death - as the one that took her to the sea was his FIRST boat. Maybe even 150/ish - I guess even for a magic user it'd take some training to go from first woodshaping attempts to the creation of a fleet of boats; I doubt he could do that overnight. If he was an average-late bloomer, he might have even been 200 which would make it plausible for Strand to be the long-haired elf pushing Coral's boat in the water.

- Darshek, Brill and Krill were all at the very least 100 years - or older - because they all looked grown up, and Darshek himself is later shown shaping the tip of a spear in stone. I believe Redcrest is slightly older than them (but not by far), and Strand may very well be the same age as them.

Skimback

Spoiler:

Age and development of pips

Spoiler:

ChristinaRaibert wrote:: The problem is figuring how quickly the WaveDancers pips age!

Right now we have the following to work on. Sunstream is 18 when he Recognized Brill, and she says that Tumble, Puffer and Moonmirror are (physically) "older than him". That could make them any age from 20 to 40, or even older...

... because in Wavelet's recollection, she says that ""After the battle, he (Perith) brought me here and raised me along with his other children. <...> But one day, when Perith's son was an old man, I found that I could make plants grow and bear fruit with a touch. Since that day, the village has called me Good Spirit of Plenty."

And the flashback shows her as being very young, barely a teen. Now, we don't know how old Perith's son was at the time of Wavelet's birth - she says "Perith had a son, and that son had a son". Does we have to take it litterally and assume that his son was born after her - something she witnessed - or merely her way of explaining to Windkin and Wavecatcher how long she's been alive, by human generations (possibly the only way of "counting" she knew)?

I guess we'll figure out more when we see Korafay in Final Quest - she should be roughly 40-odd. Chitter acts and looks like a young adult, but she's a Wolfrider. I wonder if Korafay, born within few years from her, will look older or younger - and especially how tall, compared to her parents. That would take me a step closer to figure out the ages of the Crest Point pips, and of Wavelet when she discovered her talents.

S

P

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In the preview pages for issue #1, Sunstream says she's "well grown"... though we don't know to what extent yet. He might just mean that she's not a baby anymore and he feels confident leaving her, and the WaveDancers, for longer time to carry out his duty. Or he could litterally mean that she's grown-up like Chitter - we'll just have to wait and see!

(Of course, this also brings up the question of how old she is psychically. Her father at 18 was already responsible and "grown up" in his own way, so Korafay might take after him being the next "child prodigy". But it might not be the same for all WaveDancers kids.

"Since only a few spawnings"

Spoiler:

Snakeskin's age

Spoiler:

Korafay in "Final QUest" Special

Spoiler:

The timeline in the "WaveDancers" story arc

Spoiler:

ChristinaRaibert wrote:

YAY! Snakeskin, Surge and Spine's bios are up - and they shed some light over the timeline!

Quote :: When Surge returned from self-imposed exile, father and son were soon at odds, though it would be many years before their antagonism came to a head.

Quote :: Though many years passed, matters came to a head when Snakeskin’s longstanding attempts to heal the Broken One triggered a confrontation.

It's still vague, but at least gives me a clearer indication of how much time was elapsed between the two storylines! Looks like I'll have to move "Turning Tide" and "Wavedancers" much earlier than I currently have them. My guess is five or six years after the birth of Puffer (he did look really young in "WaveDancers" IMHO), and then thirteen/fourteen years pass between those events and Sunstream's meeting with Brill on the astral plane.

(Does this mean that Sandsparkle and Skimback actually had their baby, if just for a little while? I certainly hope so!)

What does not fit is Wavecatcher... at least if we're to believe the captions that set his story at the identical same time of the "WaveDancers" story arc. According to my estimations, Puffer was born about seventeen years before "Shards" - but there's only a year between "Shards" and the "New Blood" arc with the Door war in the Forevergreen. So Wavecatcher could not run into Windkin when Puffer was just six - 'cause he still had not met Yun.

My sense is that we're to disregard the implication that the two stories took place in the same time-frame. Just as with Ardan Djarum being a descendant of the Djun, a fact that obviously got retconned (he might be a distant relative - perhaps he was originally born in the Citadel and then moved to Farcast.) If "WaveDancers" took place at a completely different time from Wavecatcher and Windkin's adventures - then it all fits; it's Windkin who ran into Wavecatcher one year before Discovery, then he parted ways from him and Wavelet (don't tell me someone killed them? My ominous feeling about their fate is growing stronger and stronger by the minute... and I pray I'm wrong) and returned to the abandoned Sun Village, where he was picked up three years later by Leetah and Skywise.

(This still begs to know why Windkin never mentioned Wavelet and Wavecatcher to the other WaveDancers, during the time Sunstream lived with them? Or he did, and we'll be meeting them in future installments? I'm hoping very much that it's so - either this or they decided to found their own tribe - because the only alternative leads back to the ominous feeling I mentioned above, and I don't want to go there)

RedheadEmber wrote:

ChristinaRaibert wrote:: (Does this mean that Sandsparkle and Skimback actually had their baby, if just for a little while? I certainly hope so!)

Me too!

ChristinaRaibert wrote:: but there's only a year between "Shards" and the "New Blood" arc with the Door war in the Forevergreen.

Actually, 'Shards' took place at the same time as the 'Forevergreen Arc'. Dart and co. went to the Forevergreen after the Palace had shattered, and after the Palace had been restored the band (sans Jethel, Chot, and Dodia) were picked up in the ruins of the human town.

ChristinaRaibert wrote:: either this or they decided to found their own tribe

The same way Savah and Yurek did?

ChristinaRaibert wrote:

RedheadEmber wrote:: Me too!

Maybe we could even get some flashbacks as to how s/he looked like Laughing Pike

RedheadEmber wrote:: Actually, 'Shards' took place at the same time as the 'Forevergreen Arc'. Dart and co. went to the Forevergreen after the Palace had shattered, and after the Palace had been restored the band (sans Jethel, Chot, and Dodia) were picked up in the ruins of the human town.

Ah, okay, I misremembered that one Cutter Smile

So Wavecatcher would have spent about two years waiting for Yun (not that he counted, tho) before he ran into Windkin. Something more if that story took place during Brill's pregnancy.

RedheadEmber wrote:: The same way Savah and Yurek did?

Yeah, possibly Cutter Smile

They could have headed inland and joined Jethel, Chot, No-Name and Dodia (if she wasn't killed by those humans chasing them). Or maybe they took to the water - in which case they might end up even on Rayek's trail, for all we know!

RedheadEmber wrote:: You do know what I meant by the same way Savah and Yurek did right?

ChristinaRaibert wrote:: *chuckles* They're going to repeatedly Recognize each other?

On Wavecatcher

Spoiler:

On Ardan Djarum, Kahram and Grohmul Djun...

Spoiler:

No-Ripple and Stormsong

Spoiler:

___________________________________________________

Thanks to my dearest friend Embala for the signature! Healing currents, indeed... I love you

Over-the-moon Sunstream and Christina's (unofficial) WaveDancers timeline v. 2.0 Blinki12

'shipper
"She answered his faraway, telepathic call, introducing him to her watery domain. Her longings fulfilled, she knows he will soon go by another name on this world... and on many others. Will she go with him?"
Sunstream and Brill, 1999 "Lovemates" Calendar

Posts : 198 Join date : 2014-03-07

(Reserved for more speculations and musings - don't know if there's a word limit for post so just in case!)

___________________________________________________

Thanks to my dearest friend Embala for the signature! Healing currents, indeed... I love you

Over-the-moon Sunstream and Christina's (unofficial) WaveDancers timeline v. 2.0 Blinki12

'shipper
"She answered his faraway, telepathic call, introducing him to her watery domain. Her longings fulfilled, she knows he will soon go by another name on this world... and on many others. Will she go with him?"
Sunstream and Brill, 1999 "Lovemates" Calendar

Posts : 928 Join date : 2015-03-25

Christina's here too! *glomp/hug* Welcome! ^_^

Posts : 198 Join date : 2014-03-07

manga wrote:: Christina's here too! *glomp/hug* Welcome! ^_^

Manga!!

*glomps back*

It's almost like the old Scroll never went down sunny

___________________________________________________

Thanks to my dearest friend Embala for the signature! Healing currents, indeed... I love you

Over-the-moon Sunstream and Christina's (unofficial) WaveDancers timeline v. 2.0 Blinki12

'shipper
"She answered his faraway, telepathic call, introducing him to her watery domain. Her longings fulfilled, she knows he will soon go by another name on this world... and on many others. Will she go with him?"
Sunstream and Brill, 1999 "Lovemates" Calendar

Posts : 198 Join date : 2014-03-07

Included @RedheadEmber's bits from the old forum and this is successfully carried over too! YAY!

___________________________________________________

Thanks to my dearest friend Embala for the signature! Healing currents, indeed... I love you

Over-the-moon Sunstream and Christina's (unofficial) WaveDancers timeline v. 2.0 Blinki12

'shipper
"She answered his faraway, telepathic call, introducing him to her watery domain. Her longings fulfilled, she knows he will soon go by another name on this world... and on many others. Will she go with him?"
Sunstream and Brill, 1999 "Lovemates" Calendar

» Unofficial Elf Maker in the works- opinions needed!