Final Quest #11

Just thought of another reason why Strongbow's so upset. When he dies, he can go to Moonshade and send to her all he wants, but he won't be able to BE with her. They won't be able to touch or hold each other, or wander the world together, like Kahvi and Tyldak seemed to be capable of when they died.

I guess Strongbow was hoping when they met their natural end, either of old age or accident, they'd be together in death. Now, unless Moonshade dies of an accident herself, they can't be.

Ohhh... if Timmain does turn out to be the Big Bad I would be sooooooo happy!

But at this point I'm still very much afraid that there is no twist, that Timmain really is Aslan, that all the elves except the diehard Wolfriders leave Abode (the Wolfriders stay, howl hunt and eventually die out, thus learning all those lessons of pain Timmy loves too much), and everyone lives happily ever after in New Age copypasta heaven!

...except Rayek of course, because out of all the side-series that could get quietly de-canonified, W and R seem to want to keep Rogues Curse!

That is a hugely good point about Strongbow, Multi-Facets. Now I'm even sadder about them. ;__;

I agree with many others that Timmain is coming off as creepy, regardless of intent. It seems very possible at this point Timmain might very well feature as an antagonist if not a full-on villain (well-intentioned extremist, maybe?). And I think Skywise may be on the verge of doing a very, very bad thing. If he takes away everyone's choice, one way or the other, how is that any better than what Rayek was going to do, or even Winnowill?

What if Timmain straight up impersonates Cutter (except she doesn't view it as impersonation because of the whole "sharing the same soul" business) and tells Skywise, "Your Tam is totally going to the stars with you!"

Tam wrote:

Okay, I must be one of the only ones on here who likes the Wavedancers. XD But I REALLY like mermaids, so that's probably part of it. I understand that they don't want to flee forever...but they're not stupid, they should have some caves to retreat to to wait out the humans, they should have coral traps...coral traps would really be the best, just sink all the ships, done.

I care for the Wavedancers. I like them because of the color, the variety they add the EQ. In case they are badly developed I say: Write them better, dammit! and not Kill them off!

And I know that fans are here who LOVE the Wavedancers unconditionally. If only for those I wish them alive.

The WD represent what I always liked abbout eQ. It was a spreading world with new facets added for each cycle. The Wolfriders find the Trolls. Then the Sunfolk. The Preservers - the Gliders  - the Go-Backs - and finally the Wavedancers. "TheCall" everyone was looking forward to (both Elves and fans) promises even more kin, more variety, more life.

Instead the Final Quest turns out more and more bringing death. Not talking about single victims like Ruffel. The great anticipated "Call" brought ... next to nothing so far.

We know there are Tree Elves who don't wish to come and the Wolfriders are not allowed to contact them.
There are the Go-Backs - showing up again with some appropriate skirmish ... and disapear in the Palace. Aurek returned ... from living death in BM to loneliness under BM to sort of living death as the Scroll Keeper. Dre-Ahn showed up ... a loner but at least ONE new elf! Yes, I have a soft spot for him already.
A female elf wanted to come and was killed. Who cares - her spirit made it in the Palace to melt with the masses there. Everything is fine. A couple made it ... but they need to keep in wrapsuff because they were too hurt. Oh, that's totally fine.
The Sunfolk ... even the better known ones turn into usually mute extras. Redlance, Nightfall - extras.

There is a mood that makes us believe that whole tribes will probably be extinct. Why not? It doesn't matter anyway. They will join the Palace in spirit form and will live on and have fun. PUCKERNUTS.

It's cool to have some active, happy, kicking spirits being around. I realize that life and death and afterlife are very different for elves than for us human readers. But when death aka afterlife or the living death in the Palace becomes a generally desirable option the whole story of the Final Quest becomes meaningless for me. Struggle, live longer, have cubs and finally die ... or die faster ... - it doesn't matter. Spirit life is greater anyway.

There's nothing I can relate to. *sigh* I KNOW that this is less than half of the whole cycle. The FQ can still end in a great surprising satisfying solution. Everything can make sense once the whole tale is told.
But - what I've said before is how I feel. It is what I expect from the story. And this makes me so indifferent about the FQ ... it's sad.
I'll read on because I need closure. Because I need to know what Wendy has planed "from the very beginning" for the elves I still love. I'm not curious for the story anymore. I don't hope or fear for the elves. It's like I don't consider this cycle canon ...

In this light things can only get better.

I'm 100% with you, Embala. This story feels like an alternative universe (and certainly not as good as the Alternaverse ), at best. Some sort of...fork in the timeline. The lack of response to the call is SO disappointing...I love Dre-Ahn, but like...where's everyone else? Why can't we meet these other elves who have arrived? There's been SO much build-up to this call, decades-long build-up, just from revealing that Suntop is the link...and now the call goes out and we get almost nothing. I hope that we will get to meet them in a more substantial way as the story goes on, but if FQ is speculated to be 24 issues, we're almost halfway through. My hope dwindles with each issue.

Embala, you got me thinking that it would be great to see a couple of issues here and there throughout FQ from the perspective of the afterlive/spiritworld. If the living elves are so darn drawn to it, to where it's now a full-blown compulsion, then wouldn't it be interesting to see some kind of peek as to what's going on , on the other side? Because it's not mysterious or suspenseful anymore now... it's just annoying and eye-rollingly repetitive now that the spirit world and the afterlife within the palace are so much a part of it and yet it's not being shown HOW exactly it's special.
If there would be an issue here and there seeing even those long-dead and those we don't even know interacting with each other, having their own conversations, if we get to see things through THEIR eyes, how they view the living elves, it might be kind of interesting.

I think as far as Strongbow's concerned, Moonshade and Skywise have CHOSEN to reject being Wolfriders, not just the blood, but also the history and traditions of being a Wolfrider, the Way, all of it. Strongbow's been fighting against what must seem like his people's extinction for the majority of his life, so to have his lifemate(especially after it seemed like she came back, tbh, that struck me as disingenuous of her) choose not just to remove her wolfblood, but to leave their home, kids, everything that makes them them must be terrifying.

This might help to build up understanding, Zadzi. At least it would illustrate that there still is some sort of LIFE in the afterlife. A whirl of light or one hyperactive Kahvi outburst is not enough for me to feel them as existing characters anymore. Zhantee throwing a shield, Lutei being postillon d'amour, Bearclaw and Joyleaf being drawn to Dre-Ahn ... this is charming. I love such scenes but they do nothing to explain why spirit life is so desirable. It's more like they are drawn to the living world because they care for those still alive - and be bored with their existence.

No, not explain - illustrate! I'm a visual tipe and there is already too much explained or must be implied by the reader. I never had problems with "Why was this not shown...? That not told...? Why did whatever not happen...?" when it comes to some small gaps in character interaction or storytelling in the past. It was easy for me to imply some facets within the big picture.
Now I have the feeling that we are supposed to imply the story, to explain for ourselves the major part of character interaction and developement.
As much as I like to envision my own little stories and completations - I need to SEE to enjoy a graphic novel to the full!

The former quests made the world spread, the characters develope and grow. For me the Final Quest makes the world shrink to Palace size and the characters regress into puppets so far.

Tam wrote:

The lack of response to the call is SO disappointing...I love Dre-Ahn, but like...where's everyone else?

In the Palace.

And something tells me we'll run into those Tree-Elves pretty soon. Don't think they've answered The Call, since they saw it as an annoyance(sp?).

kathleen3.0 wrote:

I think as far as Strongbow's concerned, Moonshade and Skywise have CHOSEN to reject being Wolfriders, not just the blood, but also the history and traditions of being a Wolfrider, the Way, all of it.

Some, Skywise and Moonshade, may have rejected The Way, but others have chosen it. Leetah and Teir most specifically. The Chief's mates; feeling the pull of the Palace strongly because they're pureblooded, but feeling the pull of The Way even stronger because of Tam and Zheel respectively.

Tam wrote:

Dre-Ahn. I love him. I think he's adorable and I just adore him.

I have to ask - why?
He's done absolutely nothing. Spoken no actual words, really.
He seems to serve absolutely no purpose.
Other than to look like the son of what looks to be a mixture of Tier and Redlance.

Tam wrote:

Skywise and Timmain ... I also don't like how those two are flat while Cutter and Leetah are better-shaded. It makes more sense for Nightfall and Redlance to be flatly colored, being in the background, but Skywise and Timmain are closer to the front.

My impression is not so much that they're flat - it's that they're "glowing" - and they're glowing the most because they're the ones who have really "Drank the Palace Kool-Aid." (If you're not familiar with the expression - for those outside of the United States, which is quite a bit on here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid explains what I mean).

Tam wrote:

it doesn't feel like Elfquest at all. I miss the little things. The character development. The focus on relationships...platonic, romantic, interspecies, whatever. Small lessons that illustrate the nature of such large concepts. Love, pain, death, life, one's place in the world. I feel like the Pinis are skipping over all that to rush to this metaphysical oddness that is not explained and very confusing and I just don't like it. And like others, I'm a completionist and I will continue to get the damn issues because I just have to know, but I will gnash my teeth the whole way, damn it. -.- And perhaps it should be, they're not getting any younger. But the quality has taken a serious dip in every arena of production.

I can only say 101% ditto.

My break down...

It opens with Dre-Ahn, who I care nothing for. Not that I don't want to, but there's absolutely nothing that makes this character interesting to me (so far). But the Pinis seem to think he's a big deal and keep cramming him down our throat like he's important. Well if he is, they're taking forever to make something of it. (Not that they've had a problem with pacing throughout Final Quest or anything...)

Then the random, "Hey these life mates endured a lot, and had to be in wrapstuff..." I hope that comes into play in the future, because it seems pretty random...

The trolls were great to see, though I don't give two squats about Mender. Then we move to Skywise and Timmain... And I understand among elves, there isn't a genetic issue, of cousins making love or whatever.... but Skywise is essentially making love to his great, great, great, great, great (times a few more) grandmother... granted, she's got an amazing body for her age - but still. Odd. But you know what, push past that.

Moonshade and Strongbow - I dislike the sundering of these two. She has always been by his side and supported him, even if she knew he was too thick headed and sometimes wrong. But okay, things change.

Now I didn't read a lot after OG/SaBM/KotBW, but the Dart and Mender thing seems suddenly rushed? Or has that been set up, and they just haven't shown it for the past 11 issues... (pacing anyone?)

Back to Skywise and Timmain... that's just an odd scene when she leaves... I thought for a moment the lodestone was going to play a significant role (which I think it will later; like it will point in the direction "home" that the High Ones came from or something...)

Then Moonshade and Leetah and Moonshade giving up her wolf blood - not at all unexpected, as I felt that dragged that on entirely too long (pacing anyone?)...

Then Moonshade's surprised reaction to Strongbow... really? Would she expect anything else? Seemed stupid. Moonshade may have followed and sided with Strongbow, almost always, but she was never stupid nor naive.

The men coming to get rid of the Wavedancers, so be it, I say.

And then the final reveal... WTF? I mean, seriously, WTF? I don't even understand it.

Tymber wrote:

Now I didn't read a lot after OG/SaBM/KotBW, but the Dart and Mender thing seems suddenly rushed? Or has that been set up, and they just haven't shown it for the past 11 issues...

I think most of the development happened during the 10-year timeskip during issue 10.
Before that Mender hinted at crushing on Dart during the talk in issue 7.

kathleen3.0 wrote:

I think as far as Strongbow's concerned, Moonshade and Skywise have CHOSEN to reject being Wolfriders, not just the blood, but also the history and traditions of being a Wolfrider, the Way, all of it. Strongbow's been fighting against what must seem like his people's extinction for the majority of his life, so to have his lifemate(especially after it seemed like she came back, tbh, that struck me as disingenuous of her) choose not just to remove her wolfblood, but to leave their home, kids, everything that makes them them must be terrifying.

Come to think of it, it does seem somewhat a shitty thing to do...Moonshade coming back to stay for a season and Strongbow out of his mind with happiness at having her back...only to have her blood entirely removed. It would've ben nice to at least see snippets of their reunion before she just hammers out, hey I'm going to get my blood removed, okay?

Also, I just don't get it. Leetah's immortal and embraced the Way. She doesn't want to live in the palace. Rather, she's mindful of the pull to be there but she's made a choice not to because the Way has 'grown' on her.
Moondshade is all about the palace and feels she needs to remove her wolfblood in order to fully commit to that direction. Again, let me just bring up that the mortal elves generally  do not seem to feel comfortable in the palace, which is why Moonshade thing never clicked for me. They see the palace as the holiest of places but staying there for longer doesn't feel comfortable for them. So why is Moonshade the exception? I just don't understand. Is it like she is forcing herself to be more comfortable by removing her wolfblood so she adapt fully? I'm  sorry to harp on this, I just don't understand it. Skywise gave up his blood and it seemed natural for him to do since he was always all into the stars and now he is responsible for whatever palace responsibilities, while Moonshade.... ??
What's sad to me is that Moonshade was always passionate about being a tanner, and then once started having her little existential crisis, she didn't have much of a passion for it at all. But what's really sad is that the passion hasn't been replaced... it's like she just got absorbed into the palace along with the sun folk. It wouldn't be so bad if she wasn't one of the central characters. The palace is so bloody porous, it just absorbs whatever, however, whenever, and it's main function seems to be sucking the life out of character story lines.

Because Moonshade had an existential crisis in the midst of a long bout of depression, it seems. When you're depressed, you want the pain to end, so withdrawing from the world and finding another Way did that for her.

I wouldn't mind it if Moonshade actually seemed happy. If she were learning to fly the palace, or shape things, or if we even saw her communing with the spirits, but she just seems to sit around in pretty dresses and look melancholically serene.

And also, all the talk she makes about shedding blood, but the Wolfriders are in the middle of their longest bout of peace since their time on thorny mountain

She is learning things, though. She's the one who told Windkin the Palace's aura is like a ball that reaches past the two moons, and that elf spirits aren't bound inside the Palace, for instance; they can go where the aura goes, which is another retcon. We're just not being told what else she's learning and experiencing.

t

Multi-Facets wrote:

We're just not being told what else she's learning and experiencing.

I think part of what she's learning is how to run the Palace, not just things like talking to the spirits it holds. In the OQ 20 we were told, "Everything from air to breathe from food to eat we took from .. the stars."

The elves don't have a grounding in science, either. I can imagine part of what Timmain is teaching is Science In Baby-Steps.

Tymber: I think I like Dre-Ahn because he's novel. He represents so much potential in that...who is he? Where does he come from? Is he some Go-Back who's been alone for a really long time, or does he come from a completely new tribe? He seems to fit well in the world, and he's just different enough to make him interesting to me.

Red-Head: Are we sure they're all in the Palace? Has anyone come other than the three strangers mentioned, and Dre-Ahn?

Tam wrote:

Tymber: I think I like Dre-Ahn because he's novel. He represents so much potential in that...who is he? Where does he come from? Is he some Go-Back who's been alone for a really long time, or does he come from a completely new tribe? He seems to fit well in the world, and he's just different enough to make him interesting to me.

So ... he's like Star Wars' Boba Fett? Doesn't say or do much, but everyone loves him?

Tymber wrote:

Tam wrote:

Tymber: I think I like Dre-Ahn because he's novel. He represents so much potential in that...who is he? Where does he come from? Is he some Go-Back who's been alone for a really long time, or does he come from a completely new tribe? He seems to fit well in the world, and he's just different enough to make him interesting to me.

So ... he's like Star Wars' Boba Fett? Doesn't say or do much, but everyone loves him?

Pretty much.

That's always what it's like with certain characters in Elfquest. What was there to like about One Eye? Nothing to like, nothing to dislike, imo. He was the most nondescript character in the entire series. Yet people love him. Some people had a brief obsession with Lutei-- a character whose face we have almost never seen.

I think what people like is that they have the chance to project onto a character who is basically a blank slate. He/she can be whatever the reader wants.

Lunakat wrote:

I think what people like is that they have the chance to project onto a character who is basically a blank slate. He/she can be whatever the reader wants.

Each time this topic about "obsessively loved unknown characters" comes up I've tried to find a long-wired explanation ... and skipped it. You've just expressed it in two sentences! Thank you, Lunakat.

Tam wrote:

Red-Head: Are we sure they're all in the Palace? Has anyone come other than the three strangers mentioned, and Dre-Ahn?

I suppose so. Just because we haven't seen them doesn't mean they aren't there.
Jarrah and Ingen managed to hide in Sorrow's End for more than 10.000 years without being spotted.

Redhead Ember wrote:

I suppose so. Just because we haven't seen them doesn't mean they aren't there.

That's my problem with this part of EQ. Insted of supposing to fill few gaps we seem to be supposed to suppose the story.
No, I don't think there a lots of other visitors hiding in the Palace. We would has got a glimpse at least (for attentive readers/viewers) or some more casually placed talk.

Quote :

Jarrah and Ingen managed to hide in Sorrow's End for more than 10.000 years without being spotted.

AFTER they were introduced and we knew about their existence! In this case it was speculation whether they are still alive or not ... not whether they exist at all.

Did anybody else find Dre-Ahn's singing just too "precious?" I feel like it was over-ascribed. Say that it evokes the spirit of the forest - fine. But blending so many different sounds and different kinds of sounds... what, has he shape-changed his vocal cords so they can do this? Because it just doesn't make sense to me.

[quote="Embala"]

Redhead Ember wrote:

Quote :

Jarrah and Ingen managed to hide in Sorrow's End for more than 10.000 years without being spotted.

AFTER they were introduced and we knew about their existence! In this case it was speculation whether they are still alive or not ... not whether they exist at all.

No kidding. You can try, as Wendy seems to be doing, to blame Rayek's attitude, but that doesn't hold up for me. Yeah, he never sought them out. I'd buy that. But that they were never there in the background? They couldn't be bothered to show up for the challenge of Head, Hand and Heart? Or when the Palace appeared in Sorrow's End, they didn't come see? They didn't feel the urge to say ANYTHING to Rayek during the celebration that followed?

If Rayek is "loveless" due to the kinks in his upbringing (as I maintain), then what are Jarrah and Ingen's excuses? (I'm really wondering here because we've never met a "loveless" elf who didn't have a backstory to go with it. Kahvi as raised by Two-Spear - nuff said. Winnowill literally went mad. Two-Edge has an alien blend of biology plus his mad mother drove him mad.)