Final Quest #11

Posts : 275 Join date : 2015-04-06

Miss Gillespie wrote:: When a Wolfrider, or any elf for the matter, hates a human s/he always has every right to do so,

Oh dear… do you mean, in every example we've seen they have had a good reason to do so? Or do you mean just on principle any elf who hates a human has the right to because of the original slaughter of the High Ones by the humans? The former statement I can get behind.

Actually, it occurs to me now, it doesn't really matter if the humans' attacks on the elves were and are and always will be totally unjustified. The fact is, given how violent humans can be to elves either spontaneously or in retaliation, isn't it just a dumb idea to provoke them in any way?

Basically Bearclaw was a POS chief, is the core of my thesis here.

Posts : 598 Join date : 2015-04-06

Deranged, sadistic, wife-beating, child-beating, subordinate-beating, alcoholic warmongering POS chief.

...who somehow still has old timers like Treestump and Strongbow defending him. Don't know whether I pity Strongbow and Stumpy for being stockholmed... or whether I wanna see them tried at The Hague alongside the Dictator. No wait, I do. String em all up!

Subject: Re: Final Quest #11 Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:08 pm

Can't help but thinking that the story about the human cub suddenly stopped being funny after SaBM. Especially for Treestump and his family...

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There seems - at least to me - to be certain similarities between the conversation Dart has with Mender in this issue: "What is 'Dart' was is ther to him?"
And the conversation he had with Kimo way back at the beginning of the Special: "It's more like I flicker, this way and that. If you ever see a steady glow, let me know."
Of course, being with Mender could be the steady glow Dart needed, but I hope it's more; simply getting a new lovemate seems to be a weak foundation to Shine Where You Love.

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Subject: Re: Final Quest #11 Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:33 pm

I always thought Yun and Mender had a really fun love mate relationship , was sort of sad to not see it anymore. I could see Kimo/Dart even though they were meant to be just close friends...they had a more solid relationship, and I could still see them being eventual lifemates.
Anyway, Mender seems (now, suddenly) taken with the idea of having a life mate, but I wonder why. He and Dart seem very 'established' in that shot in FQ and it felt a bit hollow to me... Although maybe a 3-mating would be cool, bring in another elf to bridge them or something. They just don't feel very compatible somehow to me, I'm not feeling the urgency of love with that union at all :/

Maybe Mender will extract Dart's soul name from him by force and just do a darker or something. That would certainly be interesting. I like the idea of Mender being a loose cannon emotionally, he's had his moments in the past for sure.

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Posts : 411 Join date : 2015-03-26

wingthing wrote:: Deranged, sadistic, wife-beating, child-beating, subordinate-beating, alcoholic warmongering POS chief.

...who somehow still has old timers like Treestump and Strongbow defending him. Don't know whether I pity Strongbow and Stumpy for being stockholmed... or whether I wanna see them tried at The Hague alongside the Dictator. No wait, I do. String em all up!

Strongbow probably didn't get the message that the best way to deal with the death of your only child is to attempt genocide twice against people who had nothing to do with it.

Posts : 598 Join date : 2015-04-06

kathleen3.0 wrote:

wingthing wrote:: Deranged, sadistic, wife-beating, child-beating, subordinate-beating, alcoholic warmongering POS chief.

...who somehow still has old timers like Treestump and Strongbow defending him. Don't know whether I pity Strongbow and Stumpy for being stockholmed... or whether I wanna see them tried at The Hague alongside the Dictator. No wait, I do. String em all up!

Strongbow probably didn't get the message that the best way to deal with the death of your only child is to attempt genocide twice against people who had nothing to do with it.

Well played!

Hey, I never claimed to be an impartial judge! Razz

Posts : 411 Join date : 2015-03-26

My eternal and bitter feud with wingthing aside, I think debate over the relationship between elves and humans, the portrayal of humans within elfquest, and Bearclaw's vices and virtues, all deserve their own thread, because they're cluttering up this one.

Posts : 625 Join date : 2015-04-25 Location : Shanghai

kathleen wrote:: I think debate over the relationship between elves and humans, the portrayal of humans within elfquest, and Bearclaw's vices and virtues, all deserve their own thread, because they're cluttering up this one.

Would this work: Humans!?

wingthing wrote:: Deranged, sadistic, wife-beating, child-beating, subordinate-beating, alcoholic warmongering POS chief.

The wife- and child beating part came very much later. It wasn't part of the narration in OQ, same with Rayek's parents. We can't blame characters for their attitude towards something/someone they weren't really part of.

Skywise (!) suggest to Cutter to hit Leetah to keep her from screaming (after the kidnapping)

Posts : 598 Join date : 2015-04-06

With all the retcons of post 1990s EQ, it's very tempting to make a official "degrees of canon" like Star Wars did. G-canon, S-canon, etc. I know EQ.com is already encouraging a Wendy/non-Wendy canon dichotomy, but I think we can refine that more. We could have OQ-canon - anything definitively stated in the Original Quest trumps later Wendy works, followed by NP (Non-Pini) canon, etc.

Of course, maybe I shouldn't be using Star Wars as an example, considering the staggering corporate retcons Disney has imposed. affraid

In actualy on-thread news - anyone else think Timmain looked more judgmental and disappointed than approving when Skywise said "let's take everyone with us"? I totally read it as "Oh, you poor unenlightened fool, this class-A banging has taught you nothing."

Posts : 625 Join date : 2015-04-25 Location : Shanghai

wingthing wrote:: With all the retcons of post 1990s EQ, it's very tempting to make a official "degrees of canon" like Star Wars did. G-canon, S-canon, etc. I know EQ.com is already encouraging a Wendy/non-Wendy canon dichotomy, but I think we can refine that more. We could have OQ-canon - anything definitively stated in the Original Quest trumps later Wendy works, followed by NP (Non-Pini) canon, etc.

I guess we all tend to ignore certain changes. Wendy isn't even the gold standard for her very own work

wingthing wrote:: "Oh, you poor unenlightened fool, this class-A banging has taught you nothing."

Subject: Re: Final Quest #11 Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:49 pm

wingthing wrote:: I totally read it as "Oh, you poor unenlightened fool, this class-A banging has taught you nothing."

I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read this. Pike Rolling

Posts : 1265 Join date : 2012-06-24

ErinC1978 wrote:

wingthing wrote:: I totally read it as "Oh, you poor unenlightened fool, this class-A banging has taught you nothing."

I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read this. Pike Rolling

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who read that scene exactly the same way Razz

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Subject: Re: Final Quest #11 Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:12 am

wingthing wrote:: "Oh, you poor unenlightened fool, this class-A banging has taught you nothing."

Reading that just made me spit out my vichyssoise.

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Subject: Re: Final Quest #11 Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:00 am

Zadzi wrote:: I sort of feel the same way about humans in EQ. It's not that they have to stop even being a threat but I find myself becoming increasingly bored with the Djunn Angry Angry Angrif storyline now.

Actually, that reminds me of another point readers have been quibbling about, asking why the Wavedancers don't just dive deep and wait the warships out.

The answer's simple: That never saved them before. Even in trying to avoid sailors, Wavedancers still died.

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Subject: Re: Final Quest #11 Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:11 am

I absolutely agree about Timmain's reaction to Skywise. She didn't answer him because she disagrees. I read her gesture of brushing his hair aside and leaving as conveying both fond affection and patronizing condescension. She knows why he is saying this. He is talking about Cutter. Timmain knows every elf should have the right to personal choice. Choice is all she talks about these days. But Skywise can't stand to leave Cutter. I wonder if it's any coincidence that Timmain and Cutter have their talk right after Timmain and Skywise?

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afro

Posts : 1265 Join date : 2012-06-24

Multi-Facets wrote:: Actually, that reminds me of another point readers have been quibbling about, asking why the Wavedancers don't just dive deep and wait the warships out.

The answer's simple: That never saved them before. Even in trying to avoid sailors, Wavedancers still died.

That was Ariel's doing... she snitched their location because Disney didn't want any competition

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Subject: Re: Final Quest #11 Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:08 am

Bwahaha.
Who was it that was talking about building some kind of coral defense with reefs? Don't ships end up crashing into them often?
Anyway, what the hell do the wave dancers even DO in EQ, besides looking pretty and fleeing? A couple of healers in there but that's it. The rest don't seem like they do much of anything, really, in terms of actual hunting, besides Krill being shown with a fishing spear.
I don't see magic users besides Snakeskin and his coral shaping thing.
Are they all going to hop into the palace in the next issue? I can't imagine another solution.

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Subject: Re: Final Quest #11 Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:06 am

There are quite a few magic users, but I had to go through each of the Wavedancer bios on the EQ site to remember them all. Longfin is a rockshaper, special in that she's the only elf I can think of to Recognize multiple elves in the modern timeline (whatever this crap in with Tammian doesn't count). Snakeskin's special in that he has two unrelated magical abilities. Redcrest's a plantshaper. Skimback's a healer. Surge and his crazy water powers. Wavecatcher's a self-shaper, which is also pretty special in that he and Kimo are the only self-shapers since Timmain.

But you're right, that's all they really do, stand around and look pretty. I really like them, because i really like mermaids and I really like elves and these are OMG MERMAID ELVES, but I wish Wendy didn't seem to have so much disdain for them. I would love to see more of their story. One of the bios...not even kidding: Pearl is a dead Wavedancer. That's it. I mean...what's the damn point? And most of the Wavedancer bios are only a few lines, it's sad. Suntop Uncomfortable

Subject: Re: Final Quest #11 Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:44 am

Guess I need to go read their bios! I never would've known so many had other powers. I knew about Skimback, Snakeskin, and Surge, but I don't recall seeing the others do much of anything else. I should go and reread the EQ Wavedancer series maybe?
Do you think Wendy really has disdain for them? I thought she loved them. Well, maybe not, considering she might be wiping a lot of them out soon. But I do regard them as a wasted opportunity in terms of storytelling / character exploration, which is a pity.

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Subject: Re: Final Quest #11 Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:54 am

I feel like she has a lot of bitterness towards them that reminds from the BMP Wavedancer days, plus the way they were depicted in the Reader's Collection stories. So many healers. @.@ I don't actually know if Longfin's powers are used in the stories...Redcrest's are used once, near the very beginning, I believe, as he tries to shape a hole into a boat. And Wavecatcher's in Forevergreen, so you won't see him in the other series.

Posts : 411 Join date : 2015-03-26

If you think about it, it's weird that more elves didn't turn to the ocean as a habitat, or even just live near it. Humans are surprisingly maritime creatures, because the ocean(or any water, really), provides abundance in the form of food that's actually relatively easy to gather, transportation, and a view, lol.

But that would have required more research than a generally discredited theory of human evolution.

Subject: Re: Final Quest #11 Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:26 am

Finally looked at it, the trainwreck gets bigger with every new book. One thing I remember...Wasn't Winnowill mentioned in the preview blurb of this book? Something about persueing her hearts desire? She isn't actually in the book, or is she?!
At least Oddbit gets her way...Personally I would think twice before letting Mender or any elf do my plastic surgery.
I like the circular theory somebody posted. Maybe at the end of this we will be at the beginning again. But in between, it's hard to care about these characters. It is like nothing is of consequence any more. It's hard to keep a story interesting if even death does not matter any more. Yeah, all the Wavedancers might die except for a few that the reader is supposed to care about but they will go to party in the Palace so what does it matter.
Timmain appears just plain evil, but somehow I doubt the writers intended her that way.

Posts : 598 Join date : 2015-04-06

Considering the Sunstream has already gotten the distress call in the final pages of ish 11, and considering how fast the Palace or its pods can get in gear (Teir's rescue) there is plenty of time to airlift all the Wavedancers to safety and/or blast the ear fleet into next week. Which means if all/most of the Wavedancers do die - and I think they will - it won't just be THEIR stupidity that's to blame.

Subject: Re: Final Quest #11 Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:25 pm

Remember during Wildhunt, when Ember had that little problem on her hands and asked Suntop to bring the palace and he was like, Yeah, looks like Skywise/Timmain took the palace out for a little spin... sorry, can't pick you up.
It's probably the same kind of thing.

...Or Skywise will be all out of it still, crashing a couple of pods into a mountain on his way to pick up the Wavedancers, thereby changing his name to Skyderp.

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Subject: Re: Final Quest #11 Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:48 pm

Hmm, the Djun's ships storyline had better deliver... Something. So much buildup and so much carefully moving certain characters out of the way (what is Reef doing at the meeting of chiefs anyway?). Not braying for blood or anything, but it's interesting how most Wavedancers that have character development are at the Palace. I think something will happen.

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