Final Quest #12

I think Windkin's wings are supposed to be stiff but foldable flaps. I think he folded them around his arms-- not that they are jelly-like. But.... here's the thing. The is so much telling and explanation going on to cover for things that don't on the surface make sense. No one ever had to explain Tyldak's wings, beyond "He is still an elf" and Winnowil's "These are the pictures of me making them-- look how sadistic I am!" With Windkin, he actually has to say "Look at my wings! Yes, they are still! This is how I fold them." It's so much wordage. If you can't "show, not tell" there is a problem with the story.

Strongbow has always been passive aggressive. Come on. The guy doesn't talk. He gets his point across, half the time, through sideways looks. Letting himself nearly die at the end of Book 4 was the most passive aggressive thing I can imagine. He spent a good portion of the Original Quest telling Cutter he would never live up to his father. He is a full on passive aggressive guy. It's in his character.

Skywise's reaction to Timmain was a little low key. If I were him, I'd be wondering why she's suddenly sick and weak and how to help her. She's the love of his life, after all, right? Because she's really Cutter? That he just glances at her and rushes off seems out of character for him. Remember how attentive he was toward Cutter in Book 2 when Cutter got sick? Or how he tried to help Aroree? This just doesn't seem like him.

But I think the whole issue was very superficial. It reads like a bad fanfic, frankly. I hate saying this, but it's true. The idea that Windkin and Aroree could scout out the entire forest in less than a day and confirm that Cutter isn't there. That nobody could track him or Filcher when this is what these elves do for a living?
The way everyone seems to stand around holding hands and staring at each other.  Again with the over-explanation... Do Ember and Sunstream really have to tell Timmain that Cutter is their dad and chief? Don't they think she knows?

Artwise-- the color is so bad. This isn't a case of a few "accidents"-- just overall terrible judgement. Wendy needs to stop hiring people that are her friends and start hiring people that can do the job. She should test out some colorists and hire the best one-- then fire Sonny as soon as possible. He's a nice guy, I'm sure-- but he can't really draw well and he colors like crap. So far, the most consistent color for skin has been a nice shade of grey. In this issue, he's coloring everyone as if they are on the same plane. I can't figure out the lighting. And the colors are just plain ugly.

The problem I'm having with the line-drawn art in this-- apart from the Cutter-Timmain and Timmain-Aurek scenes-- is that it feels like everyone is on the same plane. Just people standing around all together-- over and over and over again. People walking in a line. People standing shoulder to shoulder facing the same way. It's unnatural and bad staging. The drawings need more foreground, middle ground and background... but all that actually could have been saved with color. If Sonny had done anything to knock some characters back and bring some foreward-- create shading, whatever. But not only does he not do that-- I'm not even sure what time of day it is. And what's with that space scene? Since when is space orange? This is super lazy on his part.

Anyway.... I'm done. I wish it was better-- but it's just a comic book, I guess. I mean, maybe we are being too harsh and critical because we thought more of the story-- but in the end, it's a comic book. Lots of comic books don't have great art or have only a moderately good storyline or bad dialogue. '

I think everything that happened in this issue, once we accept that Cutter has just learned he is Timmain, makes sense. I have no problem with any of the events.I kind of like that Reef was caught in the halfway point of turning into a monster. I wonder if Rayek is going to cause trouble by "revealing" the existence of the Wavedancers to the Djun's men. Their strategy is clearly to hide, and he's in there now blasting things up. I wonder if Skywise (or the other Wolfriders) are drawing any parallels between when he went crazy and fell over a cliff and Cutter's current freak out?

Yes, Lunakat, the parallel with Skywise's past story where he went all feral and Cutter brought him back is exactly what I thought of when I read this. I guess it's on Skywise to an extent to bring Cutter back too now.

And btw - what you're saying about the dialogue is what I mean by in the increasingly annoying expository dialogue. Like Nightshade: We who are Cutter's Heart Circle must find him! And all the talk about what he is as chief etc.... it's just odd. They never talked like that before, wolfriders have always been more plainspoken yet straightforward, that was part of their charm. Now they've gotten overly wordy or something.
It's very... dare I say amateurish? I really feel this is happening because of the new readers.

As with Strongbow - yeah, you're right. As I was writing that, I was going, hmm. No, he's pretty passive aggressive. Like when he was telling Moonshade, Oh hey you just wanna hang out in this palace and talk to the dead instead of being a responsible mother etc.
I don't know why though, but the way he did that open send with the back turned made me giggle extra hard.

As for Skywise ... well, good lord, I'm still a bit gobsmacked that neither he nor Leetah know what the hell is going on, neither do Cutter's own kids. I mean, it just feels weird that they can't sense something more considering they all know his soul name. I know it's supposed to make you feel the pain of another, etc.. but I still wonder at how totally clueless they are.

Redeeming things in this issue: Timmain looking weak because it made her semi-relatable for once.
However, Aurek's statement of 'You've destroyed him' kind of chilled me. She kept saying that the 'time for revelation' was right. I'm sorry, it just sounds like a whole lot more vague, cryptic jabber. It's possibly related to the palace and leaving the WoTM but it still doesn't make sense.


Also, since no 'sophisticated' magic can bring him back, it's looking like Dr. Dre has an interest and might sing a tune which is maybe somehow 'magical' enough to lure Cutter out of wherever he is. I guess it's been implied he's hanging out with the trolls.

I guess maybe we are being too harsh or critical but I don't know. I mean, I am not a huge comic book reader but comic books can have very heft story lines. My favorite comic was - possibly still is - the Sandman, and that was pretty brutal and hard-hitting in terms of storyline. The artwork was passed through the hands of different artists constantly, so you always got a different 'take' on the main characters from the first issue. However, the storyline remained strong.
I realize EQ isn't all dark and totally serious all the time, but it still always had its own very unique identity, and now that feels like the identity's been really watered down. And I do find that very sad.

The thing is-- Wendy's writing used to be pretty strong. I mean.. it was always very earnest-- but it was so well done. Knowing how much more she is capable of makes this feel, probably, worse than it is.

I can understand why approaching Cutter with magic would be a bad idea-- but just having Sunstream pinpoint him then tell everyone so they can go there? What's wrong with that?

Sandman was one of my favorite comics as well. It has had some very good and very bad art. I feel, though, that that was part of the identity of the comic-- the variety.

Yeah- the fact that Skywise can't figure out some of what's going on is odd.. especially considering that he recognized Cutter and Timmain. It did seem both he and Leetah knew something was wrong.

I guess there's maybe the possibility that when Sunstream locates any elf he has to lock into their minds in a way? - and that might be a process that destroys Cutter. But I'm not really sure. I kind of looked at Sunstream more like a GPS system before, in that he senses elves location and doesn't communicate with them directly when he tracks them, just sort of senses them. Now, with this last issue, I have no idea. And it's kind of what's annoying, because this seems like a rather large 'detail'. Even sending a pod would operate under the same principle, wouldn't it? Just have it land in Cutter's vicinity. But maybe if he even sees anything magical he would go even more full-tilt freak mode .

Agree on everyone's initial reactions--this isn't great.

To me it feels very frenetic, and yet the ball never moves forward much (big exception being Timmain's revelation, of course). Like, in this issue, people are moving all over the planet. The world feels so small and flimsy now. Remember when Kahvi and Aroree had to go the New Land in KotBW? Littletrill dropped into the ocean of exhaustion, Aroree--who had to be one of the best floaters in Blue Mountain as one of the Chosen 8--wasn't going to make it without Tyldak's help. Yet now, Windkin and Rayek can fly there in three days carrying Venka and Ekuar. Easy Peasy! Why is Venka just leaving her tribe when she's the chief? No reason, just go with it.

She obviously still alive, clearly a flesh wound. I think it's implied the Winnowill is helping to wind Rayek up. I liked the detail of the old peeing fisherman wearing a Korafay totem--he even got her hair right! But seriously, why are the Djunmen on shore destroying their village. Just for kicks? Those people obviously don't have any loot, and it's a lot of work to get soldiers to and from the ships when their main objective is under the sea. I think there may have been some implication of primitive depth charges, but it seems more likely that the attack on the village and Rayek's freakout will somehow draw the Wavedancers out of hiding. Sigh.

Is Sunstream the worst lifemate/father ever? His lifemate and daughter's tribe is under siege from humans, and he just drops them off to deal with it?? "The humans have some super-scary new weapons, try not to die all at once, byeeeeee!" I can see him bringing Snakeskin back, and Korafay would probably insist on going too because she's spunky, but Reef? Brill? What's she going to do, sigh at them? Good think Reef turned out to be the Incredible Hulk of Elfquest. Also, I'm not familiar enough with the Wavedancer backstory, but wasn't Reef deformed by Winnowill? Is this a retcon, saying that he was actually shaping himself into some kind of soldier-monster?

Why exactly was there a Chiefs' council? Couldn't Tier and Ember just have come for a visit? There was literally no need for either Venka or Snakeskin to be there, storywise.

The writing is, indeed, bad--worse than usual, I'd say. That line of Timmain's: "Know this! Magic beyond a mortal Wolfrider's skill will not find him..." I had to read it at least 3 times because it barely makes sense. A mortal Wolfrider's skill is, literally, not magic. So wtf is she talking about? So convoluted, and I wish it were the exception instead of the rule. Agree that Wendy's writing used to be stronger. I also loved it's earnestness. It made it really valuable and unique, especially since everything these days is drowning in irony.

Dart and Mender--get to together, go apart, whatever. I have no attachment to this pairing and wish I did, especially since it's the first openly and exclusively same-sex pairing. The writing was so bad, I couldn't figure out who is going back to Ember's tribe and who is staying. Ember and Dart are staying, Mender's going, Chitter and....Teir are....going? Don't know, don't really care. Her tribe has no function at this point, and I really like some of those characters.

The last page is pretty compelling, I thought, although Skywise does not look much like himself. This is a really bold direction to go, basically exploding the hero of the piece--a triple-lutz of storytelling. I don't expect them to stick the landing, but the failure itself could well be spectacular. I'll give them credit, they're really going for something.

I agree that Strongbow has been very passive-aggressive in the past, but last issue it looked like he was about to pull-a-Cutter himself. His reaction in #12 seemed out of step with what came before.

Does it annoy anyone else that Wendy is so wedded to the FQ concept art she did over a decade ago that she makes the characters do costume changes to conform their outfits with the old art? It's just seems so unnecessary and artificial.

I didn't think Sunstream just dropped them off-- didn't he stay with them?

The basic problem of what's happening, I think, is that there is so much explanation and shuffling of characters together and apart and around to make the events make sense-- it's just feels artificial and forced. You shouldn't have to devote so much dialogue to characters explaining "why we can't do this" and "why we can't do that, even though it seems like it would be a solution..." and moving people around just to get them into position for the story. I think all of that should be seamless. The characters should do what makes sense-- and it should be clear why that isn't possible (if it isn't possible) without all the talk... and they should move from place to place for concrete reasons that are part of the plot-- rather than just "let's fly here! and let's fly there!" Because otherwise, it's too obvious, doesn't feel natural and ends up clunky... color issues aside.

- Blah blah blah man gets his cock/balls cut off, want revenge, is dead, sends people to murder others blah blah blah.
-What's up with the whole 'elf eyes so pale grey that they almost disappear into the white of the eyes'-thing.
-On the other hand I'm liking Cutter freaking out.
-Nightfall looks...odd on the last page. (Strangles weird Nightfall is Skyfire idea she had years ago)
-Reuse image, reuse, reuse.
-Poor pony.

"Sustained by the pod's shield, Sunstream steals final moments with his water-breathing loved ones." I read that as him leaving? I have no idea where he's going instead, though.

Also, apart from the clunky writing you already noted, Lunakat, the image of Windkin's wings winding up like "sleeves" around his arms seriously squicked me out. Just thinking about some super-fine skin fold wrapping around a limb is making feel a little queasy even as I type this...And like you say, why couldn't Wendy just show his wings wrapping in the background. It requires no explanation, really.

I despise the eye coloration issue you point out, Shadowpath, although the colorful irises are hardly better--the pupils are almost never black, just a darker shade. It's very distracting. Is this Sonny's coloring decision?

Nighfall has looked "odd" for almost 20 years. She used to be one of my favorite-looking Wolfriders, a little curvy and voluptuous, even around the face. Then she got very austere cheekbones and chin and started looking haggard. With the hair, she looks like a washed-up '80s pop-singer.

I've read #12 and I have to say: it made me laugh.
I was left with many questions after reading the preview and I hoped that the rest of the issue would explain a bit more about the situation... Maybe answer some of my questions. Instead, it's about the elfs not understanding it, either.  

I think Dart and Freetouch went with Mender to Whatever Holt. Makes sense to me; I think they are more useful there.
I love Dart and Menders cuddle. I was hoping to see that.

I agree that Strongbow is passive-agressive. I don't think this is the last word that's been said about their relationship. At least, if I were Moonshade I would want a real talk about it, after they've been together for so long, instead of just a childish comment. But I don't expect them to stay together.

I think Venka's reaction is mostly shock, because she's been hit by a strange weapon. It doesn't look like they hurt her that badly. And I don't think this will slow Rayek down at all... I'm looking forward to his reaction.

I don't care about the wavedancers, although Reef looks pretty cool as a monster.

Windkin's wings get even more ridiculous.

Both the art and the storytelling are the worst I have seen of Wendy   but I still like it more than the work of most of the other artists they had before, and I really want to know how it ends.
I fully agree on the eyes being ugly. Mender looks like he's blind most of the time.
And I agree on Nightfall, too. As Wisp said: I also liked her earlier design.

BTW My eldest daughter came hanging over my shoulder when I read it, so I ended up translating it for her while reading it for the first time myself.  
My youngest seems to like Korafay. I think it's the pretty hair.

Wisp wrote:

Nighfall has looked "odd" for almost 20 years.  She used to be one of my favorite-looking Wolfriders, a little curvy and voluptuous, even around the face.  Then she got very austere cheekbones and chin and started looking haggard.  With the hair, she looks like a washed-up '80s pop-singer.

Truth.
One thing I forgot to mention in my post: Hands.

Shadowpath wrote:

One thing I forgot to mention in my post: Hands.

You mean how they're often these really weird-looking abstract appendages?  What's wrong with that?

The last page got a chuckle from me from me for another reason.  Leetah has some new duds.  "My beloved lifemate is out of his mind, brandished a weapon at me, and ran away to who knows where.  This calls for...a costume change!"  At least she pretty much looks like herself.

I meant the hands Venka got in her last panel.

Yeah, what was up with that pony and Dr. Dre? That just looked really, really weird.


Nightfall maybe looks different because she's 'older'? But I don't know. She used to be a lot cuter. Well, they ALL did. maybe this is just an elves aging thing, they lost their elfin baby fat or whatever.


Maybe one of the reasons the story isn't working is because Wendy isn't listening to her characters anymore. I feel she used to listen to them. Now it's like they're being sacrificed as mouthpieces for plot.

I don't really mean to sound presumptuous. It's just how it feels to me sometimes.

I hadn't the chance to read FQ#12 so far and just react to the spoilers shared in the thread.

Wisp wrote:

Also, I'm not familiar enough with the Wavedancer backstory, but wasn't Reef deformed by Winnowill? Is this a retcon, saying that he was actually shaping himself into some kind of soldier-monster?

So Reef turns out to be like the Hulk somehow? IN CASE the events of the earlier Wavedancer comic are still (more or less) canon when it comes to Reef I may have an explanation.

Yes, Reef was shapchanged and mind-twisted by Winnowill after she was dropped on this small island by Tyldak.
This "old" Reef was a healer himself. I can imagine that Winnowill's attack and the later healing PLUS the influence of the Palace has triggered his own shapechanging powers. Unconscious tho - still tramatized like Reef is shown so far instincts easily take over when his people are attacked ... when his safety is destroyed again.
*shrug* Just a try to make sense of it. Good chance Wendy proves ne wrong. XD

Wisp wrote:

That line of Timmain's: "Know this! Magic beyond a mortal Wolfrider's skill will not find him..." I had to read it at least 3 times because it barely makes sense. A mortal Wolfrider's skill is, literally, not magic. So wtf is she talking about?

A mortal Wolfrider's skills ...
- Strongbow is an incredibly strong sender - he even impressed Winnowill.
- Redlance is a treeshaper
- Pool can "sense magic" ... a macical feeling that was explained to be similar to young Suntop.
- Mender is a strong healer.
Mortal Wolfriders' skills ... I's gather a search and rescue party. ^^
- add Scouter for his eye sight (which seems to be partly magical, too)
- Tyleet for her ability to pic up alien language
and some more for "simple" Wolfrider survival and fighting skills.

Wisp wrote:

The last page got a chuckle from me from me for another reason. Leetah has some new duds. "My beloved lifemate is out of his mind, brandished a weapon at me, and ran away to who knows where. This calls for...a costume change!" At least she pretty much looks like herself.

Women's way to deal with traumatic changes: eitehr a new hairdo or new duds.! Well, I was told it works this way ... ^^

Gaaaah why can't my not-so-local comic shop get the issue faster? (pouts)

Got my copy.  Somewhat to my (pleasant) surprise, I don't hate it.  I actually feel like things happened, which is new.  I do agree some of the wording is odd.  Why a "wolf-riders' sending range?"  Is it greater or lesser than a non-Wolfriders'?

I love seeing Rayek again.  Whee!  I really thought that Wendy brought him in for that .5 seconds just to explain why we were never, ever going to see him again and then get on with Cutter's story.  I love that little touch of "Ahnshen thought it would cheer you up."  Awww!  So sweet!  So nice that someone other than his daughter and foster-father bother to remember he exists - at least, beyond the "I hope he keeps Winnowill far away!" consideration - and tries to do something to keep his spirits lifted.

I think the panel where Cutter flees from Timmain should have been flipped - it looks like he runs before she even says anything.  Maybe that's what Wendy meant, I suppose, but I think it'd work better the other way around.

I get that Cutter's the "Chief of Chiefs" but, um, why would he care that Venka's been shot more than her own father, who is right there??

I don't think Strongbow's comment is necessarily passive-aggressive. What they had is gone. If they move on from here, they will be building a completely new relationship. He may even have meant it as a way to let her know he considers the matter done, that he's not going to cry and brood over it.

The last page says "Next: Rayek takes on the Djun's fleet." Oh. My.  I cannot WAIT to see this!

Wow.

This is George Lucas, prequel trilogy level failure. Final Quest definitely lends credence to the idea that the Pinis only had one really good story in them, and since then have been running on fumes. I mean, what a way to go out. Crash and burn. Genius or anything approaching it definitely is not consistent. The OQ is being cheapened by this story to some extent. What a shame. Maybe Jink mindwipes Cutter so that he'll forget that Wendy wrote and drew this story. I know I want her to mindwipe me.

What can I say beyond what has already been said? Agreed with everyone else on the quality of the writing, art, and coloring. In a multitude of ways it is approaching abysmal.

This is the first time I have ever read an issue of EQ and then halfway through, switched to skimming over dialogue just to get the pain over with. It is also the first time I have laughed out loud at the sheer absurdity of it all.

A few things that really stood out for me this issue:

Timmain/Cutter/Tam is so obviously a retcon that it hurts. It doesn't make sense. It cheapens both characters immensely. I feel quite confident in saying that if the Pinis claim that this was planned from the very beginning, they are lying. They decided on this in the 90's. That's all there is to it. And now they are hamfistedly trying to shoehorn everything that came before in, in order to make it all fit. They really think we're stupid.

Windkin's roll-up window blind wings are not only gross, they are completely ridiculous. I have no doubt that Wendy is reading this blog and our comments. She threw in an attempt to explain how his arm flaps "work" because of our questioning of it. Because they don't. make. sense.

Hulk-Reef was just jaw on the floor, is this really happening, level insanity. This is ElfQuest as envisioned by a ten year old boy. It's Teenage Mutant Ninja Elves. This was the point where I started laughing out loud while repeating "what the fuck?!"

I am officially done. What I will do is wait till 2018 when it's all wrapped up, then I'll head to the library or check online and gloss over the remaining 12 issues, just to find out what happened. But waiting every month with excitement for each new issue just isn't going to happen for me. I can't lie to myself about that. And although coming on here and bitching about each issue is kinda fun, it's also really sad for me. I have to weigh the benefits of doing so, and ultimately it's not really worth it for me. Thanks for the laughs, folks!

Though one major set of questions for me:

What possibilities is Timmain seeing that make this revelation worth the risk? Aurek thinks this may have destroyed Cutter and she says none of the other options were better.

And for heaven's sake, if she's trying to ensure their "swift and sure departure" then why, oh why, was she making all the other elves WALK to the Palace??

I'd guess it's either that 'THEY MUST LEARN THE LESSON OF PAIN'-thing she seems to subscribe to or she's not entirely...sane.
Or it's just bad writing.

Lunakat wrote:

"Don't jump the shark! Don't jump it! We're all on board!"

 Despair makes you creative! Myself, I just mindwipe what I don't care for...

Zadzi wrote:

As for Skywise ... well, good lord, I'm still a bit gobsmacked that neither he nor Leetah know what the hell is going on, neither do Cutter's own kids. I mean, it just feels weird that they can't sense something more considering they all know his soul name.

He must have closed himself up more that is usual, to protect himself (what is left of it...) That's how I understand Timmain here "I can no longer follow my wild wolfrider self..."

Quote :

But maybe if he even sees anything magical he would go even more full-tilt freak mode .

That's the way I read it: they must rescue him in a wolfrider way because he won't accept or trust anything else. If he knows they're using magic, he'll feel threatened and escape again.

Oh, about Timmain: she can feel!

Wisp wrote:

Remember when Kahvi and Aroree had to go the New Land in KotBW? (...) Yet now, Windkin and Rayek can fly there in three days carrying Venka and Ekuar.

Not to the new land. It's on the same land, they didn't have to cross the ocean.

Quote :

Dart and Mender--get to together, go apart, whatever.

But... No! I don't want them to be apart after only two comics! But wait... "Teir and his three tribemates..." So, Dart is going with him...? I need to know! For my sanity! XD
I agree, the way people are moving all over the place doesn't help getting into the story. Unity of time and place is important in storytelling.

I don't know if I like it or not. Need more time.

Sifra wrote:

I was left with many questions after reading the preview and I hoped that the rest of the issue would explain a bit more about the situation... Maybe answer some of my questions. Instead, it's about the elfs not understanding it, either.  

Ah ah yes! We're being lost on purpose, to feel what they feel.

Well, I've finally read it all… skimmed it all might be more truthful. I don't know if I have the heart for a more in-depth read, it's just such a joke. It feels like either Wendy thinks we're stupid or she really is giving us the finger.